Healthcare Reform is Communism (Socialism)

Originally posted by Badgered1

Happy with 35th? Think how much money you spend to keep this status quo.
Think how much money you spend on healthcare to come 35th.

Top 20 Countries

1Japan
2Hong Kong
3 Iceland
4Switzerland
5Australia
6 Spain
7Sweden
8Israel
9 Macau
10France (metropolitan)
11Canada
12 Italy
13 New Zealand
14 Norway
15 Singapore
16Austria
17 Netherlands
18 Martinique ( France)
19 Greece
20 Belgium


The United States ranks 35 in the world.

Maybe you could be a chart together showing the net PROFIT from the American health insurance companies.
It would surprise you.
All that money going into the pockets of a few, and still you're expected to be outlived by the people in 34 nations.

Yeeaaahh, uh, here is a little nugget for you about those "rankings"

www.cato.org...

Originally posted by Pathos
Healthcare Reform is Communism (Socialism)
He comes the part where I tell everyone that I was right. Remember those comments that I made about - if the health care reform was to become law, everyone's physical self would be owned by the government? I also said the bills will force you to weight a certain amount, for you to stop smoking, etc...

I was right.

Senate proposals put premium on healthy living
www.msnbc.msn.com...

By more than doubling the maximum rewards and penalties that companies can apply to employees who flunk medical evaluations, the bills could put workers under intense financial pressure to lose weight, stop smoking or even lower their cholesterol.

I couldn't figure how they would do it, but the pieces finally dropped into place. If you do not follow the rules, they will financially ruin you into oblivion.

"Everybody said that we're going to be ending discrimination based on preexisting conditions. But this is in effect discrimination again based on preexisting conditions," said Ann Kempski of the Service Employees International Union.

"But, but, but, the article also says that private healthcare will not do so."
Remember, the final version will force everyone onto a public option. They will do it by making the public option more affordable; thus, employers will just dump people onto the system.

Welcome to communism! You will soon be owned.

[edit on 16-10-2009 by Pathos]

i agree that it is socialism, and people who live in the US should be against having more controls on our lives. we are a country based on freedom, not control

Four pages of posts on this thread and I have to say that it's painfully obvious corporate interests in the US have been completely successful in brainwashing people as to what Communism, Socialism, Fascism, and Capitalism are and how they actually benefit or hurt a people.

Intensive study of political theory should be a requirement for high school seniors and college undergraduates, to say the least.


There is a reason the insurance and healthcare industries spent about 3 billion dollars the past decade on lobbying Congress and easily twice that on PR and Ad campaigns to influence the public.

Hint: It's not because they're looking out for our well-being.

Originally posted by I_am_Spartacus
Yeeaaahh, uh, here is a little nugget for you about those "rankings"
www.cato.org...

And the CATO Institute is a libertarian lens through which to juggle numbers and verbiage...which is not to say its results are any more profound...simply that they suit those of a like mind.

Which is to say that one person's nugget is another's dross.

You know what else is socialist? Highways, police, fire departments, the FDA, the FAA and the CDC. No one except for paranoid libertarians seem to complain about these services.

Might I add that France's health care system was rated number one by the WHO. Number one as in, their socialized health care system is superior to our capitalist system.

[edit on 20-10-2009 by The Transhumanist]

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
I do believe that countries like Norway, Sweden, Portugal and India identify themselves as socialist. Folks to the south like to identify Canada as being mighty pink as well.Was Norway not just awarded best place in the world to live status?

These countries are not socialist. They are social democrat mixed with conservative. These Governments are essentially centrist.

can someone tell the OP it's Insurance Reform.........

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Back to the issue, please...and I simply have to laff at the rational that the Norwegian lifestyle represents a trade-off for those rights that Americans hold so dear. Take a poll...aside from the weather...see who wants to swap?

Socialized Healthcare European-style works. Its a good model. But that does not mean that "socialism is good" or that these countries are "socialist" countries.

Originally posted by Badgered1

By the way, here's the list of longest living nations. See if you can (a) spot the "Communist" countries, and (b) spot those countries with universal healthcare.
Happy with 35th? Think how much money you spend to keep this status quo.
Think how much money you spend on healthcare to come 35th.

Top 20 Countries

1Japan
2Hong Kong
3 Iceland
4Switzerland
5Australia
6 Spain
7Sweden
8Israel
9 Macau
10France (metropolitan)
11Canada
12 Italy
13 New Zealand
14 Norway
15 Singapore
16Austria
17 Netherlands
18 Martinique ( France)
19 Greece
20 Belgium


The United States ranks 35 in the world.

Maybe you could be a chart together showing the net PROFIT from the American health insurance companies.
It would surprise you.
All that money going into the pockets of a few, and still you're expected to be outlived by the people in 34 nations.

1Japan Center-Right
2Hong Kong Center-Right
3 Iceland Center
4Switzerland Center-Right
5Australia Center
6 Spain Center-Left
7Sweden Center-Left
8Israel Center-Right
9 Macau Center
10France (metropolitan) Center-Left
11Canada Center
12 Italy Center-Right
13 New Zealand Center
14 Norway Center-Left
15 Singapore Center-Right
16Austria Center-Right
17 Netherlands Center-Left
18 Martinique ( France) Center
19 Greece Center-Left
20 Belgium Center

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
I do believe that countries like Norway, Sweden, Portugal and India identify themselves as socialist. Folks to the south like to identify Canada as being mighty pink as well.Was Norway not just awarded best place in the world to live status?

These countries are not socialist. They are social democrat mixed with conservative. These Governments are essentially centrist.

Yes, but I'm utilising current American standards. You know...those folks telling us that Socialism=Communism.

Seriously, these countries self-identify as Socialist, at least as far as my research tells me.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Yeah, mine, too.
Second line.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
These countries are not socialist. They are social democrat mixed with conservative. These Governments are essentially centrist.

Yes, but I'm utilising current American standards. You know...those folks telling us that Socialism=Communism.

Seriously, these countries self-identify as Socialist, at least as far as my research tells me.

These countries self-identify as democratic. Venezuela self-identifies as socialist.

The distinction is important. Marxists cannot take credit for the wealth of Europe.

reply to post by I_am_Spartacus


It seems people keep posting the list that the US is the 35th. Spartacus posted a link but no one opened it. It is not another list.

It is how they rank the list. Amazingly non objectively.

1. Health Level: 25 percent
2. Health Distribution: 25 percent
3. Responsiveness: 12.5 percent
4. Responsiveness Distribution: 12.5 percent
5. Financial Fairness: 25 percent

But everyone keep avoiding the facts. Keep saying we are all idiots and controlled by the corporations.

Yes we need TRUE FREE MARKETS, but hell keep obfuscating are arguments against bigger government. Because WE ARE THE ONES that do not understand our own position.

Very pathetic indeed.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
These countries self-identify as democratic. The distinction is important. Marxists cannot take credit for the wealth of Europe.

These countries self identify as socialist, or social democrats, not Marxist. The point is that the OP equates socialism with communism. I am merely trying to point out the error of his ways. There is a difference between those who state they are socialist by the nature of their governance, and those who shout they are socialist...or democratic...and are neither.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by JohnnyCanuck]

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Marxist Propaganda says that Canada, Norway, New Zealand, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, The Netherlands, etc. are "socialist" countries.

You echoed this belief.

This information is false.

The countries in question are democracies of a multi-party-system which sometimes vote "social democrat" which, in American terms is Democrat and sometimes "Conservative" which is, in American terms Conservative.

The scale to the left is:

Social Democrat
Socialist
Communist

So you are right to call out the difference between #3 and #2. But calling Norway a "socialist country" is a gross distortion.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Marxist Propaganda says that Canada, Norway, New Zealand, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, The Netherlands, etc. are "socialist" countries.

So does a certain amount of American propaganda...I am not going to call my southern cousins Marxist as a result.

Please...you understand what I am trying to convey, and I don't intend to invoke PoliSci 101 to make my point.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Just making sure certain memes dont go unchallenged

reply to post by endisnighe

Keep saying we are all idiots and controlled by the corporations.

1. - American student's test scores are far behind that of the Asian countries and some European countries... if things in the educational field don't shape up soon then we will be a country of idiots in a few generations.

and

2. - We are controlled by corporations... corporate lobbyists and their influence on politicians proves this, the revolving door policy between Congress and the defense industry proves this, the fact that our health care is privatized proves this, the Federal Reserve being owned by a banking cartel proves this, our media's corporate ownership proves this, the number of people from the corporate world in the political system proves this... the war in Afghanistan, Iraq 2003, Iran 1953 proves this.

Yes we need TRUE FREE MARKETS, but hell keep obfuscating are arguments against bigger government. Because WE ARE THE ONES that do not understand our own position.

We have privatized health care. So why stop there? Privatize the police, the post office, how about corporate owned firemen? You gotta give them your credit card number over the phone before they come dose your burning house in water. Hell, privatize the military... oh, wait.

You want true free markets? Have fun when monopolies run rampant. Have fun when there isn't a single job on American soil because they've all been outsourced in order to exploit the workers of third world countries. Yeah, sounds good.

What we need is to eliminate large corporations, and turn all jobs into worker cooperatives. Reform the government into worker councils that oversee health care, education etc, etc, answerable only the people. Nationalize the oil and banking industries so that every citizen benefits. International councils that oversee trade and politics...

Of course, this is all Utopian dreaming and will probably never happen. But we can fix what we have now and move in the right direction.

[edit on 21-10-2009 by Someone336]

Originally posted by I_am_Spartacus
Oh, they will let you stay on it if you subject to their humiliating, time consuming, requirements like multiple online surveys appraisals, doctors visits every six months, medications, etc.

Seems like what you are describing is an honest attempt at adequate preventive case (periodic doctor visits, monitoring, medication when necessary to correct a certain problem before it becomes dire etc).

We need more of that, not less.

Socialism - Everything is owned and allocated by the state according to their needs.

Communism - There is no state, everything is owned and run directly by the people. It is all "community property" hence the term "communism".

Socialism and communism are nothing alike. There are no communist countries in the world that I am aware of. I don't think it is a workable system.