An Interesting Conversation Between A Student And Teacher

reply to post by john124

reply to post by m0r1arty


Yes, please do not see the evidence I speak of. What point would that serve you are already given to the powers that rule your fate and you have no doubt that you are right.

Can you reproduce procreation in the lab? If that not a function of life? Thanks for the idiot rant there buddy. I spent many years in your shoes, it is only by observation that I make my claim not by religion. To answer so fast only places you in the same arena as the bible thumpers.

If you really want to tell me I am wrong. Which I am open to. Then you must do a little homework. Otherwise its just hot air friend.



[edit on 2-2-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by Stanton Dowd
The conversation is just about playing with words.

It has absolutely no weight in proving the existence of a 'god'.

I think this video sheds more light on reality than your 'conversation'.

Ten questions every christian must answer.

Incidently the OP says that the student in the conversation went on to become a politician...

To me that says it all.

That is the silliest video I have seen yet. First off, WHY does the guy ask the question WHY when he really has no interest in hearing a reason why, and will call every answer a rationalization. It doesn't work to put out questions that you have already concluded there is no answer for:

1) Here are questions you must answer.
2) Any answer you come up with I will see as a rationalization.

That is just a preposterous exercise in anti-Christian propaganda posing as some kind of genuine series of questions.

There are very logical and rational answers to everything in that video, and I can tell you that the "answers" he puts forth, claiming that those are the answers that any intelligent Christian would give, well those are just silly also. The answers I would give are in no way even close to the ones he THINKS that Christians will give. He either talked with not-very-smart Christians, or he is just being manipulative and deceptive.

The more of these stupidly arcane propaganda videos I see, the more I'm getting motivated to take the time and put together my own video:

"10 answers to the 10 questions every Christian must answer... plus 10 questions that every atheist/scientist must answer..."

Originally posted by john124
reply to post by Mykahel

 

Man has never been able to duplicate or replicate anything as amazing and complex as God's creation.

We've cloned animals, will soon clone humans.
[edit on 2-2-2010 by john124]

That's a good one! You think that cloning is the same as creating? For your information, cloning is simply scientists tinkering with the mechanisms already in place. Sorry, but no creation there! I think that Mykahel meant that mankind has not been able to CREATE anything as amazing and complex as creation... as in constructing something from scratch. Triggering the biological reproduction system using artificial means does not qualify as creating anything.... sorry.

Originally posted by downisreallyup

Originally posted by stoneysauce
reply to post by tallcool1

 

I think a majority of us don't want to just sit on the couch playing playstation or hang out in mommy and daddy's basement mocking beliefs we don't understand

Why not? playing playstation hanging out with mommy and daddy is just as valid as anything else you do in life. Even Solomon recognized this when he said in Ecclesiastes that all in life is vanity.

It's quite an error to quote Solomon when you are only going to quote a small part of what he concluded from his Ecclesiastes experience. At the end of his experiment, he concluded:

Ecc. 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

It is clear from all that you wrote that you have a surface and cursory "understanding" of the Bible, which is really no understanding at all.

It is also very clear that 'fear god, and keep his commandments' in no way conflicts with playing playstation and hanging out with mommy and daddy. And, on the contrary, it seems that you have very little understanding of your own religious scriptures. I have yet to actually hear any kind of rebuttle that cite any of them. Even a dogma rebuttle would be an acceptable start. I'm all ears.

You think you can just read the Bible a little bit and then have an accurate understanding of it? Well, nothing could be further from the truth. I can tell you that every person I have ever met who made the types of Biblical claims that you make has always made critical fallacies and errors.

I'm all ears. Tell me these errors.

A partial "truth" is a whole lie, and when you make claims that are only partial, you don't do anyone a service... quite the opposite really.

Hmm, I dont recall a scripture to this effect. Are you yourself a prophet now?

And, please elaborate on what you are accusing me of lying about. And what claims did I make that are only partial? I made no partial claims and I told no lies.


[edit on 2-2-2010 by stoneysauce]

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by john124

 

reply to post by m0r1arty

 

Yes, please do not see the evidence I speak of. What point would that serve you are already given to the powers that rule your fate and you have no doubt that you are right.

You have provided no evidence.

Read this :

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

Can you reproduce procreation in the lab?

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Human eggs and sperm have been grown in the laboratory in research which could change the face of parenthood.

It paves the way for a cure for infertility and could help those left sterile by cancer treatment to have children who are biologically their own.

If that not a function of life?

Yes it's a function of life and we can also manipulate it.

Thanks for the idiot rant there buddy.I spent many years in your shoes, it is only by observation that I make my claim not by religion.

Well then you have your own personal experiences that provide you with an opinion, but no empirical evidence to prove any of it.

To answer so fast only places you in the same arena as the bible thumpers.

No, it means I'm intelligent and I can easily rebut ridiculous comments like yours.

I'm not quoting the bible or using faith either.

[edit on 2-2-2010 by john124]

I find it a good practice to avoid discussions about religion and politics. For the main reason that people are so ingrained with their beliefs, there is NOTHING that one can say to the other to change their mind, or even see your point of view. An atheist can argue with a christian for days on end, and the christian will never say, hey, you know what, you convinced me...you're right. There is no god after all! Conversely, the atheist will never say, wow, you're right, jesus is my savior and died for my sins. I must repent.

The same is true of political arguments, republican vs democrat etc. Its always just a long, heated, argument that get the people involved all pissed off with no resolution.

Am I saying that people are so blinded by faith or or their own narrow point of view that they refuse to be open-minded and even consider other possibilities? Not necessarily. Just in my experience these sorts of discussions are always fruitless and just get people riled up until the convo just sort of dies off. In rare cases they respecfully "agree to disagree", but more often than not they just call each other idiots

Originally posted by downisreallyup

That's a good one! You think that cloning is the same as creating?

Cloning isn't the same as creation, but this is:

www.scienceahead.com...

Venter, who is an absolute prick in person but an amazing scientist, successfully used basic organic components to create an entirely new genome capable of functioning and reproducing. This was couple with basic polysaccharides found in nature (and which can occure spontaneously in energetic environments). Once combined, you get a novel bacterium, the first artificial life ever created by man.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
It sure would be nice for the magical fairy god of the christians to exist.

Isnt it funny how in the bible people are always talking to god and seeing miracles.... but none of that exists today...

o right, its satans fault..... sigh.

It does exist today, I have seen things that defy scientific explanation.
you won't see any miracles with your eyes and mind closed though.


[edit on 2-2-2010 by antideceit]

reply to post by antideceit

you won't see any miricles with your eyes and mind closed though.

Most modern technologies would have been considered miracle acts hundreds of years ago.


[edit on 2-2-2010 by john124]

New idea.

What if darkness is actually light when it severely repressed!
Isn't that what happen to repressive people, they become dark.

It means there is no such thing like the true absence of light.

Well, this is confusing.

[edit on Tue, 2 Feb 10 by Jazzyguy]

Originally posted by Jazzyguy

Originally posted by YoungGod88
Actually light is darkness when it has nothing to reflect itself on

WRONG! Or at least not quite.
Light is darkness when it finally reflects on itself. I'm the testament of that. But then again, what do I know.

Also wrong. Light is the release of energy. Darkness is a quantitative assessment of the amount of energy being released.

[edit on 2/2/2010 by VneZonyDostupa]

reply to post by Jazzyguy


Total darkness is just the absence of photons of light emanating from a source as rays.

We could include all of the EM spectrum in this definition.

Partial darkness can be measured quantitatively as quanta's of energy.

Both total darkness and partial darkness can be described qualitatively as well without any quantity, so yes to that damn student the dark does bloody exist qualitatively.

[edit on 2-2-2010 by john124]

reply to post by john124


Withdrawn

And thats not a very good representaion of what I am trying to say. So i will remove it and replace when I have better way to describe my view


[edit on 2-2-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

look at yourselves and ask if God exists, look at the universe and the stars and space and ask if God exists. proof is all around u, focus your minds don't ask how something was made ask why it was made. your computer was made, the chair ur sitting on was made, even u where made, so what's so hard to understand that the tree in ur backyard was made. that tree is ten thousand more times complex than a computer. nothing in our reality happens without something creating it , building it, farming it etc. so why shoud the universe be any different.

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
Can you reproduce procreation in the lab?

Yes.

If that not a function of life?

The function of life is to eat, reproduce and die, that's an axiom.

Thanks for the idiot rant there buddy.I spent many years in your shoes, it is only by observation that I make my claim not by religion. To answer so fast only places you in the same arena as the bible thumpers.

Thanks for labelling me an idiot and then proceeding to answer quickly which, by your own definition, makes you in the same arena as 'bible thumpers' and me. Feel free to readjust your outlook on cataloguing people there if you don't like being stuck in there, I'll leave when you do.

As for having spent time in my shoes, if you are talking literally then please note that they are sandals at the moment. If you are speaking metaphorically then you don't know jack about me and you ain't got a foot to stand on when it comes to standing by that statement. I don't know you either, but I respect that boundary and would never presume to usurp you via undisclosed experience.

Your finger pointing avatar and confrontational stance with differing opinion though does reek of father issues. Whether that is true or not is none of my business - just letting you know how people could perceive you.

If you really want to tell me I am wrong. Which I am open to. Then you must do a little homework.

No part of me wants to tell you you are wrong. I want to educate you towards being more right. You can take care of the wrongness yourself, it's character building.

So in short, we can make life this takes it out of the realm of magic and into the realm of science.

Should we dismiss that existence is beautiful and it's origins or purpose is unknown to us - nay, that's where all the good questions lie.

-m0r

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by john124

 

Manipulation is not reproduction in any shape form or fashion. What is merited in the classroom should well include the possibility of planetary consciousness and intelligent design because a unified theory then becomes possible.

Read that damn source, we can make babies from lab sperm and lab eggs!

According to the laws of energy conservation life should be impossible, unless the force “life” that sets matter into motion to become life forms is omnipresent and simply ignored by your faith.

WHAT!!?? You simply do not understand the whole point of science. Energy conservation are not for hypothetical events, it's for what we observe in motion.

Where do you get these ideas from - probably some christian pseudo-science book? Leave the science to the scientists and scientists will leave the preaching to the preachers.

simply ignored by your faith.

Exactly proves my point that you don't understand science - it's not a friggin' religion.

[edit on 2-2-2010 by john124]

reply to post by john124


Im highly educated. I have spent more than 30 years in the classroom. You are mistaken if you think we can make human eggs or human sperm from scratch. Badly mistaken, or just straight lied to.



[edit on 2-2-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

So what's the point of this disrespectful argument?

He still couldn't prove that God exists.

Faith is nothing without wisdom.

BTW. You can observe the brain structure with a CT or MRI, and brain function with EEGs and PET scans. Guess they weren't available back then.

There is no instrument to observe God.

[edit on 2/2/2010 by mandrake]

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by john124

 

Im highly educated. I have spent more than 30 years in the classroom. You are mistaken if you think we can make human eggs from scratch or human sperm for that matter.

So you want humans to be able to create a new universe full of hydrogen gas, fuse it to make stars....... create planets with the necessary elements and then speed-evolve a creature.... all in the lab...... in order to show that a god isn't necessary. WTF!!!

We've manipulated genetics that a hundred years ago would have been called a miracle by religious believers.

Why don't you just show me why a god is necessary in the first place, instead of making ridiculous demands on the human race?

Life any life in its creation operates at overunity. Give me few minutes and I will show you why.

[edit on 2-2-2010 by Donkey_Dean]

Don't bother, I don't have the time for more nonsense.



[edit on 2-2-2010 by john124]

Originally posted by randomname
look at yourselves and ask if God exists, look at the universe and the stars and space and ask if God exists. proof is all around u, focus your minds don't ask how something was made ask why it was made. your computer was made, the chair ur sitting on was made, even u where made, so what's so hard to understand that the tree in ur backyard was made. that tree is ten thousand more times complex than a computer. nothing in our reality happens without something creating it , building it, farming it etc. so why shoud the universe be any different.

"You want your god to take responsiblity for the huge number of collapsing stars and imploding galaxies and destroyed universes and failed solar systems that have left us in the one corner of this petty solar system on the one planet that can support life SOME of the time on SOME of its surfaces? And you want a creator who FILLED this Earth with species since life began, 99% of which are extinct already? And this is some design, isn't it?"

~Christopher Hitchens