An attack on America by Europe

Man, if you guys think Americans have too much pride in their country, you haven't talked to a Texan yet about their Texas pride.

So, Slayer, let me get this right...

You are saying "YES" we ruined countless lives in the name of America's best interests, but thats OK because youve "raised the standard of living for the whole planet..." ???

Try asking the millions of people your country has slaughtered,in the last ten years,whether they would agree with you....I think not.

.......and you have the audacity to say "never mind the people who cant look past their own ignorances"......


You may also be ignorant of the fact that I mentioned Israel because your mighty country gives Israel over 2.5 billion dollars every year and has steadfastly stood by Israel, often alone, when the rest of the world stands in condemnation of Israels actions towards the region.

Surely a "blemish" against your countries name, at the least, and reason enough to have been brought up??

The Best Man at my wedding was an American.....No better friend could I have wished for...

Which I mention to point out my issues lie in your countries behaviour ....not its peoples.

Your abuses to the Planet and its Peoples handicap and hinder how good you could have been...

I get the idea of "nationalism" as described above, but I missed it on this thread...

Where are the bible thumping fundamentalist religious zealots posts? Where are the white power posts? Where's the America first, damn the rest posts? I haven't seen any of that in this thread, in fact most posters have straight up said that they understand the US is not perfect, *I* for one, am well aware of this. No country past/present is. There are many posts on the multi-culturalism that embodies US society as a whole.

While the idea of "nationalism" as a fundamentalist/fringe layer in society may be an interesting topic to explore, I'm missing where that ideology fits into the original post and main ideas of this thread...

[edit on 22-10-2009 by LadySkadi]

reply to post by jam321


jam, I didn't dare bring it up, knowing many Texans quite well, and not wanting to get you boys started.

I don't care where you're from, how great your nation/state, Texans can out brag you on levels you never knew existed - for days and days.

And this is NOT a modern day phenomenon.

In Texas, and from those born of Texas, it's a way of life.

And I don't see it changing - forever.

reply to post by benoni


benoni, would you be so kind as to list or provide references for your claim that the US has killed millions of people in the last ten years?

I'd sure appreciate that if you could help out.

Or, admit that it's a BS exaggeration.

What i would like to point out to you guys, becaue it irritates me to say the least, is that EUROPE IS NO NATION!!

It is a continent, not a nation!!

I always get the idea american people speak about us as if we are a nation. We are not.

If Spain for example attacks the USA then its not an attack by Europe. If England attacks the USA, France, Germany etc etc have nothing to do with it.

So if you talk about an attack on the USA by Europe you are so very wrong. Like i said, Europe is no nation, its a continent.

If Canada attacks England then its not an American attack on Europe. Then the USA has nothing to do with it, am i right? Because Noth Ameirca is a continent, not a nation.

So please dont treat us like one nation because we are not. If Germany attacks the USA then France and all the other countrys have nothing to do with it.

And im sorry but this is a topic that is very sensitive in the CONTINENT Europe, because they did try to make one nation out of all the european countrys under one flag, one president and one national anthem. And i dont like my country to become a state, and all the other people from other countrys also dont want that. We still have our pride! I wont pledge myself to a blue flag with some stars aligned in a circle and i wont put my hat of and place my hand on my heart when they play the English national anthem because thats what theyve chosen as the european national anthem. If you know what i mean.

So im sorry im so freaked out about it, but this is very sensitive over here. Its like they want to get the USA to become one country with all the Noth American nations. Do you guys want that? If they want to force you guys into forming one nation with all the others on your continent then you wouldnt like it either if we refer to you guys as North America instead of the United States of America.

reply to post by TheNetherlands

Yeah. We're well aware Europe is a continent, and not a nation.

We fought over there twice, and freed many of those nations.

We haven't forgotten, trust me.

reply to post by TheNetherlands

I hear ya...

reply to post by TheNetherlands


Thanks for your post and please understand that we are not out to offend. We understand EU is made up of individual countries.

It would just be too tedious to create a thread for every country that blames the US for the world problems.

Off topic, but isn't the EU trying to set up a permanent president? Would that make y'all one country under Blair?

Just curious not trying to be offensive.

Thanks.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by TheNetherlands

 

Thanks for your post and please understand that we are not out to offend. We understand EU is made up of individual countries.

It would just be too tedious to create a thread for every country that blames the US for the world problems.

Off topic, but isn't the EU trying to set up a permanent president? Would that make y'all one country under Blair?

Just curious not trying to be offensive.

Thanks.

They did try 2 years ago to force us into becoming one nation. Everyone in every country had to vote for or against a "european constitution" yes or no. We all voted no so it was off the table. But afterwards ive heard about a "european constitution" was secretly approved which only had some alinea's removed out of the original one. Secretly, whilst everyone voted against.

So yes, it is very possible they are trying to do that, but then it will be done in secret. I find it very odd that i dont know about this Blair situation and someone on the other side of the world does.

But i dare them to make Europe into one country. Do it in secret, while the people all voted no. I dare them. If they do that they have almost every single person on the whole continent teaming up to form one army and then there will be no turning back for them.

reply to post by TheNetherlands


I wish you guys the best.

Sometimes I feel there are secret plans to unite the US with surrounding countries. I know I wouldn't like it and would fight like hell to prevent it.

Thanks for the info.

Dear Lady:
The nationalism I mentioned here as a danger has its own language forms. It frequently uses plurals - "We saved your ass..." etc. Patriotic people would go like "I am Japanese and I think sushi and hentai are great."
To clarify further: most of the type of American nationalists I met or read simplify complex issues of history into black and white. Occasionally I meet people who define themselves as American Nationalists and they are really not - because they confuse expressions like "patriotic" with "nationalist." George W Bush and his media shills were careful - they alwas preferred the word 'patriotic' or its connates, but only used "nationalist" in reference to groups they currently felt like attacking or chastising. Their entire ideology was US nationalism, though, which as history knows, mixing in a desperate financial capital will yield a formula for classic fascism. The reason for that is America had less experience woth other nationalisms. THEREFORE IT FAILS TO RECOGNIZE ITS OWN WHEN IT HAUNTS.

So no, there have been no Bible-thumpers here - ATS is sadly devoid of them.
That type will these days sometimes believe that the entire middle east must be conqured and subdued with Israel leading, then all of a sudden all Jews would convert to christianity of this watered-down TV-educated type, because after Armageddon, which is a peculiarity to their version of that influential religion, the Second Coming would end history and Last Judgment is at hand. (It is not, BWB) You can see how the average bible-thumper (not the mystic christians, healers etc. I sometimes met on forums) is joined to a very concrete political agenda. They must be anti-Islam, pro-globalist, anti-environmental.

Babylon must be conquered, you see? Those Ayrabs may even have a Stargate there.
Does the rest of the world know America' Pat Robertsons and Sean Hannities, Krauthammer's and Limbaughs. They created special hate speech formulae for their internal enemies: commie, left-liberal-feminist-feminazi etc. Göring the Nazis
In history, it is always 'us and them for this mentality - psychologists found they just do not accept life isn't balck and white.

Sometimes it is though. In retrospect, many people in Western Europe
weren't sure for a long time if Nazis or Stalinists were really that evil. Read Arthur Koestler on that conversion of beliefs. It lasted for so long, and the information in contrary.

But when death camps were kiberated, no decent German-sympathizer could hold on except if he chose fascism. Or did a deep soul-searching inner interview: OK, I was ordered to fight in a war, because of the Fatherland, and then... we suddenly found ourselves doing SOMETHING ELSE... and the Russians would kill us no matter what, so let's fight on.

Now there are reports that the MI complex operates HAARP to military and mind control ends. I do not know if that is true. You can control people by far simpler methods. There are reports with evidence that FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS TO COME, "depleted uranium" will cause birth defects to about half the population in Afhganistan. That a few real atomic bombs were blown up in Iraq. Some of this is confirmed, ad it is a great shame, similar to Hiroshima and Chernobyl. If you look at the people affected, it's tens of millions in the next few years. That already does measure up with the last holocaust.

Who started this war? Keanu Reeves with his Matrix? Madonna? Mr. Spock from the Enterprise? No, it was a Nationalist leadership at the superoempire level that probably had an allowing or even active hand in blowing up the twin towers. Hitler set torch to the German Parliament - the Reichstag - and then tried to convict Bulgarian Communists for that. The trial turned out not so triumphant because mind-control interrogation methods and general PR were less developed then.
If I were a good soldier, ordered to shoot civilian arabs in their country (whose leader WAS a flagrant nationalist tyrant), I may have second thoughts... later. I may have a qunadary inside about what to do. And ask God to help me to live with the memories. Or I can decide to perform a personality break - and shnoops! Well, there are hardship in wars... I was doing alright!

Within that shady, turbulent frame of mind, there are vampires hissing...

Have you heard of this kind of a moral dilemma?
I am a good soldier, I talk like that, and then... another side comes out and I start crying... Something was messd up hre, and I did not notice because it came on way too gradually and way too high.
PErhaps I was following orders and can be proud but... something is fishy in the state of Denmark. (Was Hamlet anti-Danish?)

Yes, I connect these mentaliites. Only, this time they may not win. Technology IS important: Hitler would have amounted to nothing without the radio. He pioneered TV.
But now there is Internet. Perhaps this is the first time we can enjoy freedom of speech.

Trying to sell us another war? No, man, we've got enough trouble.

This unity in a modern state is usually bound to be false demagoguery. Sorry if anyone was liking it earlier... Now it operates with words like "majority" and "interest". If the majorities in Russia would decide to get rid of minorities and - everyone must learn Russian, and even though your village is obliterated, you should go to Siberia tomorrow for the greater glory of the Party. So there is a uniformity in their nationalism oterwise the Great PArty is shattered. If you buy Iraq, Afghanistan, you do not want to decry GMO's - as long aou are one of us, right?
Image there: Scientific materialist Russians with hard labor background freeing the rifraff. Another image sold: America - Majority: White. Belief in God? Sure, but only in this one version which says you should kill Palestinians. (That's His plan, don't you get it? Baba, givim some more coffee- he'll think it over.)
Or ... are you simply unfit to be one of us?
Then you ar a TRAITOR! Worse than the enemy! We warmed serpents
in our bosom... Be more carefulbemorecareful...

Myth 2: PR: without white conquest and capitalism, we would not be a great nation. You have to forgive the Noble Cause that Hannity is rude and Coulter is too anorexic. This is what we'we got, we'we not much time, we'we got to attack! The MUSLIMS (horror shriek) are among us already?

At bottom this type of charachter will try to nail you on technicalities, stop the debate at trivial issues so the larger issues are never tackled here.

Genna

reply to post by dooper


You consider yourself these things yet you also call for citizens to revolt against the government. And don't say you never implied it because you did.

Wow, You guys still going at it hein. Guess no one acting childish here understood the concept of humanity and how united we all stand and devided we all fall.

Lets all just shake hands and grab a beer now

Originally posted by TheNetherlands
What i would like to point out to you guys, becaue it irritates me to say the least, is that EUROPE IS NO NATION!!

It is a continent, not a nation!!

I always get the idea american people speak about us as if we are a nation. We are not.

If Spain for example attacks the USA then its not an attack by Europe. If England attacks the USA, France, Germany etc etc have nothing to do with it.

So if you talk about an attack on the USA by Europe you are so very wrong. Like i said, Europe is no nation, its a continent.

If Canada attacks England then its not an American attack on Europe. Then the USA has nothing to do with it, am i right? Because Noth Ameirca is a continent, not a nation.

So please dont treat us like one nation because we are not. If Germany attacks the USA then France and all the other countrys have nothing to do with it.

And im sorry but this is a topic that is very sensitive in the CONTINENT Europe, because they did try to make one nation out of all the european countrys under one flag, one president and one national anthem. And i dont like my country to become a state, and all the other people from other countrys also dont want that. We still have our pride! I wont pledge myself to a blue flag with some stars aligned in a circle and i wont put my hat of and place my hand on my heart when they play the English national anthem because thats what theyve chosen as the european national anthem. If you know what i mean.

So im sorry im so freaked out about it, but this is very sensitive over here. Its like they want to get the USA to become one country with all the Noth American nations. Do you guys want that? If they want to force you guys into forming one nation with all the others on your continent then you wouldnt like it either if we refer to you guys as North America instead of the United States of America.

Thats already been established guy.

However, I dont think anyone ever originally stated that Europe was a country in the first place. Is it a crime to use the all-encompassing name of your continent instead of listing individual countries? Im pretty sure he wasnt just thinking of one individual country and typed in Europe by mistake. For example, if I said something like "Europe is garbage" I would mean that every country on the European continent is garbage.

Dooper..

Yeah, sure I'll show you,after youve shown me how your country has raised the standard of living across the whole world.....BS if ever ive seen it....it stinks so bad i had to check my shoe....!!

The world is worse, not better, because of Americas actions....

And the only ones who cant see it are the Americans it seems!!

Emperors new clothes anybody??

And remember...I have no bias in this debate....you have....something that tends to cloud rational judgement my friend ....

Originally posted by benoni
Try asking the millions of people your country has slaughtered,in the last ten years,whether they would agree with you....I think not.

Well before we proceed lets see some factual information to support your accusation Or are you just spewing out of your backside here?

.......and you have the audacity to say "never mind the people who cant look past their own ignorances"......

Yup pretty much sums that up.

You may also be ignorant of the fact that I mentioned Israel because your mighty country gives Israel over 2.5 billion dollars every year and has steadfastly stood by Israel, often alone, when the rest of the world stands in condemnation of Israels actions towards the region.

Anybody who knows me knows that I'm not an Israeli Fanboy. However they are an Allie and as such yes we will support them. This does in no means I agree with their recent actions. Let me know at what moment you started speaking for the whole world.

Surely a "blemish" against your countries name, at the least, and reason enough to have been brought up??

Contrary to pop culture internet opinion of America we as a whole are not that thinned skinned. Get over it, we will.

The Best Man at my wedding was an American.....No better friend could I have wished for...

If this recently occurred then a heartfelt congratulations is in order. Your best man sounds like a good man.


[edit on 22-10-2009 by SLAYER69]

I don't care about national boundaries anymore , I've heard too many lies . I don't care to be patriotic or nationalistic , the people I call my kin and compatriots are the ones that share my ideals , no matter if they are American, European or Botswanese.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by benoni

 

benoni, would you be so kind as to list or provide references for your claim that the US has killed millions of people in the last ten years?

I'd sure appreciate that if you could help out.

Or, admit that it's a BS exaggeration.

Nay, friend Dooper, not "killed". The young gent said "SLAUGHTERED"! It was a made up "fact", created from whole cloth, designed ONLY to provoke an emotional response, without examining the actual claim too closely.

One can tell that from his peculiar choice of words. Comrade Lenin would have been MIGHTY proud of him. It's one of those factiods designed to lead the proletariat around by the noses.

I've noticed a LOT of old catchphrases and techniques from the 60's being used of late. They were outdated and easily recognized even back then. For example, the claim of "criminal war", when no law has been broken. There's a lot more where those came from, if one watches for it.

Designed only to provoke an emotional, as opposed to rational, response. Or maybe just provoke. If you'll notice my posts when I sight such, I do it solely to watch them go off on emotional rants when met with crass rationality.

So far, I've rarely been disappointed.

A prime example for the cause of this thread. The poor souls can't get their facts right, but damned if they'll let THAT stop 'em from a good ol' fashioned US bashing!

And they wonder why we take exception to it. Have we not done enough wrong that they could stick to THOSE facts, rather than having to make some up?

It DOES appear to weaken their case.

Except among the more emotional sort, who think with something other than their thinkers.

[edit on 2009/10/22 by nenothtu]

Originally posted by plumranch

Europeans in general seem to be trying their hardest to forget their past.

I'm finding this point rather bizarre, as I have the several times I've seen it posited by other posters. Our relationship to the past isn't the same as Americas because we have a past, unlike America, who seem to have a weird focus on it, or at least other people's. We're not trying to forget the past or hide from it. At the most we're trying to just move on: history happens to old countries. The last 100 years or so is what? A 100 years in 1000s?

What's the alternative? Not move on? Not "forget the past"? It's weird, on the one hand the Americans in this thread are accusing us of not letting go of our "baggage" which seems to be a point Slayer is trying to roll out time and time again and yet you're accusing of us of having let go or at least wanting to let go of our past and our baggage. What the # are we supposed to do as it seems no matter what we do, an American viewpoint will say it's wrong. Is this how 'good cop, bad cop' works?

Probably because there was violence, heartbreak, hatred and who knows what all bad blood involved with all the struggles you have gone through.

What do want us to do? Put everyone we've ever fought against in reservations or something? We've had wars with people, then we've not had wars with people. This is getting surreal. This is what people do after wars if they've any sense. They try and move on. Why is it OK for an American like Dooper to talk about how he gets on with Vietnamese people and vice versa but when Europeans get on with themselves post-war/conflict we're simply trying to hide from the past and forget what's gone on? Why are you saying it's different for us. Are we supposed to still be at each other's throats? Earlier on in the thread there's people stating that we have this animosity and these divides (still) - which isn't really the case - and yet here we seem to be at fault for wanting to bridge these supposed divides. What the #?

We don't have all that baggage. You can be Italian, Bulgarian, Russian, whatever and be proud of it, celebrate it, nobody cares. They have Norwegian celebrations, German celebrations.

I suspect most don't even know much about the country of origin. It's all just great fun.

Which is as I thought and undermines the point Slayer seems desperate to make about how informed a lot of Americans are when it comes to other cultures, and especially the cultures their ancestors came from. This weird 'we've dumped our past and our baggage' but at the same time 'we've kept our past and our baggage'. Nonsense. This whole thread is beginning to look like something Lewis Carroll wrote.

Heck, you drive around over there and see pillboxes all over Europe. They're everywhere, leftover fortifications from some war back when. Ever seen a pillbox driving around in the Americas? You have to look long and hard!

Ever drove around Europe or the rest of the world and seen the amount of places Americans are stationed? Forget pill boxes and reminders of the past. This is what's going on now, right now. Which is more worrying? What happened before most of us were even born or what's happening every day when we wake up? That's not forgetting the past, that's just dealing with reality and priority.

Everyone over there has it out for somebody!

Is that what they teach in schools as to why America has military in 150 or so countries around the world? It makes the rest of us wonder who has it in for who.