Overthrow the democratically elected president, "how patriotic"

Originally posted by bigshow


Please do some research before you post. Look at this information

www.ncsl.org...

There is the answer to your answer.

Yeah, like I said there is NO such thing as a recall or "Federal elected officials" PERIOD. Ill bet that made ya feel real good adding that lil dig "try doing some research" as If I am just talkin out my butt.

Pay Attention, ok? The next time you give someone advice like that, make sure the research you give, doesn't corroborate the other guys answer ESPECIALLY when you get cocky with it.

READ YOUR OWN RESEARCH. NO where does it talk about Elected officials in the house and senate. Just State and local officials like Governors and mayors. Yeah you can re-call them, but their is no such thing as a recall process for a senator or President.

So practice what you preach and do your own homework and stop advising others when you have no clue about the subject matter.

Again, No such thing as a recall for on the federal level

Ask yourself why Bush was never recalled

Answer
Once elected and after Congress has certified the Electoral votes, a President of The United States may only be removed from office by Impeachment, or by the more prudent means of resignation ( a la Richard Nixon).

Richard Nixon was the only United States President to be removed from office.

If it were that easy, you think all these tea bag people would be wasting their time doing that rather then getting a recall petition that actually worked, started? You don't think 70% of Americans would not have had Bush out on his ass along with Cheney if a silly little thing like a recall could be accomplished?

You don't think when Billy Clinton looked straight into the eyes of Americas voting public and said "I did not have sex with that girl" or ( I am a liar and a cheat to the most important person in my life) it wouldn't have had Americans trying to recall his butt too?

I know you have SEEN many recal petitions on line, but they are about as credible as Obama's COLB is online.

They are just a legend in the minds of followers and do not get an traction what so ever if you actually know what the law is on both removing them from office and knowing they should have never been elected in the first place if Natural Born Citizen means anything. I see SG talking a good game about that and using his alleged superior understanding of constitutional laws. What makes Barack Obama a NBC SG?

Can you share that with us or are you going to dance around that one saying it doesn't make it clear what it is?

I sure hope so because if you know what a natural born citizen is NOT, then it begins to shed a whole new light on the idea.





[edit on 14-9-2009 by Stylez]

I get a chuckle when any one wanting reform NOW is a racist or righty right southern baptist gun toting did i say racist bible thumper..

I for one have sat for the past 13 years of my adult life,im 31 you do the math, idly by not liking any administration in DC...Not saying its not needed it sorely is..BUT as any power over you they tend to play to their fiddle not yours..Even if you have the same lable as the POTUS he has been the figure head to rule ''his'' minions through the lower levels of government and citizenship..

I laugh at people who get all glassy eyed over a dem or republican in office..I really do..It took 3 months for me to figure out if Barry was a dem..I dont put anystock into partisanship..

Partisenship is just a another form of division..Any form of division that conguers up hate,yes hate for another just because they have different veiws is sickning..

My patriotism goes withot bloodshed as some may know here..I love my country to death,almost happened more than once,but the machine of government has out grown the britches it is wearing..

As the enlightning words of the Joker..First Batman,
''This Town needs an ENEMA''..as DC really does..

[edit on 14-9-2009 by Redpillblues]

Originally posted by Redpillblues
I get a chuckle when any one wanting reform NOW is a racist or righty right southern baptist gun toting did i say racist bible thumper..

I for one have sat for the past 13 years of my adult life,im 31 you do the math, idly by not liking any administration in DC...Not saying its not needed it sorely is..BUT as any power over you they tend to play to their fiddle not yours..Even if you have the same lable as the POTUS he has been the figure head to rule ''his'' minions through the lower levels of government and citizenship..

I laugh at people who get all glassy eyed over a dem or republican in office..I really do..It took 3 months for me to figure out if Barry was a dem..I dont put anystock into partisanship..

Partisenship is just a another form of division..Any form of division that conguers up hate,yes hate for another just because they have different veiws is sickning..

My patriotism goes withot bloodshed as some may know here..I love my country to death,almost happened more than once,but the machine of government has out grown the britches it is wearing..

As the enlightning words of the Joker..First Batman,
''This Town needs an ENEMA''..as DC really does..

[edit on 14-9-2009 by Redpillblues]

Yep I agree we need to purge the entire house and senate clean of all the entrenched BS rooted so deep in corruption and good ole boy politics.

I always said Bush was a middle of the road democrat and was used to piss everyone off at the republican party. lot of them do that kinda stuff.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Im really refering to you and those you claim to agree with you. You stated "this isnt about constitutional rights" so then what is it about? You want to overthrow the president of the United states completely ignoring the constitutional guidelines?

I don’t think you understand my position. I do not care about overthrowing the president of this country, nor have I ever said this. What I am saying is unless you have “buy off” from TPTB, regardless of it is IMPOSSIBLE to remove the president of the United States from office. The constitution does not matter because the constitution does not control anything, nor does it decide the flow of power. Therefore, it is not about constitutional rights but being cognizant of the fact you’re powerless and playing along in a magnificent charade.

You claim the people in power dont give a damn about the constitution and yet you yourself dont give a damn either?

No, I don’t give a damn about it because it’s a piece of paper that has limited to no use in my life. In fact, it’s a piece of paper that many people have obviously wiped their backsides with, some would even say that’s why this country is in the mess it’s in now.

If somebody was fairly elected vai the constitution, and you overthrew them due to your own suspicions, against the will of the people, of the electors, of the constitution, are you upholding the will of the founding fathers? How can you accuse those in power of ignoring the constitution when you yourself disregard it for your own conclusions? You are no different the the enemy you claim to oppose.

Your entire premise hangs on the assumption that the Barry O was elected via the constitution. What you fail to see is several times I’ve said he was not elected but selected by TPTB. Knowing this to be true, I’m not disregarding anything for my own conclusions, but disregarding it based on what is plainly obvious. If those in power are ignoring it, and they have the means to ignore it, and continue to ignore it, why should I have faith in it or pretend it has value when it doesn’t? You seem to not comprehend that we are playing by a different set of rules here. They aren’t bringing guns to a gun fight. They are bringing bombers, nukes, tanks, brigades, bio and chemical weapons and everything else to the fight. The constitution is a butter knife to them, and anyone attempting to use it as some tool of power and unity has no clue about how our world operates.

You claim the people in power are not supporters of the constitution, and because of this claim you use this as excuse to ignore the constitution itself. That is nothing of what a constitutionalist would do.

No, I don’t use that claim as an excuse to ignore the constitution. As previously stated, to me, the constitution is a piece of paper that happens to be a work in progress (WIP). Even though it is a WIP, it means nothing to me, as I do not hold the belief that a piece of paper gives me rights, nor am I of the belief that a piece of paper protects me. However, the elite throwing it out the window is simply icing on the cake and enough for me to see we’re playing by a different set of rules. Finally, do yourself a favor and read what I said about constitutionalist. Read it several times, because I don’t think you understand what I’m conveying.

I agree, there are those in government who do not favour the constitution, however you have an obligation as an american to uphold the constitution and reference its guidelines if given the opportunity to impeach.

No, I have no obligation as a citizen of this country to uphold the constitution and reference its guidelines or any other mandate.

You are really no different from those who trample of the constitution if you ignore it for your own personal conclusions.

No, based on my assessment, the assessments of others and the handwriting on the wall, I’m ignoring it. If you want to cling on to it as a pacifier of sorts be my guest.

Well then you are no supporter for the "republic". If this is the case, what are you a supporter of?

There is no “republic.” I have two words for you. PLUTOCRACY. HEGEMONY.

And to answer your question, I am a supporter of EMPIRE.


[edit on 14-9-2009 by EMPIRE]

With all due respect empire, considering all the complexities of a small group of people trying to control the world through third party installed puppet leaders and the like, and all the wrench's and hell just look at any football play on a chalk board they always show who does this and who does that and who goes here, who goes there, blocks this guy or that guy etc. They always end up as a touch down on the board.

When you get on the field and add the human element, then it gets a little crazy and MOST of those chalk board plays are failures.

Now consider that play only ten thousand times more complicated and times that by the billions of players while giving second hand information to the coach who tells the puppets in the locker room the extravagant play on the chalk board that requires miles of board and mega tons of chalk.

Then take all that and throw it out there with the human element not even believing a play even exists much less the one the powers that be have tried to get us to play using subliminal divide and conquer methods of keeping us pre-oocupied while they try to sneak one by us.

Seems a pretty asnine and particularly inefficient means of control, wouldn't you say?

I mean I like pretty much all the stuff you post but lately the PTB stuff is a little hard to believe and has an achilles heel that makes it such a false dichotomy in the grand scheme of things I just can't see how they could even pull such a thing off with out help, much less without it.

Originally posted by Stylez
With all due respect empire, considering all the complexities of a small group of people trying to control the world through third party installed puppet leaders and the like, and all the wrench's and hell just look at any football play on a chalk board they always show who does this and who does that and who goes here, who goes there, blocks this guy or that guy etc. They always end up as a touch down on the board.

When you get on the field and add the human element, then it gets a little crazy and MOST of those chalk board plays are failures.

Most are failures, but then again look at the stakes in football and look at the stakes in global dominance. And there aren’t many complexities of a small group trying to control anything because they don’t have a situation of too many chiefs, not enough Indians. Moreover, they don’t let the left hand know what the right hand is doing, so everything usually works out fine. Now do they have in-fighting and arguing? Sure, any team or family does, but at the end of the day they seek to establish their agenda, not the will of the people.

Now consider that play only ten thousand times more complicated and times that by the billions of players while giving second hand information to the coach who tells the puppets in the locker room the extravagant play on the chalk board that requires miles of board and mega tons of chalk.

I just explained this, and it isn’t as hard as you make it sound.

Then take all that and throw it out there with the human element not even believing a play even exists much less the one the powers that be have tried to get us to play using subliminal divide and conquer methods of keeping us pre-oocupied while they try to sneak one by us.

The human element is the reason why they win. They fully understand Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, intrinsic and extrinsic values and know how to manipulate the average Joe to obtain substantial results.

Seems a pretty asnine and particularly inefficient means of control, wouldn't you say?

Absolutely not because it’s been the same game since the dawn of man. The rich are in power. The wealth is controlled by the few. BIG I’s and little u’s. What is asinine is remaining oblivious to the truth when it’s slapping you in the face.

I mean I like pretty much all the stuff you post but lately the PTB stuff is a little hard to believe and has an achilles heel that makes it such a false dichotomy in the grand scheme of things I just can't see how they could even pull such a thing off with out help, much less without it.

Please clarify this statement, as I do not fully understand what you’re trying to convey here.

[edit on 14-9-2009 by EMPIRE]

Originally posted by Stylez
Ron Paul has more sense in his pinky then a thousand Barack insane Obama's. For one thing, Ron Paul wouldn't be shoving 3500 page bills down everyone’s throats telling them they have 15 minutes to read

15 minutes? How about months? And by the way, isnt this why we had town halls? Oh wait, instead of asking the president or raising your concerns, we hear "socialism" all day long. Whether you think this bill came from stalin himself, the mere fact your going on about the length of the bill while refusing to have a look into it at all in anycase says alot.This isnt about the length of the bill really, this is about throwing anything at the bill itself. I'd swear if this was shorter you'd be telling me how "it was not planned properly given how short the bill was".

He would have wanted an audit of the fed

How does this solve the financial crises? People are loosing jobs, companies are collapsing, the dollar is loosing value, and you are tell me here that by Ron Paul changing the tax system and leaving hell to take over everything will be dandy? Ofcourse he would have ended the Fed. that doesnt solve the financial crises at present neither does it change anything.

This is seriously a joke. You folks really think eliminating one government division, the Fed, is going to take away all your woes economically? Seriously? What his going to end taxes and just hide it in goods and services? Really Im going to have some good long drives across the Canadian border to get that plasma TV of mine, me and millions of americans just to avoid the tax increase on goods and services. Real stimulus to american businesses.

This isnt a solution, this plan of Ron Pauls. This is just getting rid of agency because people dont like paying taxes. It doesnt solve the nations issues at hand.

to get to the bottom of who at the top was to blame and he would have most likely begun talks about getting rid of them.

And what proof do you have here? You folks accuse other people of "just talking" what is Ron Paul doing exactly? Isnt this based on your assumption? Whats he going to get to the bottom of? Isnt he at the top?

Ron Paul in a speech before congress in 2005 predicted

Ron Paul talks and "predicts" alot of things. Im suppose to be convinced by this man and nobody else and I should be taking your word for it? Sounds to me like your not explaining the solutions this man has to offer to the crises at hand, something you readily accuse this current president of. It also sounds to me like your marketing this man based on his word, something you folks accuse other voters of.

As usual you folks have only proven what I stated. Ron Paul's solution is to be a do-nothing president who's only goal is to "end the FED" to supposedly sort out our debt issues... oh wait no he doesnt want the people paying the nations debt off so ofcourse we should walk away from it, as if other nations are doing the same to ours, as if China and Japans going to keep shut? His solution to ending the FED is supposedly the solution to the immediate financial crises? Hows he going to create jobs by ending the Fed within a matter of months?

This man doesnt have any plans. All he intends to do is remove some elected politicians, end the Federal reserve and all income taxes, and from there the nation will be like brand spanking new. Ron Pauls solution is applying 18th century government plans to 21st century issues. Some problem solver.

[edit on 14-9-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by Redpillblues
I for one have sat for the past 13 years of my adult life,

And ironically, it took a liberal biracial man to get you up and fight to power! Yes. Yes you did sit by for 13years of your adult life while the white southern man sat in office. Now your up! Now your awake! The Kenyan socialist is in power. Godbless.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

15 minutes? How about months? And by the way, isnt this why we had town halls? Oh wait, instead of asking the president or raising your concerns, we hear "socialism" all day long. Whether you think this bill came from stalin himself, .

Yeah SG 15 mins they have several threads about it, I am sure you have seen them, how Obama was always complaining about bush shocing bills through faster than anyone had time to read them. Then he does it even more .

the mere fact your going on about the length of the bill while refusing to have a look into it at all in anycase says alot

Well I don't know SG, what DOES it say a lot about me?

I know what it says about you being so presumptuous to make such comments without even bothering to ask me if I had read it or not.

This isnt about the length of the bill really, this is about throwing anything at the bill itself. I'd swear if this was shorter you'd be telling me how "it was not planned properly given how short the bill was".

I noticed that too about you , if you can't second guess what your opposing interlocutors are about, how they think and can't add a label to them as fingers, birthers, right wing nutjobs etc, I don't know what you'd do to give yourself the illusion you actually think you're right all the time.

How does this solve the financial crises? People are loosing jobs, companies are collapsing, the dollar is loosing value, and you are tell me here that by Ron Paul changing the tax system and leaving hell to take over everything will be dandy? Ofcourse he would have ended the Fed. that doesnt solve the financial crises at present neither does it change anything.

How the hell do YOU know ? Anyone ever do it? NOPE! just SG making up the facts as he goes.

This is seriously a joke. You folks really think eliminating one government division, the Fed, is going to take away all your woes economically? Seriously?

No it isn't it is pathetic is what it is.

If you think putting words in peoples mouth, then answering them as if they actually said eliminating one government division would take away all our problems, with your usual presumptuous criticism, if you think that is a joke, I don't. I just think it's rude a very inexperienced debate tactic used by many here I have noticed but not as much as I see you do it to people.

What his going to end taxes and just hide it in goods and services? Really Im going to have some good long drives across the Canadian border to get that plasma TV of mine, me and millions of americans just to avoid the tax increase on goods and services. Real stimulus to american businesses.

This isnt a solution, this plan of Ron Pauls. This is just getting rid of agency because people dont like paying taxes. It doesnt solve the nations issues at hand.

hehhe you go on SG have this conversation with yourself, I am obviously not given any serious attention for what I really say so neither will you be.

Way to kill a thread .

And what proof do you have here? You folks accuse other people of "just talking" what is Ron Paul doing exactly? Isnt this based on your assumption? Whats he going to get to the bottom of? Isnt he at the top?.

what proof do I have? Umm gee SG wasn't Barack Obama SECOND in line at the fannie mae freddie mac trough for campaign funds? Wasn't Obama saying NO to Mcains Bill in 2005 to put more controls on the GSE's because he was afraid this would happen? Didn't he say that? Didn't Obama use his lawyers offices and powers to sue banks forcing them to make consessions to people for mortgages they really couldn't afford while he was a community agitator, in Chicago? I seem to remember the News on WGN channel 9 saying that? Am I wrong SG?

Ron Paul talks and "predicts" alot of things. Im suppose to be convinced by this man and nobody else and I should be taking your word for it?

No you aren't "supposed to do anything SG, but you asked me so I'm giving my reasons he obviously knew more to say the kind of things we were doing would end up just like he said so I would suggest yo utake HIS workd for it not mine. It's become quite obvious you have no intention of either listening to me or Ron Paul and you King Barack Obama is your idol who can do no wrong and anyone who says otherwise get told what they really said according to you then ripped up and down for saying the many things they never quite said them by the person who never quite read them.

Sounds to me like your not explaining the solutions this man has to offer to the crises at hand, something you readily accuse this current president of. It also sounds to me like your marketing this man based on his word, something you folks accuse other voters of.

The solution your man has to offer happens to be the one where WE take all the risk and all the losses and seeing how your man claimed Bush was such a maniac witrh spending during the canpaign, then gets in there only to make Bush look like he is so tight with spending he squeeks when he walks, seems to evade your perception. I have been on this planet longer than you SG and have seen our government throw money at things claiming they were going to make sure it was the right way this time.

They ALL say, they are the solution. To my knowledge I have never seen low income people come out of poverty because o a democrat being in office saying he was going to make it fair for everyone.

As usual you folks have only proven what I stated. Ron Paul's solution is to be a do-nothing president who's only goal is to "end the FED" to supposedly sort out our debt issues... oh wait no he doesnt want the people paying the nations debt off so ofcourse we should walk away from it, as if other nations are doing the same to ours, as if China and Japans going to keep shut? His solution to ending the FED is supposedly the solution to the immediate financial crises? Hows he going to create jobs by ending the Fed within a matter of months?

Can I ask why you do that? You ask for speculation and you get it but when you do you criticize it as fact and as failed policy when most of what you are saying I said i never said and the failure of any of what I said he would do isn't what he would but what I think would be some of it going by what he has already done like legislation to audit the fed and finding out once and for all how much of our economy is even real.

This man doesnt have any plans. All he intends to do is remove some elected politicians, end the Federal reserve and all income taxes, and from there the nation will be like brand spanking new. Ron Pauls solution is applying 18th century government plans to 21st century issues.
Some problem solver.

Well Gee sg, if you KNEW what he is going to do, then why are you asking us? I didn't know Ron Paul ever really got a crack at it to tel you the truth but seeing how he has already failed using them 18th century methods in a 21st century crisis as if you know that is how it would end up, hey DON'T let me get in that one with ya

I hate arguing with mind readers who can see the future and who know ron paul better than Ron Paul knows himself.

What a waste of time this was lol.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by Stylez]

Originally posted by EMPIRE


Please clarify this statement, as I do not fully understand what you’re trying to convey here.

[edit on 14-9-2009 by EMPIRE]

I'd love to but not here, I don't want SG telling you what I really said and how wrong the future turns out when I said it. I mean after all he knows what we all really mean and no one is going to tell him any different and that is obvious. I was gonna clean up the typos in my post but hehe I figure, why bother, anyone gets this far in this thread has to be a masochist

[edit on 15-9-2009 by Stylez]

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
The Kenyan socialist is in power..

Bout time you figured that out

hehe

Originally posted by Stylez
Yeah SG 15 mins

No Stylez, it wasnt 15 minutes. It has been 7 months since the bills introduction. This is about throwing whatever you can get. Instead of addressing the bill, your complaining about petty things around it. The weakest form of argument.

they have several threads about it,

This issue isnt about the length of the bill stylez, so move along.

how Obama was always complaining about bush shocing bills through faster

When did Obama say that?

Well I don't know

No, you dont know. You dont care to know about the bill. All you care about is "hate". Its rather sad.

so presumptuous

Whats presumptuous about it? Your accusing the bill without reading it. Nevermind the "length", merely by you labelling it without reading it yourself says plenty to me.

I noticed that too about you , if you can't second guess

I dont have to second guess. If your cheering on a marching parade filled with folks carrying confederate flags, white nationalist signs sponsored by the republican party, lead on by republican speakers who happen to be the very politicians the movement claims to oppose, I dont have to "guess" anything. You know of whom and what you support, and likewise I take it exactly for what it is.

How the hell do YOU know

I know that the policies implemented to save the economy at the beginning of the year is something I fully support. I know that you are obviously derailing a question specifically addressed to you to avoid having your do-nothing leader exposed.

Ron Paul is a joke, and likewise I laugh whenever RP supporters go on about how this financial crises hasnt "turned around" in a matter of months under this administration. As if Ron Paul himself and his "do nothing" attitude to the crises was going to do something.

Im glad that mans well into his 70's and has a lower chance of running next time round'. He can go with the rest of the outdated policies. I'v alway given this to him, atleast he can say what he thinks out loud. Something many "libertarians" and "conservatives" on here prefer not to.

putting words in peoples mouth, then answering them as if they actually said eliminating one government division would take away all our problems, with your usual presumptuous criticism,

How am I putting words in your mouth again? I asked you specifically what was Ron Pauls solution to the crises if he had anything. All you responded to me was:

A) He would have the lobbyist kicked out (which is something Im suppose to take yours and his word for).

B) He would "end the Fed".

That is really all you could come up with. This is your answer when I asked you "what solutions". I didnt put anything in your mouth.

I am obviously not given any serious attention.

Stop derailing and address me directly.

what proof do I have? Umm gee SG wasn't Barack Obama SECOND in line at the fannie mae freddie mac

Why are you changing the subject again? What is Ron Pauls solution?

Wasn't Obama saying NO

Still nothing about Ron Pauls "solution" to the crises early this year. I'll happily answer your McCain bill question but ofcourse the originial argument here was regarding Ron Paul and his solution. Stop Derailing and address my question first.

I'm giving my reasons

Exactly. Your giving your personal reasons while accusing others of giving theirs.

Now, your most welcome to run away from me like some others on this forum or you can address me again and actually answer next time round'.


[edit on 15-9-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but this is nothing new.

The same forces were at work during Clinton's years. Given, there is a nastier underlying feature and it ramped up very very quickly. And the same forces are behind the current actions:

Which is why it's worth remembering just how virulent the opposition to Clinton's presidency was. Republicans began plotting to impeach Clinton long before anyone had ever heard the name "Lewinsky," and many on the right simply refused to accept that he legitimately occupied the office he held. Then-House Majority Leader Dick Armey, when talking to Democrats, used to refer to Clinton as "your president."

dinky

Wonder what Dick Armey's up to these days...

[edit on 15-9-2009 by melatonin]

reply to post by melatonin


Just for the record long before Monica was…

Jennifer Flowers, and others some accusing the former Arkansas Governor of Date Rape, but what had most Republicans going was The White Water Land Deal and how the Rose Law Firm and the Clintons were involved.

Travel-Gate also was a huge blunder for the Clintons, the firing of the long employed non-partisan White House Travel Office staff and replacing them with political hires.

The White Water Land Deal involved a very serious Justice Department investigation that sent other principals in the deal to Jail but did not stick on the Teflon Clintons in part because of the power of the White House they then occupied.

What really sent the Republicans all out on the War Path and the appointment by the Justice Department of Special Prosecutor Kenneth Starr who left a very cushy job at Pepperdine University as Dean of their Law School to spend years in Washington digging in to the Clinton trail of patronage, cronyism, fraud, obstruction of justice and drug trafficking…

Was the suicide of Clinton’s first Chief of Staff Mack McLarty in Rock Creek Park. In conspiracy driven Washington D.C. having your own Chief of Staff commit suicide in a Public Park while staring out at the Reflecting Pool and the Lincoln Memorial suggested a murder in a clandestine meeting gone bad.

Hilary’s own attempt to do a Health Care Bill as First Lady likewise made many people feel it was an abuse of power to in essence use the First Lady’s Office to make actual policy. Many people likened it to say the Chairman of General Motors bringing in his wife to design say a car, with no engineering or design credentials, or prior experience at designing one.

Of course when her two year long, massively expensive effort to legislate a healthcare overhaul died an ugly death on the house and senate floor Hillary went back to knitting the rest of her term, but the intrusion of the First Lady into a business in government capacity really upset a lot of people and rankled a lot of feathers.

Clinton like Obama was largely marketed off of his looks, and hipness and coolness, unlike Obama, Clinton can at least play a musical instrument and had a little something going for him besides the way he walked and talked to justify the personal celebrity appeal. It’s true he wasn’t a great saxophone player but the guy could at least put on a show with credible musicians forced to play with him at Secret Service gunpoint, but at least credible musicians and a show.

It’s not that democrats are any more corrupt than Republicans it’s just that they always seem to leave a much sloppier trail and smoking guns laying around.

Amateurs!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


And it was BS pushed by right-wing political 'operatives'.



And the same is happening now. The smear BS, the obstructionism, the attempts to delegitimise a democratically elected president. Militias are active, death-threats to the president are up, the loons and thugs have woken.

Extreme right-wing populism can only have a bad outcome - we have enough examples. The 'moderates' from the GOP have slowly been ejected, the party is now in the grip of paranoid delusional madness.

Great to watch in a wyrd way. All they need is a charismatic leader and it's on - wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by melatonin]

reply to post by melatonin


Actually what you and most people don't get, is the number one job of a New Administration and President is to take all eyes off of the old President and Administration, this is a time honored tradition in Washington D.C., and is what allows the massive corruption in Washington and the misuse of the Dictatorial office of the Corporate Government's President to go uncovered.

In part how they manage this is through misdirection, by focusing suspicions and the debate on the current President who can 'legally' put up walls to protect himself like no other person in the world can because the office itself is considered so vital to how the nation is run.

You spend millions of dollars investigating the sitting President, the sitting President spends millions of dollars hampering the investigation and dragging it out.

This process is more vital than you think because as you uncover the sitting President's crimes, presumably to prosecute them, they are in fact by design doing the opposite and white washing them, rearanging the trail finding suitable scapegoats and sweeping things under the carpet so that when he leaves office there is little for him to worry about after loosing many of the legal protections he was afforded while in office.

Like most of what Washington does it's to provide you an illusion. In Clintons case because of his novice nature (lets face it Hot Springs has long been all mobbed up but no Chicago) there was so much stuff to be cleaned that took so long and cost so much money the tax payer had to be given something for the massive effort so they impeaced him on the meaningless Monica charge and life went right on.

You would have to look down a level or two and be able to think out of the partisan box, and avoid the rancor of the staged dog and pony show to realize this, but this is in fact how they do it and why they do it.

Clinton was in fact guilty of all those things, but by the time all the investigators who really just function as cleaners, finish cleaning up the trail, he can safely leave office, the new President can safely come in to office, and the reputation of the Office is still in tact domestically and internationally.

That's the real story, but by all means cling to yours, since it's working out so well, with the nation at peace always, never having to fight any costly wars in lives and dollars, our economy stronger than any other in the world while every citizen enjoys an unprecedented and unparalleled level of wealth and quality of life, and unemployment and poverty is virtually non existent.

You are so right, it's all much a do about nothing!

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
You may not like Obama for all sorts of reasons but he was democratically elected as president on November 4th 2008.

Democratically elected? Wow. If you believe that, then I truly feel sorry for you. Really, I do. This country has not been a Democracy for a VERY long time.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Clinton was in fact guilty of all those things

Yeah, of course. In essence, they could make any old random smear and you'd buy it even when those producing them accept they are total BS.

No point discussing further.

reply to post by melatonin


You obviously haven't read the thread or any number of my previous posts to it.

You obviously haven't read the two posts I made you have responded to because you will see that it's not about partisan politics it's about how people are tricked in to

Us and them camps, of the left and right.

No there is no point in discussing it when ultimately your argument boils down to not the truth of anything, but whether you are with 'us' or against 'us'.

Like most people stuck in this circular and self defeating trap it doesn't even matter to you that the person you are lumping in to the 'them' camp, is against the 'them' camp as well as the 'us' camp, as thinking within the neatly arranged box and the confining arguments that the sides in the box provide you to argue, keeps you from ever looking outside of the box, which just functions as a prison to your own closed mind.

You should read the thread before posting to it, but of course you are free just to pretend other's are how you imagine them to be for the purpose of winning an argument in your mind.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
You obviously haven't read the thread or any number of my previous posts to it.

Well, there's 19 pages and I have a life. I think I mentioned I never read back. If you have a pertinent post, link to it.

But the sort of thinking your showing is not worth my time.

Us and them camps, of the left and right.

It's actually more a case of extreme right and a little bit right for the US. You'd be better off with us vs. them vs. them vs. them. But you're stuck in a binary system which doesn't help.

No there is no point in discussing it when ultimately your argument boils down to not the truth of anything, but whether you are with 'us' or against 'us'.

So when people self-identify as republicans and democrats, left and right, liberals and conservatives, it's not truth. Does the same apply to when people self-identify as Fins and Skins? Are they not really sitting in the crowd willing on 'their' team with a pigskin?

I hear what you're saying but it's totally naive.

People have beliefs, beliefs inform action. We are all one species, blah blah. I agree. The less division the better, but I'm not going to ignore reality to foster fantasy. Society works by different people - individuals with different beliefs and motivations - interacting. Some of them want to smoke dope, some of them want to put dope-smokers in the slammer, others want to have abortions if they want, others want to stop such people, others want to see people get better healthcare, better education, roads, pay less taxes, people fly to mars, a theocracy, a meritocracy. Others don't.

That's the reality. And somehow we need to work through all these differences to make some form of coherent workable society. We found democracy can sort of fulfill that purpose in a roundabout way.

You should read the thread before posting to it, but of course you are free just to pretend other's are how you imagine them to be for the purpose of winning an argument in your mind.

Cool, whatever. Again, if you're saying that whatever people like Brock say is true, even when they actually admit it was just a smear - that line of thinking is not worth my time.

If they said that Clinton was a two-headed alien from the planet Zarg, and later accepted it was BS - you'd still be thinking he's a two-headed alien.

ABE: so I quickly skimmed through your posts and I find you actually do have beliefs that might be some form of political ideology. I was shocked, shocked I tell you. I'm sure if Andrew Jackson was running for office you'd probably vote for him, you'd suddenly become an us vs. themer.

Sorry that your ideology is not represented. Hence why the US needs to get out the crappy binary system. Apart from a time-machine, not sure what other solution there is for you.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by melatonin]