The Hitler Deception

I'm inclined to the idea that Hitler was a British spy, trained in England at the same school where Churchill and Stalin where class mates and friends. Hitler, a bastard Rothschild, was tortured/abused to form him into the reliable operative that he was. Millions of Jews did not die in the supposed Holocaust. In part, Germany's subjugation was a payback for Germany having supported the Vatican expulsion of the Jesuits in 1773. Not unlike the great depression in the US being payback for arresting the head of the Federal Reserve in Lincolns time after he threatened to created a depression if attempts where made to close the fed.

I've always intuitively known that Germans were brilliant and Hitler was justified in what he was doing. I think they were doing so well and they were so egotistical that it all got out of control. The rest of the world definitely feared Germany and felt the need to fight back. I also think the U.S. is in that position now. The world fears the U.S. and many groups want to topple America's supremacy.

reply to post by demonseed

The Hitler Deception

IMO, you appear to be agreeing with the obvious but then splitting hairs to justify it. It is rather pointless after that, no?

But in one large sense, you're right... it was the German nation, not Hitler alone, that bears the burden of a national sin... just as it was the Romans who crucified Christ as if there was no choice.

The problem is that in the end, the result is the same. The only time laying blame has ever saved a life is when it was attached to a lesson that was both learned an remembered.

Thanks

It is oft stated in academic and historical circles..." If Hitler had died in 1938, he would have gone down in history as one of the greatest statesmen to have ever lived."
Unfortunately, he did not die in 1938, and his ideas, ideals, and decisions led to one of the greatest slaughterfest in history, WWII.
However, he was directly responsible for the concepts of an interstate system, the Autobahn, which we copied as our own US interstate by former General and President Eisenhower. Hitler was the main impetus to the People's Car, the Volkswagon..had to carry 4 passengers at 60mph and get 35 mpg. Mnay of our own cars can't do that almost 75yrs later. He pushed for the developement of Jet Propulsion and developement, 2-3 stage rockets, pushed for Space Travel. Our own B-2 stealth bomber is based on prototypes found in 1945. Our spoace program, NASA, is based on technology he pushed and his scientist developed...aka Werner Von Braun.
How about battle tactics, weaponry, largest airborne invasion(Malta) up to that time, nuclear weapons and fuel, the developement of synthetic fuels from coal or liquid coal, we could go on.
But, he had evil intentions and was therefore, EVIL. Anytime you use a group of people or a race, or religion, or a lifestyle as the basis for persecution and elimination, you are morally and ethically evil. When you condone the wanton slaughter of millions with no remorse, you are evil. And yes, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Che ,are all included.
Back to your original point, Hitler and the Nazis were instumental in many things we benefit from now.
Quick illustration of your point politically. In 1983, I was in the Delta House and our fraternity was on the verge of collapse. Too many scholastic obstacles, and not enough members. So, while on summer break, I read "The War Hitler Won." It was about how he took over the systems...ie media, courts, parliment; to advance his motives. I wrote down a game plan for the fall and called an early chapter meeting before fall semester started.
I ran for the Chief Justice of Student Council and we concentrated all our votes and votes of our Lil'Siters and friends...since noone ever voted on campus, we easily won. I got to appoint 2 Assoc Justices...both Deltas. Any disciplinary actions from the college had to go through us, with a majority in power, no more trouble for late night parties...girls in house after hours, nada. We had to members run for editor of the school paper, we won Editor and took the press. One was also a photographer, we now got front page press for all events, and no negative coverage. We had members "volunteer" as mentors to the new students, we got first exposure to all freshmen and had them come up to the house for "socilals" and our membership increased. We had our entire chapter and lil' sisters help move in the freshmen during orientation and met the parents...so when they asked mom and dad can I join, they said "Oh, those nice boys that helped us move in, sure." The lil'siters met the freshmen girls and we had a house full of good looking 18-19 yr old women waiting to meet the freshmen guys...flies to the honey. We double our membership over night and by stats and number of members got off scholastic probation.
Long story short, Hitler's model for political power works.

Ok, i gotta put my two cents in here about people dissin on the Khan. Genghis khan was much more than a ruthless dictator. He took to the age of 50 to unite his small country of mongolia, then after that he conquered TWICE as much land as any other kingdom in history. AND he did it all with a total population of one million mongols, with only an army of 100,000. He crushed the hierarchy of all the countries he came across, yes. But he also openned the silk road, which began the openning up of all borders. Prior to Genghis khan, most countries knew ONLY their neighbors, with his conquest many things were accomplished.

First off, Islam was dominating the western world at the time, and was rapidly dispatching the christians...Khan crushed them specifically, and thanks to him we are not all muslim.

Secondly, khan opened trade through the world, and so cultures where exposed to many different ideologies and thoughts, which allowed the rennaisance to begin in europe as new ideas for art and science came in from other parts of the world. He combined the bell making technology of europe with the gunpowder technology from china to make the first cannon type weapons. He spread Chinese advanced medicine throughout the world exposing people to new effective ways to treat illness and disease. He also was one of the first rulers to sanctify the travel of teachers and doctors across the land, and to make them completely tax exempt.

He consolidated many of the nations we now know, which were mostly citi-states prior, and put his grandchildren on the thrones of all nations. among his grandchildren where the tzar of russia, the ilkhanate of the middle east, the moghuls of india, and the emperor of china (kublai khan). His mongols built the forbidden city, where the mongol rulers of china would be unobserved in their normal habits, as chinese were very ethnocentric. He also united all the lama's of tibet under one ruler, the water lama, which eventually became the dalai lama.

So we actually owe a lot to this great leader, brutal though he might have been, his rule ushered a lot of change and possibly benefit as well. He was like a cleansing fire that came through and destroyed all the old traditional entrenched hierarchies and allowed the nations of the world to redefine the roles of serfs and rulers, and ushered in a period of growth, learning, and enlightenment in the european rennaisance.

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
Our own B-2 stealth bomber is based on prototypes found in 1945.

Actually, it was not. It was based on Jack Northrop's work starting in the 30's
bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com...
and
en.wikipedia.org...

also "The team designing the B-2 Spirit obtained special security clearance to show their design to Jack Northrop, the man who had essentially invented the big-bomber flying wing. He was brought to the plant in 1980, and shown drawings and a scale model of what they proposed to build. It was apparently a very emotional moment for all concerned, and Northrop supposedly quipped that this must be why God had kept him alive for the past twenty years! He's shown below (center) with the heads of the B-2 design team.
Jack Northrop died in his sleep on February 18, 1981. He did not live to see the culmination of his 'flying wing' bomber, the B-2 Spirit, make its first public flight on July 17th, 1989."

You know I think I will kill this thread right now.

Jewish Bolsheviks Murdered 66 Million In Russia
YNET: At Least 20 Million Killed By Jewish Bolsheviks. ... We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible for in its various ...

www.rense.com/general77/bols.htm - Similar

reply to post by dereks


I stand corrected...love to learn new stuff. Thanks...by the way, were the prototypes we found in Germany, made of plywood and resisn, based on his design?

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
by the way, were the prototypes we found in Germany, made of plywood and resisn, based on his design?

Not really, the Horton Brothers
en.wikipedia.org...
www.nurflugel.com...

and also Alexander Lippisch
en.wikipedia.org...
www.nurflugel.com...

all worked seperately on similiar designs

There were others as well
www.nurflugel.com...

Certainly agree with you. History as we read in our books is actually the mythology. A society that doesn't know its real history is like an orphan. Hopefully, we'll soon learn about real events that happened in the past. And there would be many Hitlers added (for instance, the Spanish conquerors who destroyed Native American people & its rich civilization, or how European empires enslaved the whole world & destroyed most cultures, or even recently, what happened in Gaza for Muslims or in Sri Lanka for Tamils, etc. etc,)

reply to post by mopusvindictus


hitler was a military mastermind. and an excellent speaker and propagandist.

no, im not a neo-nazi or a supporter of hitler, but i think we are over looking one thing, and that is the difference between 'respecting' and 'liking' someone.

if Khan had airplanes and #, he would most likely have used them, and saying he dominated with horses is stupid.... try dominating with sword, club, spear.... arrow?

you dont know as much as you think you do about military tactics, if you say hitler was not at least adept at the war game.

Originally posted by demonseed
Please be advised: this thread may piss you off. If it does, you probably wont get it.




The hitler youth was voluntary and 70% of the army had their children enlisted as well. George W. Bush has a 30% apporval rating. So, theoritically speaking, Hitler was actually a better political figure when posed against George Bush.

Except that the Nazis never won a majority of the german vote even in their heydays. And the Hitler Youth was not voluntary; at least not de facto after 1939.



Most history books simply say Hitler marched on and killed his rivals and took over the country's parliment.

I never read that in any of the many books I read about this topic.


Well, theoritically yes. The parliment has troops stationed everywhere, roughly a few hundred. Hitler marched into the parliment building with thousands of followers. Many armed. Germany did not have a 2nd amendment(which is partly why rounding up jews was so easy for them, remember that when hearing about current events) so these people went out of their way knowing they might die to fight for hitler's cause. They marched in, a few shots where fired but the majority of the standing army fled because they where overrun. Hitler did not go through the political process, yes, but he certainly did not take over and entire country with a maniacal ragtag underground skinhead club. he had the country at his fingertips.

Uhm.. Either it's the drugs I took or you are confusing the Beer Hall Putsch with the Reichstag Fire? Or something like that? As far as I know the Nazis did most decidedly never storm the Reichstag - der was no need to after the fire and the Ermächtigungsgesetz.

As mentioned, Hitlers approval ratings where through the roof. Germany doesn't like to admit it, but they believed his propaganda.

Sure, Germans were sympathetic towards him. But his numbers - I guess you mean the NSDAP's never were through the roof; they took over power and shut down democracy as soon as they had gathered a significant portion of the german vote. After the fire they didn't need any approval anymore.


But I guess I can agree with the general premise of this thread - that Hitler should be demystified...

I read a lot of history and I concur. He's just playing the part of the leader. I'm no fan of the man, but he was one interesting individual. I wish I could get in his mind one day, which sounds bad albeit, but I like to know what people think. He was a conspiracy person. He would've been a good ruler.. besides the killing of millions by his army, perscution, tendecy of wars.. and that stuff lol #ed up man but interesting

Marcus Aurelius, throughout his life, displayed characteristics of the philosopher king Plato theorized in his Republic generations prior. The philosopher king was to be a man of great integrity--powerful and unwilling to put up with nonsense, yet altruistic and intimate with his people--but at the same time a man of unparalleled wisdom and intelligence. The idea, quite obviously, was that only a small percentage of mankind is fit for rule. The ideal leader, therefore, will be the possessor of all just and virtuous traits, and he will stand above all others in his virtue.

Good and evil are, of course, human constructs. When the hawk eats the field mouse, is not he evil as well? He has inflicted pain, suffering--indeed, even death--on another creature. Or was the mouse simply dinner?

We should not have to worry about good and evil: simply live in accordance with nature and it will take care of such things.

Originally posted by EraofAnarchy
Hitler was an awesome man til Gobells drove him crazy.

You mean til Prescott Bush drove him crazy?

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
It is oft stated in academic and historical circles..." If Hitler had died in 1938, he would have gone down in history as one of the greatest statesmen to have ever lived."

That's something I have never read, and I highly doubt any serious scholar would entertain such notions. Might be that at the time that was the perception, but people back then couldn't see through the farce.


However, he was directly responsible for the concepts of an interstate system, the Autobahn, which we copied as our own US interstate by former General and President Eisenhower.

While he gave the impetus for building the Autobahn, it was Todt who built and organised it. The idea for a Reichsautobahn was as old as WW1 and was already widely discussed and accepted in the 20's by people like Hugo Stinnes - that's where Hitler picked up the idea in 1924.
As for the Autobahn being succesfull or copied in America: Both are somewhat untrue. While the Autobahn was a success (it got built), the conditions for the laborors, their pay, and the timescale given for ending the construction program made the project a horror for everyone who participated in building it. Many workers were injured and had to live on a pittance from there on - there was no just compensation or reward for ruining your health for the Führer. Long story short: It was a gigantic project created by cheating common laborors and treating them like slaves.
While the US-ISH-System did get inspired by the Autobahn, the US paid the people who built it a living wage and didn't force them to ruin their health just to finish the project on time. (American planing was more realistic, more humane.)




Hitler was the main impetus to the People's Car, the Volkswagon..had to carry 4 passengers at 60mph and get 35 mpg. Mnay of our own cars can't do that almost 75yrs later.

While this particular Volksprodukt was Hitlers idea, it was completely unrealistic and unobtainable. The goal of producing a car for 1000 RM was never achieved and even if it had 1000 RM was way beyond what the average worker in germany could have paid. Also, the KdF-Wagen was to be made cheap by importing american production methods (Fordism) - something that only happened after the war and explains most of VW's success in that time.

He pushed for the developement of Jet Propulsion and developement, 2-3 stage rockets, pushed for Space Travel.

Hitler was very reluctant about the V-programs and if they would not have hidden it from him in the early stages he would have killed the program. Only in 1943, when the german illusions began to fall did hitlers consultants push him to throw in his cards for the V-project; with great success, achieving mass production etc - but way to late and to minimal to have a play in the outcome of the war. Also don't forget that this isn't very modern technology. The theoretical physics underlying Rocketry were 50+ years old, it was a question of good engineering, not of making ground-braking theoretical discoveries. In engineering, they weren't all that bad.

Our own B-2 stealth bomber is based on prototypes found in 1945. Our spoace program, NASA, is based on technology he pushed and his scientist developed...aka Werner Von Braun.

The b-2 isn't based on the Horton Nurflügler. Hitler did not once give a technical input to the rocket program. If you wanna praise someone for the V-2, praise the german school system of the 20's.

How about battle tactics, weaponry, largest airborne invasion(Malta) up to that time, nuclear weapons and fuel, the developement of synthetic fuels from coal or liquid coal, we could go on.

Hitler was catastrophic with tactics. He had no formal training and risked and wasted millions of lives. Malta was bold, agreed. No nuclear weapons. Synthetic fuels was a great idea but completly unrealistic and not decisive for the war effort. Conceptually, that was a game changer, but since synfuel was so expensive they still relied on

In a way the Allies were responsible for what happened in Germany after World War I. If the Treaty of Versailles didn't break and humiliate Germany so much the country might not have re-armed so quickly or been so bent on wreaking revenge on their conquerors.

The Weimar Republic, which was formed in Germany after the war, had arguably one of the best constitutions in history and should have become one of the most successful governments in the world.

The people of Germany, however, were plunged into massive inflation followed by deep depression. Their currency was inflated so much they could no longer buy food from other countries, or many other necessities. Their agriculture and their factories had been almost entirely destroyed. In addition, because of the Treaty they had to give up all their colonies, pay enormous reparations to their conquerors, and in all ways became impoverished and, they felt, humiliated. Add to that the belief of many Germans that their country had become morally decadent and degenerate.

In short, the country was ripe for a "strong man" to arise and lead them back to their former glory, or what they believed was their rightful position as a world power. Hitler appeared to many as the savior they needed and desired.

Many later woke up to the reality of their insane leader and what was happening to their country, but by then they were afraid to oppose the reigning regime.