The Green Tea conspiracy?

A few years back "organic green tea" appeared on the shelves of our health stores in South Africa. The package blurps promised everything from "weight loss", "relaxation" to vitamins, catechins and anti-oxidants. I became a big fan, and first followed intructions to add one teaspoon per cup, and two for the pot. Eventually I became somewhat jittery, and reduced the amount to about a teaspoon per big pot.
Only then did I learn that Green Tea is the same plant as ordinary black tea (just unfermented). I still enjoy it, but now put it within the same bounds as other caffeinated drinks (a pot, or two big cups per day).
Today there was a nutritionist on our local radio, who virtually demonized Green Tea. She claimed:
- Most Green Tea health claims are bogus industry propaganda. It is the same as black tea, just more expensive.
- The catechins and other beneficial substances in Green Tea are only in the leaves, which are boiled and discarded, and would be better found in green or red vegetables.
- Green Tea is a part of the addictive "caffeine cartel", which leads to addiction, hormone problems, cellullite, strokes, anxiety, panic attacks and should be avoided by sportsmen and pregnant women. She claimed a common cause of young sports people dropping down dead was from Green Tea extracted supplements.
- Green Tea is not labelled, and many believe it is a caffeine-free health drink.
She then went on to recommend "Red Tea" (here called Rooibos tea), and red grape juice. Another caller then pointed out that modern juices contained huge amounts of sugar (the same as 9 teaspoons in colas and soft-drinks). So now I'm quite confused. What could people recommend, especially for energy?

PS. I was first unsure of where to palce this post, since there is no "nutritional conspiracy" section. I also think that because caffeine-containing Green Tea is aggresively marketed (without mention of the alleged side-effects) it is an ATS topic. I suppose it mirrors the debate around Eastern foods like soya products, which left unfermented are said to "poison" Western vegans (the dark soy-rings around the eyes), and which constantly use non-reviewed studies that claim to show that lower rates of certain conditions in the East on certain "wonder" foods. And then there is the whole "beneficial" red tomato/"poisonous" deadly nightshade debate. Oh dear, as a modern consumer I'm totally lost.

I also heard about the hazards of green tea from a friend.

But to answer your question on recommendations for energy, I use salvia hispanica L. Also know as the 'running man food' it was banned in Mexico buy the Spaniards centuries ago.

It takes a week or two but I noticed a big change in my level of energy.

reply to post by halfoldman


Green Tea is good for you. It is high in anti oxidants, catechins, etc. The ECGC in green tea is also a powerful anti-cancer chemical that is available in quantities 5 times greater than black tea.

Also, when you boil teas, the process extracts the nutrients from the leaves and dilutes them into the water, so it's not really a big deal that the nutrients are in the leaves...because once cooked they make their way into the water.

Green Tea is caffeinated, yes, but you can also buy it caffeine-free, so if you're worried about the effects of caffeine, just...don't buy it with the chemical in it. Caffeine free green tea is clearly labelled as such. There are also web sites that can help you decaffeinate your own tea I believe.

I also find it hilarious that a South African nutritionist that slammed green tea as bogus industry propaganda went on to suggest red tea, which conveniently is a tea grown in South Africa and part of the same exact industry as green tea. I guess it doesn't count as industry propaganda when South African agriculture is paying her to support them?

Unfortunately, red tea does not have the same nutritional content as Green Tea. As of now, green is going to be the best bet for your buck. I would recommend finding a company that buys its green tea at the correct altitude, as the height and geographic area it's grown at affects the quality of the tea.

Green Tea could make you jittery because the ECGC content is so great. When combined with the caffeine in the tea, they complement one another to boost your metabolism. That's why green tea has been marketed as a powerful weight loss supplement.

If you want to alleviate the effects of the tea, mix it with red tea, alternate the teas you take, or brew it in smaller doses.

That being said, you can never go wrong with tea. Whatever you decide to choose, it's probably going to be a lot better for your body than water alone.

reply to post by whereismyfather

Thanks, I've never heard of that. I will check it out!
We do have Guarana, but I've heard that's also just caffeine, and Gingseng is very expensive, or ineffective for some reason.
We also had legal Ephedra and diet pills with Pseudoephidrine until June 2009, but since these were banned they would probably fall into the "alternative substance forum". So I do hope that whatever is recommended is a methodology of nutritional use of widely marketed food products, or a legal herb used for health pourposes.
What one can say is that since ephedra/ephidrine has been effectively banned, most of the diet products contain Green Tea, Guarana, or Ginseng extracts, which are also just legal uppers?

awe! nooo! not green tea! D:

I came across this articlea few days ago,it claims antioxidants can kill you. and antioxidants are in green tea. ..or so they say they are.

www.naturalnews.com...

So what exactly is the conspiracy here? The fact that you didn't know that green tea and black tea come from the same plant? I thought that's common knowledge, sometimes it even says so on the labels of tea packaging.

The fact that tea contains caffeine (or theine or whatever they call it) is also not a secret... Nor is the fact that too much caffeine is bad for you. Highly addictive though? I doubt it. I've been drinking coffee for about 10 years now each day and tea for basically all my life. And guess what, I'm not addicted, I rarely feel the need to drink more than one cup of coffee per day, and can survive without coffee without any visible withdrawal symptoms.

I'm far more worried about sodas and their magical ingredients than I am about drinking tea.

Also, people have been drinking tea for thousands of years now... It's just that, as with pretty much everything else, too much of it can be harmful.

If you're still worried though, drink roiboos. Tastes better than green tea imo, and has no caffeine, but still has antioxidants.

reply to post by Avenginggecko

Although more research is needed, I cannot say that Green Tea and Red Tea are always sold by the same cartels. But you are certainly correct in that Red Tea is major player in our export industry.
We do have some Green Tea production, but most is imported from the East. The more expensive local "organic" variety is now sold only in health shops (which generally don't stock the cheaper caffeine in black tea and coffee).
However, it is also sold at major retailers by the "tea/infusion cartels" - both red and green. For Green Tea that is very recent phenomenon.
Strangely, I was told that the bit of caffeine was good and helped the body to absorb the other vitamins in the Green tea.
That said: I've never seen caffeine-free Green Tea here, so thanks for that info!

reply to post by Wallachian

The conspiracy is that Green Tea makes all kinds of health claims and is marketed as a "wonder food", while its adverse effects may outweigh any benefits. The conspiracy is how certain "health products" are marketed without full and correct information.
The nutritionist said that people regarded Green Tea as so healthy that they even fed it to children and babies, and then wondered why these couldn't sleep!
As you say, the contents and effects are "sometimes" on the box (mostly not) and the warnings to pregnant women are omitted.
I'm not claiming this truth quite yet: but the fact is that Green Tea may be just another caffeine product, and some people get horribly addicted and other side effects, without knowing the cause.

reply to post by halfoldman

For a sceptical view on Green and Oolong tea and their supposed "weight loss" effects (pushed by the MSM, including Oprah), see:
www.burnthefatblog.com...

reply to post by halfoldman


You have to distinguish between pure fruit 'juice' and fruit 'drinks' (which have all sorts added).

reply to post by halfoldman


As I said, too much of ANYTHING can be bad for you. Yet we don't label all the products with such warnings.

Last time I checked, there were no warnings on coffee either, nor on sodas. Yet they contain either caffeine and/ or other potentially dangerous, addictive chemicals.

reply to post by Kieithsage

Yes, sorry to say so mate, perhaps Green Tea too
Thanks for the fascinating article, and that is the problem with the MSM: one recommends stuff to people and then another study comes out and suddenly one is the "bad influence" who suddenly recommended something "bad".
Since I found out I was HIV-positive I've been recommended every concotion on the block, from Ozone Treatment, to Revivo Tea, to various herbs. Our last President was an Aids denialist who recommended beetroot, garlic, lemon juice and African potato as an Aids cure. Many people who could have lived on ARVs died (they reckon 300 000) because of quack diets and pseudo-science. So we are getting a bit pro-active on the quack claims.
If you enjoy your 2 cups (or whatever) of Green tea please do so, just be critical and see the conspiracy in all the unfounded claims made about it.
Four years ago people all took St. John's Wort - where is that now?
Some of the stuff has strong side-effects with other medical drugs, and high blood pressure+Green Tea can be tickets.
The fact that the stuff was sold loose at first also meant people used too much (most young people only knew a tea-bag culture), and nowadays it potently lurks in all kinds of vitamin pills and diet supplements, which may further combine with colas, energy drinks and caffeinated pain-pills.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by halfoldman]

reply to post by Wallachian

I cannot agree that there is no content info on colas and energy drinks, including on sugars, caffeine and the other one (something like "theine", which should count as a kind of caffeine). Bottled and sweetened Green Tea products do contain that info - but how many know how to read it?
I remember a big debate here on a US drink called "Cocaine", which had twice the caffeine of "Red Bull", and even had a throat-numbing agent (benzocaine) to copy the illegal drug. I haven't seen it around, I guess something blatant like that won't sell.
It's much better to create a "don't-question" caffeine alternative that looks "green", and then one introduces it as a new cola, energy drink without the observation and caution.
The fact is, because of MSM colusion, most people see the label "Green Tea" and immediately think - "This must be good for me!"
A bit like people thought of milk and dairy in my youth, maybe.
Whatever the truth on aspartame and refined sugar, even these substances are now sold, hiding behind the "Green Tea" health banner in the "Iced Tea" market.

[edit on 12-1-2010 by halfoldman]

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by Wallachian

 

The conspiracy is that Green Tea makes all kinds of health claims and is marketed as a "wonder food", while its adverse effects may outweigh any benefits. The conspiracy is how certain "health products" are marketed without full and correct information.
The nutritionist said that people regarded Green Tea as so healthy that they even fed it to children and babies, and then wondered why these couldn't sleep!
As you say, the contents and effects are "sometimes" on the box (mostly not) and the warnings to pregnant women are omitted.
I'm not claiming this truth quite yet: but the fact is that Green Tea may be just another caffeine product, and some people get horribly addicted and other side effects, without knowing the cause.

People that are stupid enough to not know that tea has caffeine in it (duh) and furthermore are so stupid they would give caffeine to babies, well, they should be allowed to poison their offspring thusly to take their reproduction out of the gene pool.

reply to post by CaptChaos

Not so, many "teas" contain no caffeine, and this could include a number of "infusions" sold as "tea". Here we buy Rooibos and Chamomile teas, which have no caffeine. I'm glad that you are at least informed on a bog-standard cheap tea and caffeine fix. I once read a German magazine that responded to a Green Tea health scare in Europe - apparently it contains far more pollutants than ordinary fermented tea.
I'm just waiting for the Green Tea-beer mix.
After all, "lighter alcohol" also keeps you "safe".
At least the Green-beer will have "catechins", just like sport drinks have "electrolytes" - what a great excuse to drink alcohol!



[edit on 12-1-2010 by halfoldman]

I would love to see just one example of a healthy young person, sportsman or not, that has dropped dead from drinking green tea.

reply to post by TheComte

Yes I agree, it is a bit over the top (I did not say I agreed with everything I heard), but I suppose people with some vascular or other weakness could expire from caffeine. Well, I think I've found the nutritionist and radio show (hosted by Redi Direko, 702/Cape Talk Radio). I don't know to which examples she referred specifically, but deaths from caffeine are not uncommon, or unknown. In fact they may be rarely realized in combination with other factors, but they probably out-perform deaths on several "alternative substances".
Something that makes you jittery and your heart pound - I mean think about it.

"REDI DIREKO 12 January 2010 11:05 AM
Health Benefits of Green Tea
Defined what green tea is. Discussed the myths about what it is and what it contains. Talked about whether is it good for ones health or not, how many cups can be taken per day as well as downside of drinking it.
Guest: Mary-Ann Shearer
Organisation: Mary-Anns
Position: Nutritionist
Website: www.mary-anns.com
Email: [email protected]"
(from www.702.co.za...)
see also: www.benefitsofgreentea.info...


[edit on 12-1-2010 by halfoldman]

[edit on 12-1-2010 by halfoldman]

reply to post by CaptChaos

Just because people give things to babies acting on advice from "the top" doesn't make those people stupid.
Western women once took Thalidomide for morning sickness, and produced thousands of deformed babies.
In most tea-drinking cultures and regions today it was once reserved for special occasions and ceremonies. In India it was considered a shame for a Brahmin to indulge in the "English" habit of black/green tea.
The British once sold tea to the "homeland", and opium to the Chinese. Both substances were considered equally addictive.

Originally posted by Kieithsage
awe! nooo! not green tea! D:

I came across this articlea few days ago,it claims antioxidants can kill you. and antioxidants are in green tea. ..or so they say they are.

www.naturalnews.com...

Next time try reading the article. It says the opposite of what you said.

Originally posted by halfoldman
So now I'm quite confused. What could people recommend, especially for energy?

Water

Fruit

Veggies

Exercise