The Ten Commandments: practical faith or hypocrisy?

The Ten Commandments:

Much of what I see on religious vs. secular rights in the USA has to do with some group trying to remove a historic monument of the Ten Commandments in public space.
I have no problem with them, unlike atheist groups like the ACLU.
Many modern fundamentalists even claim that Jesus changed nothing about the OT Law of Moses (except for monogamy, constraining divorce to "fornication", priests, animal sacrifice and so forth...). Well I watched TBN for the usual laugh, only to be shocked when missionaries were shown a methodology of "salvation" by manipulating selected people into confessing how they fell short of the Ten Commandments in Exodus!
It made me consider some of these "Commandments" again:
- Worship the Lord your God - so, what about worshipping a Trinity?
- Keep the Sabbath holy - the modern Sabbath is from pagan sun-worship, and does not correspond to the Hebrew sunset-to-sunrise Sabbath of "Friday sunset" to "Saturday sunset".
- Honour (obey) your parents - even when they turn on each other? Even when they are Satanists? Jesus had a different take and denied his own mother, and said he would turn fathers and sons against each other with a holy sword (Matt 10:34-39).
- though shalt not kill - laughable, even after Moses brings the commandements he orders the Levites to slaughter thousands who worshipped the golden calf. Great, so let's ban the military, the police and animal slaughter. Never mind the subsequent genocide against the Canaanites.
- though shalt not commit adultery - so many straight and gay Christian scandals of note, never mind re-married "Christians" living in constant adultery, "ha, ha, ha" (ho, ho, ho) is all one can say. When this was written men practised polygamy and concubinage, there was no reason to "borrow" another wife without permission.
- make no graven images of ANYTHING on heaven or earth - Iconoclasm and an end to representative art?
- thou shalt not lie - yes Benny Hinn and others, that includes making false prophesies, such as that Jesus will appear on your stage, that Christ will appear in a Muslim country to save them, or that Fidel Castro will die and all gays will be destroyed by fire in in the 1990s. It also includes scamming people with excorcisms and false healings, or starting a war on phony pretexts.

I mean why teach it to children when it is no longer contextualized and honest? Why use these non-practiced "Commandments" to guilt-trip people into Christianity? Why claim they are the foundation of Western civilization?


[edit on 19-1-2010 by halfoldman]

I think the commandments are more guidelines than anything else. I personally agree with their message, but the "practitioners" of such messages are the hypocrites.

It's continuously taught to children because parent's like to live their lives through their offspring, and want them to be as they are, or how they'd like to be, or what they think is right.. without any regard to the child's freedom to choose what they want.

It's also continuously taught as you said, to guilt trip people and keep them in check.

reply to post by Kevinquisitor

It also surprises me that the worst excesses of punishment, like stoning or sanctions against representative art in the Muslim countries are placed on these commandments. And yet Christianity wants them too, but somehow totally differently to the religion they are at odds with.
So how can two different faiths come to such different results?

reply to post by halfoldman

Well, if one is not willing to lie, I suppose one limits one's career choices. Or not?
I suppose it rules out running for office or becoming a weather-forecaster on TV, for example.



[edit on 19-1-2010 by halfoldman]

The important thing about religion, IMO, is to separate the notion "following a religion" (i.e. believing in its teachings) and "practicing a religion" (being a member of a church or other crime syndicate).

the need to believe in something above us is intrinsic to all humans, it is a terrible and terrifying realization if YOU are the pinnacle of whatever creation. Who will you turn to for help when you are beyond help from your own kind's abilities? Who or what will "console" you in the prospect of your death (the common debt as one has put it)?

The formation of religious institutes has little, if any, to do with fulfilling such needs or providing such answers. They are there to exploit this basic need, to profit of it (have you seen an impoverished church, ever?), to controls its followers for its own purposes (usually to intensify its authority and influence and wealth - after all they are all in it for the money!). There are, once in a blue moon, individuals that break this pattern (St Francis of Assisi comes to mind, Mother Theressa too), only to be the "exception that justifies the rule".

Ever seen a Catholic not wrought by guilt? Really? A DEVOUT Catholic? Guilt is a powerful means to control people who are kept in the dark on purpose and are force-fed only those bits of knowledge necessary to understand the "teaching" and carry on with their lives. Lo and behold if someone starts asking questions, about either the "scriptures" or the "church" (Capital sin in most if not all cases). Stakes are in place, fires are burning and Hell on Earth is unleashed - all these by those that profess to work in the name of the God that is Love and forgiveness? You asked about hypocrisy, can it get more hypocritical than this?

You forgot one question asked by Jesus himself, a question that most priests would prefer he never had asked: "One can either serve God or Gold, one cannot serve both. So, YOU decide which one you serve!" (not an exact quote and not a question per se but it makes me think... )

P.S. Written on a wall somewhere in Greece, circa mid-80's, was this: "I want to see the Second Coming, to see the absolute FEAR in the eyes of ALL priests". I think we are not as dumb as they want us to be, aye?

Every time I read the Ten Commandments, I'm reminded of that old "don't think of an elephant" trick. A good portion of the Commandments are commandments against wrong thought.

Unfortunately, if you remind someone they're not supposed to think of something, they'll immediately think of it. I personally don't covet any of my neighbor's goods, but if you tell me not to, I'm pretty much always going to think about what my neighbor has that I might want.

Not have any other gods before the Big God, himself? Really? What other gods are there, and what do they have to offer that God is so worried about the competition? I can't help thinking that way.

So as rules to live by, the Ten Commandments do a lousy job. And when you think about it, if they were so great, you'd think that after many thousands of years they would have caught on by now.

reply to post by halfoldman


The thing about the commandments is that Jesus even says that we all fall short of perfection in the eyes of God If we we are truly sorry and understand what went wrong the sins will be forgiven. You must realize your
mistake and try your best to avoid it in the future.

The 10 commandments are only a dot of sand on a beach. There are a lot more
we must do to achieve perfection. The 10 commandments are the foundation to the building. You must also take into consideration the 7 Cardinal sins which are wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony.

If you could review each person's thoughts you will understand that every person is a sinner. We are weak individuals, so all we could do is live the best we can and approach things with an open heart.

Originally posted by 2000 Yards

Not have any other gods before the Big God, himself? Really? What other gods are there, and what do they have to offer that God is so worried about the competition? I can't help thinking that way.

You should actually read the book of Enoch. He was one of the greatest prophets. The gist of it is that the fallen watchers came down and taught us
to use swords, chants, and advanced our society faster then we should have evolved. As a result they corrupted us and well, that's when the story of Noah began.

It is a really good read but for some reason they kept these teaching out of the Bible. Enoch was mentioned in Genesis and other parts, but his writings left out.

Book of Enoch

Congratulations on once again showing the double standards and hypocrisy of organised religion.

Just like a cult "love bombing" is their most powerful tool, claiming not to fight but knowing full well that their followers will.

It's much easier to be the "good guy" when you don't need to tell your followers to kill.

reply to post by Occy Anonymous

You know thinking about that on another level just reminds me on how Blair and George W Bush lied. And the latter did it with this wierd expression, almost like he was amused that anyone could believe what he was saying!
I suppose like children, "patriots" want their children to grow up with their Presidents as an ideal, which is why we have stories like George Washington (in the US) and the cherry tree. Not lying is moral and noble, and yet a whole generation are teaching their kids now that "the zoo has an African lion, and the White House has a lying African".
I mean shouldn't kids rather be warned that all power is made of lies?

[edit on 19-1-2010 by halfoldman]

reply to post by Equinox99

The thing about the commandments is that Jesus even says that we all fall short of perfection in the eyes of God If we we are truly sorry and understand what went wrong the sins will be forgiven. You must realize your
mistake and try your best to avoid it in the future.

Well, didn't Jesus change the rules of the game simply because the original God worshiped by the Jews never left such a loophole? Then again, didn't God say his original covenant was unchanging only then to have Jesus say that was complete BS?

reply to post by halfoldman

Despite my reservations, I enjoy my wider culture, so it upsets when I read on the following Alabama case, and it was also a similar issue in Georgia:
www.aclu.org...
I mean why, aren't there other problems to attend to?

[edit on 20-1-2010 by halfoldman]

reply to post by halfoldman


Good topic, sure they can still teach it honestly...with sub headers like for instance, "thou shalt not commit adultery...unless you're a man, than it's perfectly acceptable because women are inferior to us and our Lord"...That would be the correct way to teach it honestly...because that's the way the christians follow it, oh and for all ten the subheader would be "except for me, because it's totally acceptable for me (Us) to be hipocrits."



At least they'd be being honest if they taught it like that...Yeah I am Not a Christian obviously, As I am female. I am not subservient to anyone.

[edit on 20-1-2010 by ldyserenity]

If you have ever broken any of the Ten Commandments, you deserve to die.
That's the law.
If you don't like that, don't support the law.
Did you come out of Egypt into the promised land given as a covenant to your Father, Abraham?
If not, you are under no obligation to follow the Law of Sinai.
If your tribe is not covenanted to Israel, then you are excluded from the promises, so keeping the Law will do you no good.
Salvation is apart from the Law, or so says the Apostle Paul.
Salvation comes by grace through the acts of God, in turn done through His son, Jesus, the Christ.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
If you have ever broken any of the Ten Commandments, you deserve to die.
That's the law.

Ok I support it, so should I kill the lyin cheating idiot in my life now or later?

reply to post by halfoldman

Ten Commandments

EX 34:10 Then the LORD said: "I am making a covenant with you. Before all your people I will do wonders never before done in any nation in all the world. The people you live among will see how awesome is the work that I, the LORD, will do for you. 11 Obey what I command you today. I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. 12 Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you.
1
13 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles. 14 Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.
2
EX 34:15 "Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. 16 And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same.
3
EX 34:17 "Do not make cast idols.
4
EX 34:18 "Celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Abib, for in that month you came out of Egypt.
5
EX 34:19 "The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock. 20 Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons.
"No one is to appear before me empty-handed.
6
EX 34:21 "Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.
7
EX 34:22 "Celebrate the Feast of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the turn of the year. 23 Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Sovereign LORD, the God of Israel. 24 I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your territory, and no one will covet your land when you go up three times each year to appear before the LORD your God.
8
EX 34:25 "Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Feast remain until morning.
9
EX 34:26 "Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the LORD your God.
10
"Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk."

EX 34:27 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." 28 Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant--the Ten Commandments.

I thought these were the Ten Commandments.



[edit on 20-1-2010 by pthena]

reply to post by ldyserenity
Legally (according to the Old Testament) you would go to the gate of your city and present your case against him to the elders, and then you would probably be given the privilege of casting the first stone.

I think you've highlighted in a clear and concise way what is wrong with this world and why we need Jesus Christ to return and rule over the nations! Just look around you and you will see that as the end of the age draws near the point, I believe, God is trying to get across to us (or shake into us!) is that we cannot govern ourselves. Even Christ Jesus said, "for without me ye can do nothing" (Jn 15:5 cf. 5:19). God revealed to us his will through his Law as summarized by the Ten Commandments and truly if we all adhered to them I believe we would be blessed on an individual, national and global level far beyond our imagination (Isaiah 55:9). I sometimes try to imagine what the world would be like if we kept the commandments, statutes and judgments of God and no one lied, stole, murdered, had sex outside of marriage, disobeyed godly authority, loaned on usury; if we cancelled all debts every 7 years and returned land every 50 years to the original owners; if free energy existed and it didn't harm or pollute the world. To me it would be a far more pleasant world to live in that's for sure! I believe that everyone has an "ideal" and surely God does too. I guess we just have to learn or relearn to align our own with God's perfect standard because ultimately no one can outdo God. And that's the reason why I think the Bible and the Ten Commandments have such a lasting effect even today.

And IMHO the American Founding Fathers and the people of that period understood this, which is why a lot of America's political and religious freedoms (that have been taken for granted for too long now which is why they're being slowly taken away) can be traced to the teachings of the Bible (e.g. separation of powers, statute of limitations, gold and silver currency, religious liberty, Sabbath rest, etc.). I think the quote attributed to James Madison says it all really, "We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." I guess that's why I have so much respect for them no matter what revisionist historians try to throw at them today (i.e. saying they weren't Christians, or they were Deists or Freemasons or Satanists, etc.) to only tarnish their reputation and make the next generation look upon their history and heritage with disdain. And in essence I believe that's what lies at the heart of the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution--the noble virtue of "self-government" or "self-discipline" for if there is greater control within means there will be a far lesser need for control from without don't ya' reckon or IOW "if a man is not fit to govern himself how can he be fit to govern someone else?"

I am sorry but the word 'commandments' is just not politically correct any more. It should be replaced by 'recommendations'.
And where are the Equal Opportunities and Health and Safety policies?
Not good enough.

The way I was taught the Ten Commandments was that the first four were about "loving God", and the other six were about "loving others".

Jesus made a statement that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

I am thinking that the solution is that the fourth commandment should be thought of as a two part thing, making it almost the Eleven Commandments.

Part of the commandment is recognizing that God created the earth we live in, and the other part is about recognizing the human frailty of people and that we need a rest from our labors from time to time, in order to allow our bodies to recover and be healthy and live long lives.

The Hebrews were treated poorly by the Egyptians. The ordinary working class Egyptian only got one day out of ten to rest. The Hebrews may have had that luxury at one time but were reduced to a frazzle, later to where at the end of their bondage they probably never had a day off. Now once they were released from that, it was made clear that they were never to themselves be guilty of doing such a thing to someone else.

So, we end up with a very strict commandment to have a Sabbath rest. By the time Jesus came along the original intent was lost and it became almost a slavery of oppression to a religion bent on having themselves, the enforcers of "the law" being so zealous for their God that they would kill someone for being a "sabbath breaker".

The Sabbath obligation is on us, to be decent to others, for the love of others, and not a thing to beat people down with. Let's say I was an observer of what I consider to be the "biblical sabbath" and I had someone working for me and he said that he would like to have Sundays off. It is not up to me to decide which day he should take off, as if it was my job to make sure he followed the "real" Sabbath.