Why we need Government-run Universal Socialized Health Care

This video does a GREAT job of describing the situation and comparing it to current Universal services being provided by the Government.

[edit on 16-9-2009 by HunkaHunka]

[edit on 16-9-2009 by HunkaHunka]

You do realize that all the "Universal Government run Socialized" services he listed are not run by the federal government right? USPS is the only one that is actually run by the government and it is a very poor system. All the rest are run by either state or local governments.

Originally posted by Sliick
You do realize that all the "Universal Government run Socialized" services he listed are not run by the federal government right? USPS is the only one that is actually run by the government and it is a very poor system. All the rest are run by either state or local governments.

Yep, but they are ran by the GOV regardless of if its state or federal.

I didn't realize that it being ran by the Federal Gov was the biggest issue those opposed had with it. I thought they just didn't want Gov ran healthcare at all.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


You are forgetting that the whole health care bill is build upon lies and corruption, is not such thing as a public option because Republican been funded by private insurance business doesn't want it, and is not such thing as government run universal health care.

Is just a lie, this about private insurance take over tax payer choices.

That is why I have never been in favor of anything that the government has been working on because is all lies.

Yes we need a public option because without public option is not such thing as health care reform, but it will never become Universal Socialized health care, too many corrupted politicians in the pockets of big private companies.

look at the financial bailouts it had nothing to do with government take over it was nothing but another hoax to gouge tax payer to pay for the mistakes of the financial business.

We are nothing but suckers to those running Government this days and we fall for it every single time, fighting for the wrong reasons.
.

I tell you what...

there are going to be A LOT of disappointed people on this site because things are going to CHANGE even more as we move forward.

America will turn to socialized health care, and society will change to the point where we are much more FOR each other than AGAINST each other.

No doubt there will be violence leading up to it... but such are the birth pangs of societal emergence.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
I tell you what...

there are going to be A LOT of disappointed people on this site because things are going to CHANGE even more as we move forward.

America will turn to socialized health care, and society will change to the point where we are much more FOR each other than AGAINST each other.

No doubt there will be violence leading up to it... but such are the birth pangs of societal emergence.

More for each other than against each other? We probably will be more for each other.... as we huddle together to protect ourselves from a massivly intrusive federal government,that has exceeded its origional mandate. What does it take for people to understand that the greater the control the government has over our lives.....The less control we have over our lives. When you hand over your right to control your own destiny...you have essentially become a slave.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

America will turn to socialized health care, and society will change to the point where we are much more FOR each other than AGAINST each other.

You really believe that socialized healthcare will pull us together. Not debating you, just intrigued that you would think this.

Could you elaborate more on how soc. healthcare will accomplish this?

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

America will turn to socialized health care, and society will change to the point where we are much more FOR each other than AGAINST each other.

You really believe that socialized healthcare will pull us together. Not debating you, just intrigued that you would think this.

Could you elaborate more on how soc. healthcare will accomplish this?

Thanks in advance.

My belief is that socialized healthcare is a manifestation of our own individual concern for each other.

The opponents I have heard have had a couple of reasons for their opposition.

1. Don't want gov involved (even though gov runs fire, police, rescue, roads etc and I don't hear opposition to that)
2. Feel that they shouldn't have to take care of anyone but themselves.
3. A few other reasons exist as well, but these seem to be the biggest two.

The second one is antithetical to wanting to assist your fellow man.

Now I don't believe that socialized healthcare will precipitate one's concern for his fellow man (although it can help by removing some serious fears), but that it will be the result of it. I also believe that there are only two options moving forward, we either pledge to eachother that not only will we fund police, fire, rescue and public works, but also healthcare... or we will continue to be a divided cultureless nation.

I for one operate from the stance of "What can I do for you?"

I know many others do not operate from this stance, but many others also do.

reply to post by Sliick


Money troubles aside USPS is actually run very well. As someone who used to do 500k of shipping a year, I know.

USPS is the cheapest, fastest, most reliable, and most importantly the least damage, out of all the shipping services.

Other then DHL, I only use USPS.

Aw, that's such a cute video! It has little stick men and everything!

What it lacks is truth and understanding of the problem. Let me address a few points:

• Health care is a service everyone needs but no one (or at least few) can afford.
  True, but there are other things that fall into that category. How many people can't afford nice homes? Isn't it a real need to have a house that doesn't have leaks in the roof, or that has the most modern and efficient climate-control system? I would think that anyone with compassion would want others to have a decent home. Why do we not simply give people places to live?
  
  Oh, wait, we do... it's called Welfare and specifically HUD Section 8 housing. You know, the slums...
  
  
• Private business is more wasteful than government programs because of profit.
  Let's take a lok at the military... you know, the ones who recently spent a billion dollars per plane for fighter jets that malfunctioned when it rained. $1,000,000,000.00. Each. And it doesn't work in the rain. Now that's efficiency for you.
  
  How about the $200 toilet seats? $100 hammers? How about the $10,000 PCs? How about massively wasteful expenses, such as throwing out an entire ream of paper because a few sheets on top are torn? How about spending hundreds of dollars on oversight to make sure no one takes a stapler home?
  
  We are talking about the government here. The Federal government. The single most wasteful and inefficient entity in the country. Get a grip!
  
  
• Insurance companies can dictate coverage.
  Actually, the only way an insurance company can dictate what is and is not covered is by including such in the fine print. If you read and comprehend the conditions of your policy, you cannot be denied. Worst case, you have to sue and the insurance company gets the shaft. And you can always say "no, thanks" and find a better insurer.
  
  Government, on the other hand, can dictate by law what you will and will not accept. Once a law is passed, the individual has no recourse except to follow that law (or pay the penalty, which can include jail time!). No one goes to jail as it is right now for not listening to their insurer.
  
  
• Mostly wealthy investors invest in insurance companies.
  Oh, I guess someone forgot that mutual funds, the backbone of the common 401k or retirement plan, can be invested in insurance companies.
  
  This is a outright, bald-faced lie.
  
  
• Medicare is a shining example of efficiency.
  Medicare, via governmental decree (see explanation of a law above), has limited the payout to doctors for different conditions and treatments. These limits are typically well below the normal cost. So one reason doctors charge the rest of us so much is that this shining example of governmental efficiency isn't paying the full cost, and everyone else gets to make up the difference. Medicare actually increases the overall cost of health care for everyone. Now, what do you think will happen when there is no more more private sector to make up for that shortfall? I'll tell you: less doctors, and worse doctors. Those who are tops in their field will seek practice elsewhere, and those now considering a career in the heath care industry will have second thoughts about entering into an occupation where the sacrifices outweigh the rewards.
  
  
• Comparison between Police, Fire, and water services.
  Police departments require authority to operate as a governmental agency. You cannot be legally arrested by a private entity (you may be detained in certain cases until public police are able to respond). You cannot be legally forced to forfeit property or money by a private company. These are actions that by law and Constitutional decree require governmental sanction, and to avoid conflict of interest, they are not available to non-governmental entities.
  
  Fire departments do require, in some jurisdiction, payment in order to operate should you have a fire. Usually, in those jurisdictions I am familiar with, they offer a payment plan which insures you in case of a fire, sometimes at a pretty hefty rate. Should you have a fire without that protection, the Fire Department will put it out, but then they will bill you for the actual cost of doing so, which can be as devastating as a high medical bill. something like a hospital having to treat you, but then you having to pay an outrageous bill...
  
  Water Authorities are, well, sorry to put it this frankly, purveyors of recycled toxified sewage. Some are among the top water polluters in the nation. Almost all of them use both chlorine (main component of mustard gas; considered a hazardous material by the USDOT; highly toxic, the very reason it is used to treat, i.e. kill all life in, water) and fluoride (the most active oxidizer known in chemistry) in the water you drink.
  
  All of the above, as has been already mentioned, are locally-operated. There is one exception, in the area of the Police: The CIA and FBI are the Federal Police. Shades of George H. W. Bush!
  
  
  Now would you want the likes of Bush Sr. running health care? I mean, he did such a wonderful job with the Federal Police...
  
  
• The comparison between a Fire Department response and an insurance response.
  Nice way to show exactly why anti-fraud measures need to be implemented against insurers, and nice way to completely miss that point after making it and instead demand that government should just do it all instead of doing their part.
  
  It is the responsibility of the Federal government to ensure that fraud in commerce does not exist, both by custom and by Constitutional decree ("ensure justice").
  
  The present plan being bantered through Congress mandates insurance coverage by every person in the US. It does not give you free health care; it gives you another bill. So if you are not insured now because you can't afford it, guess what? You now will be able to pay that bill you can't afford, even if it means you get the privilege of going without such luxuries as eating, and quite possibly you'll get to also pay a hefty fine if you're late paying that bill. In the meantime, those insurance companies will be enjoying the windfall of 100% mandated customer participation.
  
  Yeah, that makes sense.
  NOT!

All that from watching this video through once. I have to ask: was this intended to be a comedy?

TheRedneck


[edit on 9/16/2009 by TheRedneck]

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by Sliick

 

Money troubles aside USPS is actually run very well. As someone who used to do 500k of shipping a year, I know.

USPS is the cheapest, fastest, most reliable, and most importantly the least damage, out of all the shipping services.

Other then DHL, I only use USPS.

I do a lot of shipping as well, (not much as you used to), and USPS Priority is one of the best deals going.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Yes, actually, that's the main reason I am opposed to it.

Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Yes, actually, that's the main reason I am opposed to it.

So you are saying that if it were still governmental ran, but mandated by the federal gov and ran by the states instead you wouldn't have an issue with it?

I'd have to say that it would provide a 50 state experiment in which each state can attempt to do it there own way and we *could* find the best way.

[edit on 16-9-2009 by HunkaHunka]

I commend you Hunka for putting your opinion out there with an explanation and some video as to why you feel the way you do.

However, I absolutely cannot agree with you on this subject.
The Redneck pretty much spelled out my reasons against government-run
healthcare, chief among them the incredibly wasteful nature of spending in the Federal Gov't.

And where the hell are they going to come up with the money for all of this?
Do they plan on taxing us even more than they currently do? Another bailout?
Just print some more???

I mean it is mind-boggling that the BIG issue right now is healthcare.
With everything going on, our economy going down the tubes, our dollar plummeting, the ongoing wars, a rising unemployment rate, continued housing foreclosures, the decline of western civilization in general...

But NOW we're going to do something about the healthcare issue that people have been screaming about for years. Makes sense to me

reply to post by HunkaHunka


No, the federal government should not be involved. Individual states should devise their own plans, a la Massachusetts. On the federal level, I think there should be a law prohibiting health insurance companies from denying services to their members.

reply to post by mpriebe81


Thank you for the mutual respect.

One of the reasons we are focusing on healthcare is directly tied to the economy.

By expanding the "group" that is the public option, Miedicare costs decrease greatly due to not only collective bargaining but also because we would reap the benefit of lower phrama costs..

That's not necessarily one of the reasons why I'm for a public option, but it is a tidbit I have picked up along the way. That and the number of bankruptcies caused by healthcare issues can't be good for the economy in general.

So I do believe there are some direct connections to the current economic crisis and a public option.

I hope we get government-run universal socialized health care too. That way I can go to the ER for my hardened lymph nodes and suck up 2 hrs of a doctor's time when he could be helping someone else. Then all these other people who don't take care of themselves can come in and out of the hospital and suck up valuable resources too. Free money for everyone!

And it'll help the economy. Just think. One critically ill patient requires several doctors (pulmonary, renal, cardiac, hemotology, infectious diseases, etc), lab techs, x-ray techs, nurses, dieticians, house keepers, aids, etc. That's just one patient! Think if we have entire buildings, neighborhoods, cities!!! full of really sick people! Nevermind why these people are sick. That'll be ridiculous conspiracy theory, and we don't need to look at the past. We need to take care of now, and all these sick people with chronic diseases need help now!

So I propose that we issue treasury bonds on sick people. The financial incentive to keep these people alive will remove any need for death panels. After all, dead people don't make money. Sick people do! And all those healthy people need work, and work equals taxes, and taxes can be used to pay (not pay off) bonds.

See, problem solved. No one ever dies. Everyone is happy. Government grows, and personal liberties are destroyed. Hooray!

reply to post by HunkaHunka


I am curious why you and others believe that it has to be Government run?

Originally posted by harvib
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

I am curious why you and others believe that it has to be Government run?

To remove profit from the equation.

That's the most specific reason.

Sorry to burst the bubble but the government is not trying to run anything the whole entire health care reform is about privatization of consumers choices.

Get it, is not such thing as government running health care, go back and read the bill, this about private insurance providing all the coverage under government mandatory health care, wake up people because like I said you are fighting for the wrong reasons.