The Most Important Psychology Experiment That’s Never Been Done

The most important experiment that’s never been done is to take an MRI or
PET scans of people as they die; either those who really do go on to die, or those who suffer clinical death but are resuscitated. If this were done we would be able to test theories about how NDEs and mystical experiences are generated in the dying brain

From this article:
The Most Important Psychology Experiment That’s Never Been Done

This is just the opinion of one of the posters on the site, but I thought I would bring it over to ATS for discussion.

The reason it hasn't been done is obviously because the doctors are more concerned with saving the life, not examining the death. But what do you suppose would come out of a catscan or MRI at the moment of death? I am really interested to know, but it would take a set up scenerio where someone who was terminal agreed to have this done.


From this article:
What Happens When We Die?

Because there is a lack of blood flow, the cells go into a kind of a frenzy to keep themselves alive. And within about 5 min. or so they start to damage or change. After an hour or so the damage is so great that even if we restart the heart again and pump blood, the person can no longer be viable, because the cells have just been changed too much. And then the cells continue to change so that within a couple of days the body actually decomposes. So it's not a moment; it's a process that actually begins when the heart stops and culminates in the complete loss of the body, the decompositions of all the cells. However, ultimately what matters is, What's going on to a person's mind? What happens to the human mind and consciousness during death? Does that cease immediately as soon as the heart stops? Does it cease activity within the first 2 sec., the first 2 min.? Because we know that cells are continuously changing at that time. Does it stop after 10 min., after half an hour, after an hour? And at this point we don't know.

So what would the scan see??

-E-

[edit on 16-9-2009 by MysterE]

Ethical Issues.

Plain and simple, the only reason I can see why not to do it.

And I don't think the exact moment can be predicted.

Which could mean someone spending their last moments under a machine, for days. Or unless there could be a simpler way, which I can't think of.

Remember Phenomenon the movie, John Travoltas hides because they want to take his brain, and have him die early so it can be studied.

And he said this.

"WHAT if I have something to say, something very important at my dying moment!"

Spoke volumes for a movie.

reply to post by Republican08


Definately not ethical, which is probably why we will never find out, but It sure would be interesting to know!

-E-

If I may add a bit to this.

Why do scientists sit here and discuss "Death" when they most CERTAINLY have been taught that "The law of conservation of energy states that the total amount of energy in a closed system remains constant. A consequence of this law is that energy cannot be created nor destroyed. The only thing that can happen with energy in a closed system is that it can change form, for instance kinetic energy can become thermal energy."

thats from wikipedia. So why are they trying to tell us that we "DIE???" Clearly we DO NOT.

I dont claim ANY religion, for all religions are man made, but I have un-shakable FAITH in God. God says we do not die.

Its clearly a part of something "Other," so, I dont think we should even pay ANY attention to this.

reply to post by Codazzle


What?

By that logic, apples don't die.

Originally posted by MysterE
reply to post by Republican08

 

Definately not ethical, which is probably why we will never find out, but It sure would be interesting to know!

-E-

I mean, if we could have a volunteer thing for this, it might with some judgement from the courts, be okayed.

I of course, would definitely do it, but I don't think they want to wait for 100 years (very optimistic).

But if someone was of sound mind and judgement and volunteered for it, knowing it was inevitably close, like that week.

We could only than have to have it okayed by the family, and make sure a law wasn't passed saying that blah blah blah.

Or incase there is one already, we'd have to find a way to change it!

reply to post by Republican08


Technically, the matter that comprises the apple (or anything else organic for that matter) will essentially go back from whence it came (the ground) and become a part of the web of life once again, albeit likely in a very different form and sort of spread about here and there.

Matter cannot be destroyed, only changed right?

Originally posted by mpriebe81
reply to post by Republican08

 

Technically, the matter that comprises the apple (or anything else organic for that matter) will essentially go back from whence it came (the ground) and become a part of the web of life once again, albeit likely in a very different form and sort of spread about here and there.

Matter cannot be destroyed, only changed right?

Right, and in the book it's either "Mindful Universe" or "Hidden Dimensions". I don't feel like skimming through both, but go ahead and buy them there good.

A claim is made from a professor, where he says "Believe it or not, right now, one of william shakespears' atoms are in you right now, working for you, and not him" because he is dead.

So in that essence, we aren't "Alive" but we are not gone, we are just different. But we die, when the brain dies, or when we go brain dead.

Right now, I just scratched my nose, and committed a holocaust. Millions of other peoples atoms where in those, and now there gone, and not a part of me.

They will of course, go elsewhere now.

We are all like a cigarette, of course, when you smoke a cigarette, it becomes ash, it's no longer a cigarette, it can no longer be claimed as a cigarette, and you sure as hell can't smoke it again.

well that doesnt mean someone has not done it in the past, I am sure there is a whole hell of a lot of things that have been tested that you or I have no idea

reply to post by Republican08


I would volunteer to be killed and revived within 60 seconds in a controlled setting with MRIs running. Just for the hell of it. But my condition would be that I would want a couple of weeks worth of activity cataloged for comparison, just in case I don't make it.

I mean if the human mind runs after our heart stops wouldn't it be interesting to know what it's like? Does our mind act the same way as if we have peanut butter stuck to the roof of our mouth? Nobody knows...

The iron in your blood originates from exploding stars billions of years ago, in fact all elements heavier than hydrogen have formed by nuclear fusion in stars. Therefore any conservation of energy, or matter cannot be destroyed does not mean life is conserved in the process.

The heat we give off escapes to the surroundings and dissipates, much in the same way our brain's electrical characteristics will do after death.

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
well that doesnt mean someone has not done it in the past, I am sure there is a whole hell of a lot of things that have been tested that you or I have no idea

yeah like the monkey who had wires connected in his brain and a push button for "orgasm" every 2 mins. All strange and true at the same time!

reply to post by digger2381


lol nice comparison.

I do wonder to what the brain would do.

I know that it does awkward things when pushed to limites, starvation, extreme cold/heat, fear.

The only good that can come out of this experiment is that knowledge comes out of it.

And well it's hard to get the general public on side with that

Edit to add: Especially with God fearing people, who see this as a waste of time.

See above

[edit on 16-9-2009 by Republican08]

Originally posted by john124
yeah like the monkey who had wires connected in his brain and a push button for "orgasm" every 2 mins.

All strange and true at the same time!

I'll sign up for that Lab Experiment any day! I'd be hitting that feeder bar more frequently than once every 2 minutes though!

I've already died and been resuscitated so I personally would pass on the other experiment of being killed and resuscitated repeatedly in the name of science. It was so not fun the first and only time I went through death and resuscitation.

Although I may have no fear of death, I now have an autonomic biological response any time I am near the trigger that caused my accidental death. Considering it's a common object, it's not really a lot of fun hyperventilating and having severe anxiety attacks you can't consciously control just about every day. I've even tried to systematically overcome it, but after 30 years of trying, I'm resigned to acquiesce that it's just how we are hardwired and it is something that Logic, Reason, and Will cannot override.

That which kills us our body will hardwire itself to avoid to prevent a repeat occurrence. It's a defense/survival mechanism of our Reptilian brain/R-Complex.

Probably not the best experiment to perform on Humans thus.

Although I personally never understood the Western Medical fascination with the premise that indicators of a Soul or Spirit might exist in the Brain. Of all of the 13 different Souls that the Ancient Egyptians had, and all of the Organs they retained in Canopic Jars after Death, the Brain was not one of them. The Brain was liquefied and cast aside because it's only function was to control the Physical Body...nothing more. If Western Medicine wants to capture an MRI that may indicate the presence of the Human Spirit or Soul they should monitor the Heart or the Liver instead!

Originally posted by john124

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
well that doesnt mean someone has not done it in the past, I am sure there is a whole hell of a lot of things that have been tested that you or I have no idea

yeah like the monkey who had wires connected in his brain and a push button for "orgasm" every 2 mins.

All strange and true at the same time!

I hate to sound mindless but I dont think I could resist mashing that button all day every day because I'd give into the pleasures and the temptation. How can you not?

reply to post by Spidercow


"Need INPUT!"

-Short Circuit 2 lol

I was once in an MRI for 3 different 45 minute intervals, where thumb screws were applied to my thumbs. Im not joking haha.....they stopped when I said stop....or at least the pressure would lighten.
I have fibromyalgia and I was working with some Dr's who wanted to watch how my brain processes pain, and see if there were notable differences in non fibromyalgia brains. This was done in a highly clinical setting, at the research park complex of the U of U. I was compensated if you wonder why I would do that.........lol and it was the type of testing I would be inclined to help with as it did not include testing some new drug or other.

So when I read the OP I kinda related in some way to the possible MRI death contestant.

I tried to sign up to be an orgasm monkey but they did not want me for that................bummer.

Plus I bet that orgasm monkeys don't get paid.
Someone aught to ask MirthfulMe cuz I don't know these simian related things.



[edit on 17-9-2009 by theRiverGoddess]

Originally posted by Codazzle
If I may add a bit to this.

Why do scientists sit here and discuss "Death" when they most CERTAINLY have been taught that "The law of conservation of energy states that the total amount of energy in a closed system remains constant. A consequence of this law is that energy cannot be created nor destroyed. The only thing that can happen with energy in a closed system is that it can change form, for instance kinetic energy can become thermal energy."

thats from wikipedia. So why are they trying to tell us that we "DIE???" Clearly we DO NOT.

I dont claim ANY religion, for all religions are man made, but I have un-shakable FAITH in God. God says we do not die.

Its clearly a part of something "Other," so, I dont think we should even pay ANY attention to this.

They tell us we die, because we do die.

The human body is not a closed system at all, nor does it create or destroy energy. Energy is nothing more than the kinetic or potential force that matter exerts upon matter, it is not some substance separate from matter.

Obviously the thought that matter and energy can never be created nor destroyed is false to a varying degree, else our universe would not exist. The universe had to come from something or just could have always existed. We don't know. To claim supreme deity is more logical is ridiculous when one considers that even deity should come from somewhere. Yet if deity has always existed, then one cannot logically argue against the universe as always existing.

reply to post by MysterE


I think that we can answer the question that consciousness is not a product of the anatomy of the human brain(with a certain individual) or that even though the picture is on the television screen it does not mean that the programming originated inside the T.V.(with this individual). As a conspiracy moment for this subject let me quote Paul Davies About Time and my own precognitive dream about the February 1, 2003 Columbia Tragedy "It is a dream of the nonordinary, experiential access to a precognitive event contained within the dimensions of the human psyche. It is also a dream containing a looming archetypal image of a UFO, an extraordinary telescopic view of the NASA space shuttle in orbit, a huge permeable cargo net, and a deep sense of the profound." "David Deutsch once remarked that the history of science is the story of physics "hijacking(or off-world cargo)" topics from philosophy(or Bertrand Russell eminent philosopher and Mathematician). The subject of consciousness may be the next on the list." About Time Paul Davies It is however a strange coincidence that UFOLOGIST DR. RICHARD BOYLAN WILL NOT ENTERTAIN CERTAIN IDEAS and you know as well as I that not all the athorities in christendom can alter natural law. Christendom is a reference to the whole mechanistic western world. Definitely this individual should be pursued for verifiable experimentation of the flowing ebb of Elan Vital. "What we need is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out, which is exactly the opposite." Bertrand Russell 1872-1970

reply to post by MysterE


You might find this interesting......

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Peace.