If ever there is a war draft, I will humbly refuse to answer the call.

For those who think that war is some glorious, worthy undertaking, and who would blindly follow any call to arms by their national government, I suggest you read this first ... before answering that call .

Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933 by General Smedley Butler, USMC

www.wanttoknow.info...

CHAPTER ONE: War Is A Racket

War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

In the World War [I] a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows. [Please note these are 1935 U.S. dollars. To adjust for inflation, multiply all figures X 10 or more]

How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?

[edit on 6/1/2010 by Dagar]

[edit on 6/1/2010 by Dagar]

The war we are in now is an unjust war that was spurred on by a false flag operation (911).

IMO War is never the answer.

War is legalized murder game for the elite "haves and have mores" and it is the "common" man for the most part that dies in the battlefield - a simple pawn to be used and extinquished so that the select few who have ruled this planet for eons can acquire more. Most people are too stupid to realize this and let themselves be manipulated into "patriotism".

If someone is coming at you with a weapon and you are standing on your home ground, you have no choice. But, to go over to a foreign country, not your home ground and assist a bullish corporate dictatorship to invade is wrong.

Yes, I know I won't get any stars for this post but to be manipulated into war is stupid, and man just doesn't seem to ever grow up.

Give me the money that has been spent in war and I will clothe every man, woman, and child in an attire of which kings and queens will be proud. I will build a schoolhouse in every valley over the whole earth. I will crown every hillside with a place of worship consecrated to peace. ~Charles Sumner

War does not determine who is right - only who is left. ~Bertrand Russell

It'll be a great day when education gets all the money it wants and the Air Force has to hold a bake sale to buy bombers. ~Author unknown, quoted in You Said a Mouthful edited by Ronald D. Fuchs

Originally posted by sgrrsh26
I am just curious how many people feel the same way I do about this. I will not fight. I will go to jail.

They say we are the children who will lead the future. I personally believe now is the time for change, and we are the ones who can accomplish it. We need to let our fathers know that their ways of the past do not, and never have worked.

Peace and love to all.

[edit on 5-1-2010 by sgrrsh26]

So you want to enjoy all of the freedoms that America has to offer, you just don't want to fight for them? You'd rather other people sacrifice themselves on your behalf? That's just lovely...

Without any thought as to what kind of threat we could be facing that would require a draft, you have already made up your mind not to participate. I mean no offense, but it's individuals like yourself that are destroying this country. You want it all but you have no concept of sacrifice or how things really work.

reply to post by Dookie Master


Say man, hate to go OT but I enjoyed your thoughts and am a fellow Jefferson enthusiast (although I got some real issues with the man personally) but I wanted to pass along a really cool Radio Show where Thomas Jefferson himself answers questions and discusses politics.

www.jeffersonhour.org...

It's absolutely top notch and well worth a listen. I personally give my seal approval and recommendation for this.

reply to post by Rasputin13


I read that in the voice of Nixon because of your avatar. I found it be absolutely hilarious. No offense, just a passing thought.

Originally posted by sgrrsh26
I agree I was going to say what you said but i thought it would take the meaning out of my post.

If we were attacked it would be a consideration.

so i should say, "under the right circumstances"
but again, this insight I feel takes away from the meaning of my post.

I stopped reading the thread after I finished reading the above post I have quoted.

If your country was invaded, you would consider answering the call to arms from your nation? This is nothing but a brutally honest confession of cowardice.

If a draft was called, the only reason I would refuse it is if were called to invade Kazakhstan or Madagascar. If your country needs you to fight against a juggernaut like Russia or China, you would curl up in the fetile position and lay there waiting for your family to be destroyed or raped or corralled in to a detention center?

Wow. This country really is doomed.

Originally posted by Plasma applicator

Originally posted by sezsue

I had been interested in Iraq and Saddam Hussein since the 80's, and had been monitoring the situation in Iraq with the weapons inspectors for a long time.

The *weapons of mass destruction* theory didn't ring true to me because of what I knew about the situation. When discussing the situation with people I knew, I told them I didn't think we should be in Iraq, because I didn't think they had any WMD.

Couldn’t resist.
So what do you think? The Iranians and the Kurds gassed themselves? Oh I know. it was propaganda. Nobody got gassed and we didnt give Iraq weapons during the Iran Iraq conflict.

The gassing of the Kurds was exactly the reason I started watching the situation over there.

As a mother of young children at the time, seeing those photos of the thousands dead, killed by their dictator-leader, horrified me. It affected me so much I started really paying attention to what was going on over there.

And, if you were paying close attention to the situation over there, as I was, you would know that the weapons inspectors were being given access and were monitoring the situation.

Therein lies the rub: According to Scott Ritter, who spent seven years in Iraq with the UNSCOM weapons inspection teams performing acidly detailed investigations into Iraq's weapons program, no such capability exists. Iraq simply does not have weapons of mass destruction, and does not have threatening ties to international terrorism. Therefore, no premise for a war in Iraq exists. Considering the American military lives and the Iraqi civilian lives that will be spent in such an endeavor, not to mention the deadly regional destabilization that will ensue, such a baseless war must be avoided at all costs.

Ritter noted explicitly that Iraq, of course, had these weapons at one time - he spent seven years there tracking them down. At the outset, said Ritter, they lied about it. They failed to declare the existence of their biological and nuclear programs after the Gulf War, and declared less than 50% of their chemical and missile stockpiles. They hid everything they could, as cleverly as they could.

After the first lie, Ritter and his team refused to believe anything else they said. For the next seven years, the meticulously tracked down every bomb, every missile, every factory designed to produce chemical, biological and nuclear weaponry. They went to Europe and found the manufacturers who sold them the equipment. They got the invoices and shoved them into the faces of Iraqi officials. They tracked the shipping of these materials and cross-referenced this data against the invoices. They lifted the foundations of buildings destroyed in the Gulf War to find wrecked research and development labs, at great risk to their lives, and used the reams of paperwork there to cross-reference what they had already cross-referenced. Everything they found was later destroyed in place.

After a while, the Iraqis knew Ritter and his people were robotically thorough. Fearing military retaliation if they hid anything, the Iraqis instituted a policy of full disclosure. Still, Ritter believed nothing they said and tracked everything down. By the time he was finished, Ritter was mortally sure that he and his UNSCOM investigators had stripped Iraq of 90-95% of all their weapons of mass destruction.

What of the missing 10%? Is this not still a threat? Ritter believes that the ravages of the Gulf War accounted for a great deal of the missing material, as did the governmental chaos caused by sanctions. The Iraqis' policy of full disclosure, also, was of a curious nature that deserved all of Ritter's mistrust. Fearing the aforementioned attacks, Iraq instituted a policy of destroying whatever Ritter's people had not yet found, and then pretending it never existed in the first place. Often, the dodge failed to fool UNSCOM. That some of it did also accounts for a portion of that missing 10%.

Quotes above from this article

I didn't know for a long time, though, that OUR country helped make it possible for Saddam to rise to power, and I didn't know OUR country supplied him with weapons that made his actions possible.

Just like our country has helped to depose or install or support many different leaders that have actually made life worse for the people of the country, than the original leaders we helped get rid of.

Aren't you aware that supposedly Osama Bin Laden was originally put in place and supported by OUR OWN GOVERNMENT because we were messing around in another countries' business. What gives us the right?

Americans would be outraged if some other country around the world, such as Russia or China, decided to assassinate OUR leader because they felt it was wrong for him to authorize our CIA/FBI to kidnap foreign citizens and torture them to get information.

Did you know some of the torture methods allegedly used by our foreign torturers/allies we sent people to for interrogation?

Craig Murray, the rector of the University of Dundee in Scotland and until 2004 the UK's ambassador to Uzbekistan, said the CIA not only relied on confessions gleaned through extreme torture, it sent terror war suspects to Uzbekistan as part of its extraordinary rendition program.

"I'm talking of people being raped with broken bottles," he said at a lecture late last month that was re-broadcast by the Real News Network. "I'm talking of people having their children tortured in front of them until they sign a confession. I'm talking of people being boiled alive. And the intelligence from these torture sessions was being received by the CIA, and was being passed on."

Quote above from this article

We are the good guys?

Doesn't that make our country responsible for the deaths of a lot of innocent people?

Are the Iraqi people better off now than under Saddam Hussein?

The question is, do THEY think so?

These are only some of the reasons why in general I do not support war.....
and would actively advise my loved ones NOT to participate!

By the way, look up and read the Iron Mountain Report.

reply to post by sgrrsh26


Likely, there will not be a return to any draft so you may proclaim without worry. There are too many excuses and not enough political will to even conscript for non-military national service.
It has been proposed, on occasion, that everyone who wishes to vote should serve in some capacity. It could be for a year or two. It could occur at anytime in a person's life. It could be Americorps, Peace Corps, a WPA type program, or the military.
Would you serve your country for a year for the chance to vote or would you just milk it for what you can get and complain about the Government?

reply to post by Dookie Master


I am a T.J. fan actually, but i also like A. Jackson, JFK, and Abe Lincoln. They are all my top favorite presidents, but since everyone can see JFK being assinated by the secret service he is the best example of Free Masonry at its works.

Those Presidents had actual direction and knew what to do about the national debt.

They were all on the right track but were deemed as threats to the future and had attempted assinations on their lives. Most were succsesful attempts.

I know the true history of our country, not what is written in school books in highschcools and colleges.

The history i know about goes back to when supposedly Jesus was around when he turned the tables of the money changers at the temple.

Sorry for being so off topic, but if I went and typed up all that i know to be true about human being history it would go back about 2000 years and it would very well have to do with the drafting of people to send to war.


Oh and Dookie Nice avatar its awesome.



[edit on 6-1-2010 by Quickfix]

I agree.

Humanity, especially now we have the tech to destroy everything and everyone in one single war, NEEDS to let go of our aggressive and warlike preoccupations.

If we don't, humanity will probably not see the end of this century.

The only way i'd fight, is if an enemy was invading our country, and killing our people, and ignoring diplomatic overtures.

Iraq? Afghanistan? Iran? Not a chance. Plastic wars, devised by plastic people.

Im not much of a fighter.

I tried inlisting several years back before my rape abductions but was unfit for duty as they call it.

But was willing to be a nurse or even change bedsheets but still was unaccepted.

Now my thougts are of love and peace.

I will not even kill a bug thats bitting me.

God Bless

I have always been a fighter.

The first time I picked up a gun I had a better shot than what is required to be considered a sharpshooter in the military.

I have always been fit, able to run miles, and able to endure some pretty insane weather.

I am not afraid of the military, WE are not afraid of the military. We just choose to be on the right side of history. No amount of money would convince me to join the pathetic american military.


When a revolutionary army is needed... I'll be there. No pay needed.

Originally posted by Rasputin13

Originally posted by sgrrsh26
I am just curious how many people feel the same way I do about this. I will not fight. I will go to jail.

They say we are the children who will lead the future. I personally believe now is the time for change, and we are the ones who can accomplish it. We need to let our fathers know that their ways of the past do not, and never have worked.

Peace and love to all.

[edit on 5-1-2010 by sgrrsh26]

So you want to enjoy all of the freedoms that America has to offer, you just don't want to fight for them? You'd rather other people sacrifice themselves on your behalf? That's just lovely...

Without any thought as to what kind of threat we could be facing that would require a draft, you have already made up your mind not to participate. I mean no offense, but it's individuals like yourself that are destroying this country. You want it all but you have no concept of sacrifice or how things really work.

If US forces marched out of afpakiraqistan tomorrow, what freedoms would we lose? None, ergo the troops are not fighting for our freedoms. They are, however, fighting for the US oligarchs freedom to loot others nations resources and subjugate its people to the rule of a US puppet... based on lies and deceit.. which is a disgusting insult to modern humanity.

If anything we are losing MORE freedoms to our own govt.. the people of afpakiraqistan have no desire to travel to US soil and enslave you... they mostly want our troops to stop killing them, and our govts insanely incompetent influence to go away.

And BTW a non combat role cleaning a plane? that plane will go on to probably kill people, or train people to kill people.. which is asking someone against killing to help in the killing.. not an option.

If US soil were being invaded in the modern era of corrupt broken lying govt, the best thing anyone can do for themselves is stay put and rally those around you to defend your local interests.. and do what you have to do to ensure you and your loved ones die of old age. Your family / loved ones need you more than the govt does.. the TPTB will always have enough people full of phony patriotic emotion to go die for the preferred colored cloth on a stick.

I served USMC MOS 0847 and learned life is too short, my life too important to me, to go die for some elite #holes cause... go sit on a tropical island sipping a corona enjoying life as the million / billionaires send other peoples kids to fight for their interests The violence will blow over..it always does, obey your animal instinct to survive and you'll be better off for it.

I would also prefer jail over killing or be killed.

Lets be honest here for a moment. If you walk down the street and ask two simple questions to people; the answer you seek may be found without all this patriotism and the throwing back and forth of rubbish.

Do you want to kill?

Do you want to be killed?

I think we can all agree (no matter your skin color or your religion) that most people of the world do not want to kill, or be killed. Do you want to kill or be killed in the name of oil? In the name of religion? For royalty or your president?

I agree with others here, that defending your land and/or your family seems to be the sensible conclusion. If your country is being attacked, defend it.. just like the freedom fighters in Iraq are doing. Most aren't terrorists, but are 'labeled' as such. They are simply defending their land from invaders who are blowing up their women and children.


Why is it that some people still don't realize we spin on the same axis? Only the rich like to wage war, but yet were the ones who fight.

I don't know... am i ignorant? Or is the person who goes to war blindly for his country ignorant?

Originally posted by hungrydirt

Originally posted by sgrrsh26
I agree I was going to say what you said but i thought it would take the meaning out of my post.

If we were attacked it would be a consideration.

so i should say, "under the right circumstances"
but again, this insight I feel takes away from the meaning of my post.

I stopped reading the thread after I finished reading the above post I have quoted.

If your country was invaded, you would consider answering the call to arms from your nation? This is nothing but a brutally honest confession of cowardice.

If a draft was called, the only reason I would refuse it is if were called to invade Kazakhstan or Madagascar. If your country needs you to fight against a juggernaut like Russia or China, you would curl up in the fetile position and lay there waiting for your family to be destroyed or raped or corralled in to a detention center?

Wow. This country really is doomed.

Cowardice? It's a funny word to throw around huh? Maybe he is just smarter than you are. Why would you want to go to a different country and kill? Can you imagine in 2000 years time if people still had the same strain of thought as you?

Oh man were so screwed.

Originally posted by Rasputin13


Without any thought as to what kind of threat we could be facing that would require a draft, you have already made up your mind not to participate. I mean no offense, but it's individuals like yourself that are destroying this country. You want it all but you have no concept of sacrifice or how things really work.

Yes people who would prefer peaceful aproaches rather than war TRULY are destroying this country

Originally posted by hungrydirt

I stopped reading the thread after I finished reading the above post I have quoted.

If your country was invaded, you would consider answering the call to arms from your nation? This is nothing but a brutally honest confession of cowardice.

If a draft was called, the only reason I would refuse it is if were called to invade Kazakhstan or Madagascar. If your country needs you to fight against a juggernaut like Russia or China, you would curl up in the fetile position and lay there waiting for your family to be destroyed or raped or corralled in to a detention center?

Wow. This country really is doomed.

You fail to understand the main point of this thread. Sorry you feel and think the way you do.

*****************Let me steer this in another direction. **********************

Lets say Russia for example (since someone here believes it to be this big bad juggernaut), were to attack us on our soil because of our government and military's actions on THEIR soil. Now, you say you will defend, which I agree with 100%, but now your government wants you to go back to their land and FINISH THEM OFF. Now, what do you do??

Use the Russian example,
or just think about our current situation. Because in Reality our government ALLOWED 911 to happen. Whether you believe it is a FAKE flag or not, our security wasn't good enough. And it caused our occupancy in foreign countries.

Originally posted by sgrrsh26
*****************Let me steer this in another direction. **********************

Lets say Russia for example (since someone here believes it to be this big bad juggernaut), were to attack us on our soil because of our government and military's actions on THEIR soil. Now, you say you will defend, which I agree with 100%, but now your government wants you to go back to their land and FINISH THEM OFF. Now, what do you do??

Use the Russian example,
or just think about our current situation. Because in Reality our government ALLOWED 911 to happen. Whether you believe it is a FAKE flag or not, our security wasn't good enough. And it caused our occupancy in foreign countries.

If Russia was to attack our U.S. Corporate government and corporate military why should the people help or even intervene?

Possibly ignorance...

And another question would be why would they attack, but thats the thing with hypothetical questions.

I will defend whom I think needs to be protected.

What do you mean finish off the Russians? Kill them all? Beat on them until they give up and they sign a treaty?

The security of our country was gone before the country even began. The Free Mason's had you before you were born.

And the current "security" (buzz word) is just a bunch of mumbo jumbo. You are never ever going to be secure at all times, so get over it and relax.

I am sorry to say but 9/11 was a demolition the evidence speaks for itself, and the money reaped off of the insurance was absurd; Not to mention disgusting.....blood money

if there was a mandatory military service that applied to rich and poor/ student/non.. there would be no war. nobody sends their OWN kids to war.

reply to post by CuriousSkeptic


I am always humbled with appreciation when knowledge is passed along. Thank you for the link.

Star