Rape? It's the fault of the victims, say 50 per cent of women

hmmm....why don't we just pass laws to prohibit the fashion designers from putting these skimpy outfits into the market place all together??

ya know, I am sure there are plenty of women who notice their husband as they check out the lovely view as that pretty girl walks by in those sexy little outfits in the resturant. none of them follow her out of the building to jump her before she gets to the car. it's really a very rare occasion that one might do this. you'd think that is that little women in that sexy little outfit was that so darned irresistable they'd have scare tissue around their neck from forcing the links of their chains to break as they lunge for the door!! so, why do the fashion designers (mostly male I believe) come up with these sexy little outfits? why does society allow them to be on the market....

it's such a pretty little view and most of the men wouldn't want anything to happen to change that view!!! they'll just bring up the clothing issue when one of their members goes wild and lunges!!

Those statistics are absolute garbage. There is obviously no distinction being made between claims, convictions and false claims that turned out false. Western countries treat rape seriously which is why so many more claims would be reported and thus included in this survey.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


I'm not sure I agree with this.

I never reported my rape. Twenty years later, my parents STILL don't know what happened.

A few years ago I took a self defense course aimed at women. The majority of women there were rape survivors. I believe only 1 had actually reported it to the police for fear of stigma, shame, retaliation, etc. That 1 who did report it, they couldn't gather enough evidence to pursue the case. It was eventually "dropped."

If anything, those statistics are too low.

Correlation can still indicate a strong relationship between two factors and should not be discarded as "unreliable". What is the correlation between number of hours studied and test results? Studying hard does not cause good test scores but there is a strong correlation showing that those who do study thoroughly do better on tests than those who don't. Also, isn't it literally impossible to establish a cause-and-effect relationship for something like rape? Is it always done the same way by the same people for the same reasons using the same justifications? I think not.

reply to post by Dark Ghost

Agreed.

It seems to me there are two different arguments going on this thread.

1. Some men who rape do so because the woman intices them, whether through provocative dress or lewd behavior. Therefore, the woman bears partial responsibility for that rape.

2. Some men who rape do so because the woman intices them, whether through provocative dress or lewd behavior. However, each person must be held accountable for his/her own actions. The man is the sole guilty party with regards to the rape. But women need to be aware that certain behaviors may put them at more risk, and therefore be extra dilligent when engaging in those behaviors.

I agree with 2. Can't agree with 1.

All I want to point out, is that there was a surge in gang rapes in the NSW, VIC areas of Australia and they were racially prejudice as well. NO ONE can suggest that THOSE women & girls were 'responsible' or could have done anything differently. You can't just 'blanket' the whole thing with one particular attitude, that is insane.

Its almost as bad as the disgusting 'talking heads' of 'the secret' who suggest that people who die in unforeseeable natural disasters are to blame for their own deaths as they believed that it was possible for them to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you really think that theory through, 'the secret' promoters really are a sick bunch of [SNIP].

-B.M



Profanity removed

[edit on 18/2/10 by masqua]

Holy crow 1000 people polled? This means something! Oh wait...

[edit on 18-2-2010 by A-E-I-Owned-You]

Im reading these posts and I keep seeing "but what about the message shes giving out. what about the message." Because you wear a short dress that evening or a low cut top the message is "Im in the mood for rape!" ? Seriously?

Please tell me people, let alone, ATS members, dont feel that way. I have no hope for humanity when my neighbor thinks I deserve to be raped because I want to dress up.

Originally posted by riley
Apparently it's possible. I guess a woman could sodomise a man with objects.. or drug him and have intercourse. Man on man rape would happen more and I have heared stories of even hetero men having their drink spiked and being sodomised. I imagine that would be reported even less that female victim rapes (I wonder if people would accuse these men of asking for it like they do with women).

Oh, I guess I never thought about that. It does seem more likely that a homosexual man would rape a straight man, or another homosexual man. Wow, how incredibly embarrassing it would be for a heterosexual man to be raped by a homosexual man. Not to say it wouldn't be embarrassing for a homosexual to get raped by another homosexual. But I think a straight guy like myself would be incredibly embarrassed, and have some serious issues afterwards. Oh, and just to be clear, I am not homophobic.

Originally posted by riley
It seems the age group asked were teenage to early twenties.. I think its a shame the school system isn't bothering to educate young women on this issue as they are the most vulnerable. If they think not wearing a mini skirt will protect them from rape they'll be walking through life oblivious to real dangers of rape.

Ah, well that makes a little bit more sense. So, it could just be due to ignorance of the subject. You know, when I was in school, they taught the subject a tiny bit. However, they mostly showed videos that seemed to scare girls about rape, and not actually teach them practical concepts which could help them defend themselves, etc. And yeah, it isn't all clothes (or lack thereof) which entice a rapist to attack. As many members here have stated, it could be for a variety of reasons, like dominance or opportunistic.

Originally posted by riley
I have been thinking about this.. we all have many facets of ourselves we can express. I like to be elegant and girly sometimes.. like that jessica alba pic that was posted. It's natural to want to look certain ways. Sometimes I like to wear jeans with holes in them and old t-shirts. I think clothing has much more to do with communcation and self expression than it does sex. For people to think women wear short dresses purely to get layed devalues the complexities of her as a human being and reduces her to a fickle moron who's self worth is only sustained by male attention.

Well, that is true, indeed. I guess I was jumping to conclusions a bit on the idea that it was purely for sex. You're right, it has a lot to do with self-expression and the communication of it. Though, sometimes I think some women do dress that way purely for sexual attraction. Then again, I am a man and usually skimpy outfits will mostly garner sexual attention by me.
And obviously, even if they did purposely dress that way for sexual attention, that obviously doesn't mean they would want to have sex with some random dude. Let alone be raped.

Originally posted by riley
Amen.

One Love.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by Fangula]

Originally posted by Jess_Undefined
Im reading these posts and I keep seeing "but what about the message shes giving out. what about the message." Because you wear a short dress that evening or a low cut top the message is "Im in the mood for rape!" ? Seriously?

Please tell me people, let alone, ATS members, dont feel that way. I have no hope for humanity when my neighbor thinks I deserve to be raped because I want to dress up.

I don't believe anyone deserves to be raped, under any circumstances. I was wondering what questions can be asked of potential jury members before seating them. If we can be asked if we believe rape is always wrong, or if we can be asked if we have ever been sexually assaulted, then would we be excluded for answering 'yes'? Is it only people who may be thinking 'THAT would never happen to me! or 'A man would have to be insane to do that' that can become a member of the jury? Because more important than a poll is what is in the minds of a jury at a rape trial.

Thanks to everyone that contributed to this thread. I hope everyone that reads through this thread can take something out of it. Whether you agreed or disagreed with what was said, if something appeals to you and you can use it to improve your own life then that is a positive. A sensitive topic that is sure to stir up debate and controversy among members.

To be honest, I am emotionally exhausted from this thread. I do not feel I have anything more to contribute and anything further would just be falling on deaf ears. To see somebody move the thread back to square one after 33 pages input from so many members is very disheartening.

I wish everyone in this thread peace, security and happiness. Look after your families and friends. Stay positive but be cautious and reserved with your actions when you are around people you don't know.

/exit thread.

Originally posted by Jess_Undefined
Im reading these posts and I keep seeing "but what about the message shes giving out. what about the message." Because you wear a short dress that evening or a low cut top the message is "Im in the mood for rape!" ? Seriously?

Please tell me people, let alone, ATS members, dont feel that way. I have no hope for humanity when my neighbor thinks I deserve to be raped because I want to dress up.

Please go back through the thread and quote someone saying that you deserve to be raped. I'm sick of this strawman BS...always with no proof of the statement they are claiming people have said.


I hate discussing emotionally charged topics because people lose all logic. They mis-represent other peoples position and they use these logical leaps like "well if babies are raped and clothes had no role in that rape....then clothes have no role in any rape". Seriously people...if we want to discuss this seriously...shelf the emotion and be logical.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by OutKast Searcher]

Rape is not as people have mistakenly said in the past "a crime of violence",it is a crime that is violent ,but it is driven in most cases by a biological circumstance that frequently occurs in all men,it is called being horny.

If you are underdeveloped in all of the other areas of your life that cumulatively make you what we call normal,but your equipment works ,you are a severe danger to humanity.Man or woman,many boys are raped by women every year,the stats are equalling out in case no one noticed.

And if we dont tell the absolute unadultered truth we WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO CREATE A POSITIVE FUTURE.
So spare me the crap please,like it or lump it ,and I am male so I have experienced the male perspective only,but no MEANS NO.And it doesnt matter when or under what circumstances the NO HAPPENS.

Teach your sons that this is the way it is and always has been and always will be,tell your sons that the 60's was a terrible time for our North American culture.Tell them that if they cant seem to find a way to create or sustain meaningful relationships with young women that allow them to be active biologiclly,or to have a sex life,that it isnt all their fault,that they need to relearn how to communicate ,that they have to accept the future that the feminist movement of the 60's has given them,they dont have the power to turn back the REVOLUTION.Only the bra burners can turn the clock back and although if you read a little you will see a lot of these educated women REVERSING THEIR STANCES ON THE 60'S AND THE MOVEMENT.They are running out of time.Look at how many women in their later years in our culture who are feeling ripped off after bearing and raising children WHILE THEY WORKED AND SACRIFICED ALL OF THOSE TRUE FEMALE CHILD BEARING YEARS and experiences,for a paycheque.

Sorry to break the news to you but the chemical reactions,love ect.are caused by mother nature and the older you get the less these reactions dictate your life path,you CANT find these reactions with the same all consuming passion and drive that it takes TO PROPERLY CARE FOR AND SUPPORT CHILDREN when you are in your middle thirties and later on.Sorry,dont whine ,its the way it is.Yes ,you can fall in love when you are Eighty,Please stop whining.

So you see when we talk about crimes against humanity and why they happen and how we can stop them from occuring ,we have to be honest,HONEST.

No negotiating for the liberal minded "weak links"that seem to all be overeducated and seem to carry voices that speak for thousands every time they open their mouths.Do the math,fools,your mother wasnt burning her bra on a university campus in the 60's,THERE WAS she was suffering all of the terrible consequences along with you her children that this horrible period of history inflicted on our cultural foundation,this wasnt positive change in case no one is honest enough to simply state it, people are afraid to go there,kinda like you never really argued with your mom,you know there is no point,the problem is all these SUPPOSED TO BE MONS were unleashed on society to wreak havok by emotionally rapeing men at will and for sport.There was a disporportionaly WRONG result from these women changing their own personal roles in society.

All women were forced to change because of the loud mouths of a VERY FEW WOMEN with loud voices.

Ask the millions and millions that have had to suffer through the trauma of DIVORCE.The millions that listened to these atrocious lies for forty years!!!
How they feel about the future being left for their children,THEN IF YOU HAVE THE BALLS ASK THEM IF THEY HAPPENED TO BURN "THEIR "BRA DURING THE 60'S.

You know what I know ,a few big mouths changed an entire culture at the worst possible time in its history.

Personal change is personal change,and A REVOLUTION IS EXACTLY THAT "A REVOLUTION",check the definition.

These individuals and the corporate entities that GAINED FISCALLY THROUGH ENCOURAGING AND SUPPORTING OF THE ENSLAVEMENT OF OUR WOMEN THROUGH A DESIGNED AND IMPLEMENTED PLAN OF CULTURAL REVOLUTION need to be held responsible and in the name of history we need to start to tell the story as it really is.A cultural tragedy.

No means no,women require special treatment and need to be respected by men in a different way than men respect each other.

It can be no other way,its time to start to heal our women and I am afraid we need women and men strong enough to stand up to the twisted feministic loud voiced females and males who are continuing to support and celebrate this devestating period of our cultural history.


Remember that someone is gaining from sacrificing our women to this horrible future,who is it??Where is the money going?

Divorce has cost our culture TRILLIONS my friends not millions but TRILLIONS of dollars.These were dollars earned through the sweat and toil from parents who love their kids,why does the money disappear??Lawyers,courts,counsellers,drug and alcohol rehab for the damaged kids,mental health appointments for the adults,domestic violence like never seen before,poverty and lower standard of living for children who dont get a full education because they either quit school because of problems at home or they cant seem to make it to university when mom works two jobs and dad doesnt send a cheque,or only sends half.

Stop this lieing crap ok!!We know dam well when divorce happens that there is a permanebt fiscal disability forced upon the family,PERMANENT.

You cant deny what the 60's did to mour culture.

If you are still with me you should get it now,rape is a horrible crime ,and it isnt always motivated by violence or hormones,it is motivated by a lack of communication and a general lack of respect for the female gender,and you can just shut up and accept that the people responsible for this current state of affairs HAPPEN TO BE WOMENand the "smart"men who CONNED THEM INTO GIVING UP THEIR GIFT,THEIR WOMANHOOD during the 60's.

You see I am 41 and I am not afraid to hold the baby boomers accountable for their actions,no one likes to be judged,but if you have raised children as I have you will find that sooner or later your behaviour as a parent"no matter how perfect you thought it was"will be judged by your children,get over it already,ok?

But if no one speaks up then where will we find our solution?You think rape is the real problem?

If you want to stop the war going on today talk to the women,make them able to raise their children,men fight because their women and children are unhappy,so lets fix it,why are we using guns to fix this??The same reason women started a devestating cultural revolution during the 60's.

A lack of communication that is being taken advantage of by some pretty unscroupulous people,people that we all trust.The world sees the game now.
Laws created to protect the weak are bastardised into becoming tools of manipulation.

As a young mans societal role and related value is denegrated through the subversion of their historical and traditional, societal roles their self esteem begins to die.A male is mentally wired differently than a woman ,sorry you freaky feminists out there,we are different and all your whining wont change facts,thing are not and never will be EQUAL,equaility is a designed dynamic created to cause discord amongst humanity.

We are born equal and we die equal,everything in between is a matter of perspective.in other words whatever we personally think is the most important thing becomes the most important thing in our reality.

Sorry femenists but you are better designed to be mothers and wives,you cant have one without the other and expect loyalty from a male and mother nature who is the only entity strong enough to control females .SAYS SO.


Obviously women cant STOP having babies so they can become pretend men!!!Look what has happened to our birth rates!!

Execute the rapists,shut the femenists up and lets get our cultural stability back please.

reply to post by Ysterlong

I believe it is important to see that a rapist is an animal and it is not the sexy clothes or drunk babes that entice them to commit their sadistic acts. I believe the example of the rape of a baby or a frail old lady just proofs that fact.

Can you seriously not see the logical flaw in this argument? And let me make this clear, because I know someone will accuse me of this, rape of any kind is WRONG...rape of a baby...well there is no word that can accuratley describe the vileness of that crime.


But still...your argument is illogical.

HOW does this make sense. This is what your argument is saying.

Premise1: In rape cases that involve babies or old women, clothes play no role.

Premise2: ???

Conclusion: Clothes play no role in ANY rapes.


I don't see how anyone can get from your original statement to your conclusion.


I really don't expect an answer...I've asked this soooo many times on this thread...and it is just ignored.

Anyone can answer this if they want. Riley? Hotbakedtater? Anyone who agrees with this logic.


I'm really not interested in continuing a discussion where logical missteps like this are just generally accepted by those involved.

Can everyone see the logical misstep in this example

Premise: In car accidents where both cars are going the speed limit....speeding is not a factor.

Conclusion: Speeding is never a factor in any car accidents.


This whole baby rape proves clothes are never a factor is the EXACT SAME ILLOGICAL ARGUMENT.


So PLEASE...either attempt to show how this type of argument is in fact logical....or ADMIT that you are wrong in trying to use this type of argument.

reply to post by smyleegrl

2. Some men who rape do so because the woman intices them, whether through provocative dress or lewd behavior. However, each person must be held accountable for his/her own actions. The man is the sole guilty party with regards to the rape. But women need to be aware that certain behaviors may put them at more risk, and therefore be extra dilligent when engaging in those behaviors.

This is what I have been saying all along. Most of this thread is I, and others who have a similar view, have been attacked and misrepresented...and so we have to defend and reiterate our position over and over....only for it to be misrepresented AGAIN (usually by the same people)...and so the cycle continues.


Honestly...I'm getting tired of it. I live in reality...no matter ho.w much I would like to lie to myself to pretend we live in a perfect world...my LOGICAL mind will not allow me. But for some people...I guess that is easy to do (not you btw).

reply to post by one4all
Interesting bit of info in your profile, under things you dislike, and I quote: There is no such thing as negative communication hence no least favorite topic.

This from a guy who wants to silence the feminists. You might want to change your profile.

shut the femenists up

reply to post by one4all


I believe the feminist movement started in an effort to gain EQUALITY with men.

In other words, same representational vote in elections, same rights with regards to work force, etc.

Silencing half of the population, simply because you disagree with them, will not further our society.

We might as well shut up anyone claiming racism exists, too.