Russia's Putin warns against intimidating Iran

reply to post by total newbie


I will eat somebodies hat if Iran is destroyed, I just don't think it is going to happen.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
I don't disagree with most of your post.

Yes some Christians want to see prophecy fulfilled, I was one that prayed for it not to.

Maybe I am bad.

I believe we are living in the last days, but I also believe the transition doesn't have to be violent.

There is an old saying amongst business people "If you want to get poor cater to the rich, if you want to get rich cater to the poor".

The poor will pay more for less than the rich will and be thankful for any service that comes along with the purchase as opposed to the rich who are rarely satisfied no matter how much service you provide.

The transition we are undergoing is a false one aimed at deliberately making more people poor so the rich can get richer off of them.

The next shift in collective consciousness does not have to be violent but the Military Industrial Complex profits insanely off of violence.

Poor people are often frightened people, and frightened people often alternate between fear of something and anger over that something.

Poor angry frightened people are easier to manipulate by giving their anger a scapegoat.

When that anger reaches a level that condones or is tollerant of violence that is when the Military Industrial Complex can step into the picture and make personal fortunes off of war.

Every part of these dark days is being manipulated and orchestrated by the Oligarchs who between the few thousand of them control over 90% of the world's wealth and resources.

One of those resources is the governments and they the oligarchs have simply shut off the normal flow of money and resources from them and through them to make the economy contract and people to slide in to a general poverty, hopelessness, dispair, fear and anger.

The governments simply help them by making the people poorer through things like the bailouts which is simply giving taxpayer money to the oligarchs because they claim to need it and will shut everything down if they don't get it. They can and would too and none of them would miss a meal as a result.

Iran really has been a peaceful nation but it managed to throw off Oligarch rule.

That cost the Oligarchs prestige and money and they are never going to forgive that.

The Oligarchs prefer royals rule a land since the royals are Oligarchs in a similiar way as the purely financial ones.

They want to do away with the Iranian Islamic Republic for one simple reason and that is that they can not control or profit off of the Iranian Islamic Republic.

The reality is the Iranian Islamic Republic is a peaceful nation that really poses no harm or threat to anyone Stormdancer except for the harm to the oligarchs wallets and prestige.

All this is being orchestrated and manipulated and as usual when ever something really dunderheaded and underhanded needs done the Oligarchs make it all about the Israelis because the Zionists are expert at keeping debates off of the critical points of logic and to keep them going fruitlessly round and round with emotionally charged circular logic. It also allows them to throw in the Race and Religious Cards which makes for about a 0% chance people will move beyond the endless circular logic argument to confront what is really going on and why.

With people so easily suckered in and intimidated and manipulated there is no chance the transition won't be violent.

The rich will get richer off of it all, the poor will get poorer and deader but they all mostly get the consolation of somehow making it about their religious books in some phony might makes right validated sense of collective superiority kind of way.

The world is so skewered in it's conditioned thinking and false perceptions that the people who promote peace and non-violence are actually villified as representing a real and sinister defeating danger!

The funny thing is if there was a second coming the first thing he would notice is nothing has changed in 2,000 years, the people still don't have a clue as to what they do or why, and he would just end up getting crucified again by the very intollerant people who claim to love him.



[edit on 14/10/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by total newbie
If we had a telepath handy they could read Putin's mind. Absent that, it seems clear to me that if Iran is attacked Russia would resupply her, including military arms.

How do you suppose Iran can be attacked? And what consequences would that have for the US war in Iraq? US cannot win a war against Iran - plain and simple. Any talk about invasion of Iran is nonesense, and the fact that some people are even considering it is alarming. Iran is four times the size of Iraq with over 70 million people - any military strategist planning to invade it has to be out of his mind.

Originally posted by total newbie
But this would put "coalition" forces right on the Black Sea area. The US could then put a missile defense shield right up Putin's nose.

No it would not put them right on the Black Sea. Iran is not near the Black Sea. And what "coalition" would that be? Do you honestly think US will find somebody would dumb enough to sign onto such stunt with the US?

And guess what - US puts a missle defense shield right up Putin's nose, Putin will put missiles to overcome the said shield right up US/NATO's back side.

Originally posted by total newbie
But as was seen in South Ossetia, Putin seems ready to use ss-20s if Russian armored forces are hit with precision munitions, he did not seem to want supply lines cut off to Iran.

SS-20? What? And what supply routes?


[edit on 14-10-2009 by maloy]

People who are blinded by hatred for Israel are delusional.

Now Iran is this peaceful loving nation that's just an innocent bystander. Iran is not a threat to America when it's ran by religious zealots who think just like the terrorist. These zealots can pass very deadly weapons to terrorist who can then use them in America. Terrorist thrive when they have a state to feed off of.

Iran kills people for protesting the election and locks people up. How many people were killed by the government during Bush v. Gore?

Of course you have people in Iran who want peace but you have a government filled with radical extremist and that's being led by a man who thinks it's his mission to usher in some Messiah.

All this is okay for many on the left because of their blind hatred for Israel. Israel is a democracy but they hate Israel so much they think it's okay that religious zealots have access to dangerous weapons.

This is truly a SICK and TWISTED mentality. I don't understand where this irrational hatred comes from. Sometimes I do think it's spiritual because the hatred is so irrational. They can't see the danger of a man who sees lights coming down from Heaven as he speaks and a country ran by religious zealots having nuclear weapons.

The one and only reason they can't see this is because they have this irrational, blind hatred for Israel.

Like I said, if the Vatican wanted Nuclear weapons these same people would be against it on religious grounds. But it's okay for Messianic zealots in Iran to have Nuclear weapons because Israel has a nuclear weapon.

This is truly the definition of insanity.

Do you all see what is happening here?

There is not going to be war between us and Russia. That is obvious.

But what isn't obvious to many people is that other countries has been tossing us around ever since Obama won. A perfect example is this.

You have to realize Israel has ALWAYS struck 1st.

No really...
They have.

reply to post by maloy



You're right it's the Caspian Sea, not the Black Sea. But I think the same reasoning applies.

"Something" almost did happen in August, 2005. US forces were ready to go, green light scrubbed almost the last day August 17, 2005.

Shortly there after Katrina hit, and it seemed to be all forgotten. In October, 2007 Putin pulled all the Russian workers out of Bushehr, looked like a go! He showed up in Iran himself!

The ss-20 is a short range battlefield nuke.

Ahmadinejad DID NOT threaten to "wipe Israel off the mapWatch

www.youtube.com...Watch

[edit on 14-10-2009 by Jsmallz]

[edit on 14-10-2009 by Jsmallz]

reply to post by Matrix Rising


You know, this is like reading a script then watching it play out.

Oh, I get it now, thats why its called scripture, ahhh. (sarcasm)



[edit on 15-10-2009 by XXXN3O]

Does any of this sound familiar to anyone, does anyone read or are they visually being taught what is and what is not.

"Naturally the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship, or a paliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the poeple can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
This is easy. All you have to do is to sell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."


Reich-Marshall Hermann Göring Nuremburg Trials WWII

[edit on 15-10-2009 by tristar]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


"Dude man, you need to take a chill pill
How come this huge burst of emotion always happens when Israel is mentioned???? "

I'll tell you why, because this hatred toward Israel is going to cause a world war. After centuries of oppression, slavery, torture, and murder, Jews have earned the right to be left alone. The Persians were guilty of slavery, torture and murder of the Jews, I think that gives Jews the right to fear them.
I'll take a chill pill when this website stops attacking Jews, in other words, never.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by sickofitall2012]

Originally posted by tristar
Does any of this sound familiar to anyone, does anyone read or are they visually being taught what is and what is not.

"Naturally the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship, or a paliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the poeple can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
This is easy. All you have to do is to sell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."


Reich-Marshall Hermann Göring Nuremburg Trials WWII

[edit on 15-10-2009 by tristar]

The NAZIS WERE NOT Pacifists!

Can we all say together what a great way of cornering the Natural Gas supply

and market to Europe with Russia and Iran the controllers. Do as we say or

else you are cut off. ^Y^

Originally posted by sickofitall2012
I'll tell you why, because this hatred toward Israel is going to cause a world war. After centuries of oppression, slavery, torture, and murder, Jews have earned the right to be left alone.

I think the question is... After centuries of oppression, slavery, torture, and murder does that give Israel the right to Oppress, torture and murder?

Originally posted by slipknotrules2009
Ya we better not mess with Putin he just looks mean and wouldn't even think twice when he says get the Tsar's ready for launch to America.

Sorry but I think Russia would squash us fast, if we go at it with Russia then are other emenys will attack us all at once destroying us quick.

I am sorry what?

Just to all, I am nor Russian nor American lover, but looking at the military capabilities the Russians could have been considered to be some form of a major world military player in the latest 60's and 80's but oh boy since the break up of USSR and during their latest invasion of Georgia give them a break they can't even manoeuvre their tank brigades without vodka induced souls on their armour pierceable tanks and APC's.

By the time the Russian's would have reached the American shores, they'd be singing peace treaty with the fishes of the Bermuda sea.

The only viably possible threat that Russia posses is the capability of enacting a nuclear war, as a last resort of course.

However looking at the latest military expansions of the post era USSR equipment it is worth keeping an eye on them, but nothing to worry about now.

USA military has a major dominance in the air and naval capabilities.

reply to post by krystalice



In all fairness...

Although I would agree there is a lot of over the top Russian Idolization that takes place here at ATS. I would not go as far as saying they are a conventional paper tiger.

The Russians can fight.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Slayer69 don't get me wrong I am not trying to voice my opinion against your statement, I am just stating the obvious so to speak

Yes certainly Russians like any formally trained soldier can fight. But it is the technology that wins brains in the war now days. Long were the days of conventional man-to-man warfare and tensing of muscles to gain an inch of land. Now its all strategically electronic that a warfare is planned and carried out.

End of the day, in order to sustain a stable economic growth it is best set aside the disputes over the table with subliminal messages during conference meetings.





[edit on 10/15/2009 by krystalice]

[edit on 10/15/2009 by krystalice]

Originally posted by krystalice
Yes certainly Russians like any formally trained soldier can fight. But it is the technology that wins brains in the war now days. Long were the days of conventional man-to-man warfare and tensing of muscles to gain an inch of land. Now its all strategically electronic that a warfare is planned and carried out.

Ok so US has by far the most technologically advanced army with all sorts of electronic systems and equipment. So how come it is so difficult to get Iraq and especially Afghanistan under control? The fact is no amount of technology and advanced systems will help one win a war against rebels/insurgents. And almost every war these days is guaranteed to spiral out into a guerilla struggle, if one side cannot win through conventional means.

Technology is a big plus, when everybody fights by the rules. But you should not overestimate its advantages, nor should you rely on it too much. In the end war today is still for the most part the same war as 50, or 100, or 300 years ago. The side that ultimately pervails is the one with strongest determination and/or largest demographic "resources".

US cannot win an all out conflict with Russia, nor can Russia win a conflict with US. The same goes for a conflict with Iran. Too big and too hardheaded to defeat. War is out of the question for all sides.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


"Iran is not a threat to America when..."

Iran is not a threat to America under ANY circumstances.

"it's ran by religious zealots"

That's funny, the whole prefix of Zionism is that God promised that land, this is the main justification, particularly for European "Jews" who are as Hebrew as rats. Currently, Israel is being governed by men of this thought. Who is a religious zealot again? Please don't endow in hypocrisy.

"These zealots can pass very deadly weapons to terrorist who can then use them in America"

You mean like the US giving weapons to Israel so they can attack the USS liberty? This, unlike the paranoia of Iran attacking America (what for?) has already happened, and will continue to happen if "Americans" like you continue to unilaterally support Israel. I just wonder if only the death of your own family member would wake you up? Jewish terrorism already exists, the idea of Iran attacking America is far-fetched fantasy.

"Iran kills people for protesting the election and locks people up"

The Mossad kills its own dissent citizens and spies on Americans, discrimination is rampant, and the government spends $800,000 promoting a Nazi-like policy trying to convince "Jews" not to marry non-"Jews". I am no way excusing the terrible actions of the evil Iranian government, but again, do not endow in hypocrisy.

"How many people were killed by the government during Bush v. Gore?"

Is this a trick question? Seriously?

"his mission to usher in some Messiah."

That's actually more sane than genocide of a people, stealing their land, and claiming it was given to you by God. Mind you European "Jews" are as Hebrew as a ham sandwich. The Palestinians are actually more related to the natives of that land, how sad the Christians completely missed it.

"blind hatred for Israel"

The hatred is not for Israel, mind you only Zionists legitimise a country called Israel, the hatred is for the "Israeli" government responsible for the apartheid state of Palestine. It's not blind either.

"But it's okay for Messianic zealots in Iran to have Nuclear weapons because Israel has a nuclear weapon."

Yes, it is perfectly okay for Iran to have nuclear weapons if Israel has them. Israel is a Jewish state, Iran is an Islamic state. Both are religious, but actually only one of those countries were legitimised by their leaders as a divine will from God. That country is more dangerous to the world, and that country is Israel. Otherwise, it is known as hypocrisy. There is no room for political hypocrisy.