To define evil and discus the way it works.

reply to post by imans


You are confusing yourself with your own distortions, rambling on without a foundation to rest on, every other statement a contradiction of another.

Truely my friends the evil that you see is a part of you. Without darkness how would you know the light.

Love brothers and sisters, love in the very present moment.

Killing without a sufficient means for nourishment is wrong in the Bible, yet sacrificing animals for God is okay? Contradiction is true evil. By the way, excellent thread I enjoy essays which get to the bottom of the Human Emotion and Human Condition. What is evil? Well, your definition is close, but you must go deeper. Evil, is simply the contradiction of one's moral obligations (Or beliefs). In example:

I had sought out on a path of righteousness, to plant seeds and create a forest of trees to thrive and support life. After this journey and it's success, I had returned home knowing I had made a difference. Years later, I chopped every tree down in that forest and destroyed all life in the area and ecological habitat to achieve a greater wealth - I longed for a larger apartment, possibly oceanview.

Do you see the contradiction in moral obligation? Now we can go further, why did this contradiction occur? Well, there is a hole that may never be filled. That hole is greed. The ego stimulates this emotion and holsters it as a mechanism to reach self greatness. Greed is the mechanism behind evil. Whether it be for money or for the feeling of importance, whether it be the feeling of self gratification or pleasure- Greed is the gateway to contradiction, and contradiction is the tragedy of evil.

[edit on 16-2-2010 by Paradox.]

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
Socrates (in Plato's early work) argued that which we call evil is merely ignorance.

Ancient Greek philosophy was similar to what we today call Humanism.
At the core of both is the belief that lack of knowledge is the key to Man's folly and degredation and that increased knowledge will perfect Man.
A corollary of this involves the so-called Illuminati, who believe themselves alone to have achieved a level of knowledge or enlightenment, which perfects them.

Yet, empirical evidence clearly shows us that knowledge, educational, and/or IQ levels are not accurate predictors of the manifestation of acts, episodes, or stages of what is commonly labelled by society as "evil".

reply to post by ReelView


Anger comes from material things ?

I never get angry if I don't get what I want. Maybe I feel disapointment.

What can make me angry ? Probably if I see people acting like lunatics by believes or ideas that are idiot. At the most !

Can you give me an example of what you see as degrading ?

reply to post by Paradox.


I'll give you credit for your example of contradiction.

But I have to disagree on greed as the one true source for evil. I think greed isn't including all evil, just as there is evil around , not based on fear. I do think greed is on of the biggest contributors for evil.
It is for me like saying the world is black or white.

I do think a personal contradiction can be evil. However, not all contradiction is evil. One can change. As one gets older they usually get new and different ideas and oppinions on life. Experience and refection as it's catalysts. There can also be a need for change because of a disaster or disease, maybe just personal mayhem requires to alter life and oppinion.
I also don't see a contradiction being linked for the moral believes between others or what both sides reflect morality to each other. As a change or experience can totaly put some ones moral believes in a totaly different perspective. Which they probably were in the first place, contradicting with the others.

Your opening with,

Killing without a sufficient means for nourishment is wrong in the Bible, yet sacrificing animals for God is okay?

Puzzles me as you don't even spare a room for mass genocide.
Even more tho, you were the last I expected it from. Then again
I could be just imagening seeing a contradiction.

Cool of you to join in
And nice to hear the thread is going deep. I hoped it would be.

[edit on 17/2/10 by Sinter Klaas]

reply to post by pumpkinorange


Thank you for sharing.
I've been reading some on trans humanism but it really sounded like a dumb way to live by it. I'll have to refresh what I know about humanism tho. What I learned at school has been lost or thrown away.
I just can't come up of anything on it.

Yet, empirical evidence clearly shows us that knowledge, educational, and/or IQ levels are not accurate predictors of the manifestation of acts, episodes, or stages of what is commonly labelled by society as "evil".

You make me smile with this.
I believe I can say, The more intelligent we get, the more sinister and and monstrous our evil becomes.

Excellent. I have not seen or hear some one say it before

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


You have misunderstood slightly, I claim ego is the source of all evil. The ego stimulates the emotion of greed, which is just a way of expressing one's self. And you can flip the concept around, but that's different. What is evil to us may not be to others. If I had been morally obligated to murder my siblings, and in my culture I have grown up in it was looked upon as benevolence, and then had changed my mind in killing them, this would lead to my siblings feeling as if they were not worthy - this all hypothetical. This would be another example of "Evil." But, If I were to convince them that killing them would bring nothing for them but pain, suffering and death, and change their mind on the cultural moral beliefs of murder and then not kill them, this would then lead to an act of "Goodness."

[edit on 17-2-2010 by Paradox.]

reply to post by Paradox.


I kinda missed it, sorry !

You leave me with little more to say.
I think we both agree evil does not exist in it's current definitions people applies it to.
I think it's all part of being human. I choose to define evil as a real reaction caused by emotion and as you said it's the ego what makes man to act emotional. Hurting or harming the I a.k.a ego.

As long as there is the need for naming anything, evil. It is very real. IMO.

reply to post by Psychonaughty


you cannot try to justify your preachings wills by using another living to give a life to your assertions wills
saying that i am evil and forcing a label on my words to be of opposites, which obviously my words are of absolute life, and not even neutral positive balance of existing independant one
but anyway calling me evil dont make you justify darkness you want

love the concept of sources and you will be always the present futur, so not a point of grey even can be there

choosing to love brothers and sisters as a sense of light, is willing to assert light being a reality life of darkness
others are only yourself body living that you didnt ever realize, what is not existing at the maximum can hide his nonexistance behind things ways of lives interactions that he use superficially, but can never mean any right as living certainty real that is the essence of the word light, meaning clarity of a whole ground

what you cannot perceive light without darkness and shadows simultaneously present, is to what you never mean to be of clarity
and what you never mean to be of clarity is to what you mean to receive positive and never to be yourself source as positive moves realistically alive

reply to post by imans


I have not labeled you benevolent or the latter.

I simply ask for you to bring clarity to yourself, as I can barely clarify your "self".

Namaste.

Originally posted by Psychonaughty
reply to post by imans

 

You are confusing yourself with your own distortions, rambling on without a foundation to rest on, every other statement a contradiction of another.

Truely my friends the evil that you see is a part of you. Without darkness how would you know the light.

Love brothers and sisters, love in the very present moment.

your statement is that clarity, and your "self" only realize its reality that is how it is called self mister, because to you there is only one which is you

and that is why if you can deal superficially only with another as being another you are considered by all gods being a champ

so keep your "self" to your reality clarity and proove your darkness life by your "self" alone one

reply to post by imans


it is obvious that you mean to erase the presence of another to get anything from to be more living you instead
you cannot use the word self about another when you are typing that word

and when there is never any self other than yours to ever mention anything about its clarity
the clarity you get are abstract expressions of words use, labelling people of words say all the intentions of living you are with others

Ok people. This is it

What about the different ways of evil in socieity ?

Why do we not take responsibility, instead of blaming it on other causes ?

For example the economic crisis these days !
Loans and Mortgages .
Yes we are a cash cow. Yes we are being lied to and getting deceived !
So what !? we're there aren't we ? We can think for our self. Can we ?

The biggest problem IMO .
We let us being used. What are we gonna do about it ?

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


I starred and flagged you for a good effort, you held my interest for the entire post.
I don't know if there is a real evil, if there is I have yet to see it anywhere. I have seen a lot of minor evil, that plays within the hearts of men and women, and upon certain things that may or may not happen to one. Also, I see that again something that is taken out of context by Christians, for they so strongly want to believe in an Ultimate Author of Evil, Incarnate upon Earth, to bring about his kingdom and the end of the world. I keep explaining to them that we are the creators, and if we can create, then we can un-create too, so why therefore put up with such a creature anyway?

Well interesting takes on it ....
I do believe that satan is controlled by God (Or on a leash and is used by God for his purposes).

As far as being born evil ..I think it is in our nature to be born in a neutral position (Like someone else said earler) until we are taught good and evil by our parents and life and friends etc etc ...And of course it is satan (evil spirits) that are the ones who is controlling alot of parents by allowing them in through the evil thoughts and actions that they do which the children pick up and mimic in actions and deeds thereby passing that evil right on from generation to generation ....

I do believe that evil is certainly a spirit (well actually many spirits)and is a spirit that is real


A question though to all of you who thinks its really just an idea ...how do you explain an evil entity that literally shows up to attack someone ?

Seriously ...I never really believed satan (who is evil and is against God)or his angels could literally show up in our dimension without actually being in a human host until IT HAPPENED TO ME one night .
And I am not NUTS I dont have visions (dreams yes but not visions).
I dont do drugs ...and I do not have dimentia or anything like that .
And I was totally surprised to see an entity like the one I saw that tried to claw my eyes out .






[edit on 19-2-2010 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by autowrench


Thank you ! My second compliment ! I never even thought about it.
My gratitude is XXL.

I've seen your name passing by several times , posting. Your posts appealed to me. I think we share a few ideas on life.

If you are interested ? I recommend A thread From Paradox. I really enjoyed it.

I can tell you why christians act like they do.
In there religion they are overcoming a number of sin and high standards to live up to. To, IMO to mask their hippo criticality.
Why they tend to yell even louder ? Is because everything denying or ignoring of the bible is treated like so.
They believe there truth is the only truth.


peace !

Originally posted by Simplynoone

Seriously ...I never really believed satan (who is evil and is against God)or his angels could literally show up in our dimension without actually being in a human host until IT HAPPENED TO ME one night .
And I am not NUTS I dont have visions (dreams yes but not visions).
I dont do drugs ...and I do not have dimentia or anything like that .
And I was totally surprised to see an entity like the one I saw that tried to claw my eyes out .

Really? Really him, the real Satan himself? that what you are saying? I have a friend who is deep into Black Magick and Devil worship, right? He tells me that during a Golden Dawn ritual of High Magick he attempted to call up Satan into a Solomon triangle.
What he got, he reported, was Set, the Egyptian God of the Underworld. Who was really pissed off at being disturbed. And you are telling me this being came to your house just to attack you? Dude, is the Devil was after anyone, he would have come for me long ago. Let him come, I have something for him. and he will not like it either.

reply to post by autowrench




I dont know if it was him or not but it was horribly ugly and was a mass of something or other (like thick smog) with a face of a beast (a horrible looking creature)and hands with long fingernails on them for clawing my eyes out .
\
I am a Christian and was at the time this happened ..In fact I had prayed for my son in his room that night while he was asleep (he was a mixed up teen at the time) and I went to bed and this thing woke me up because he was breathing in my face and I felt his presence (as in something heavy above me) and when I opened my eyes he started to claw at me .At first all I could do was keep his claws out of my eyes with my arms and hands,then he went away as quick as he came .
I kid you not ..

I really did not believe in ghosts and seriously did not believe satan or evil angels could come here as themselves (although my Mom saw angels all the time in her room I have never even seen an angel) .

Originally posted by Simplynoone

I do believe that satan is controlled by God (Or on a leash and is used by God for his purposes).
Satan is viewed as one who tests us for God rather than one who works against God, and evil, as in the Christian denominations above, is a matter of choice.
The prophet Isaiah implied that God is ultimately responsible for everything including evil
You probably come closer to the truth then any christian.


As far as being born evil ..I think it is in our nature to be born in a neutral position
I think the moment you start making choices by yourself, they can be perceived as good or evil.

I do believe that evil is certainly a spirit (well actually many spirits)and is a spirit that is real
I can not disagree with you on this.

A question though to all of you who thinks its really just an idea ...how do you explain an evil entity that literally shows up to attack someone ? I have also experienced attacks from something dark and frightening.


Seriously ...I never really believed satan (who is evil and is against God)or his angels could literally show up in our dimension without actually being in a human host until IT HAPPENED TO ME one night .
If you feel like it I would like to hear about it ?

Thanks for sharing !

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Hi Sinter ..I posted about it above your last post ..I think we posted at teh same time ..

I think we actually learn right and wrong even from the womb from what we hear and of course watch as we grow up .
I was told when I got pregnant that I could talk to my baby and teach him things while he was in my tummy and so I did .I read to him and talked to him constantly .He learned it because he talked in complete sentences at 7 months old ..he was a straight A student in School and had a 180 IQ .
The School even said in kindergarten that he knew too much and was gonna get bored (she was right lol) And in 9th grade he quit and the School offered him graduation if he would spend another year there before quitting (he didnt do it because he didnt like School because it was too boreing for him lol).


When I was young I felt right from wrong instantly (at least since I was about three or so )without even being told something was wrong and I didnt grow up in a Christian household (Grew up in the wild in Alaska on an Island) .

I actually felt guilty for even having bad thoughts and no one told me or taught me bad thoughts were not good .
We didnt have alot of adult supervision and sure didnt have any major teaching of much of anything (except homeschool when we got old enough) when they were out fishing we pretty much took care of ourselves and prayed they would return .
Of course older cousins were babysitting but they were not much older than we were and didnt watch us at all lol .........................






[edit on 19-2-2010 by Simplynoone]