Youtube Censoring Sheen's Video to Obama

Originally posted by twitchy
reply to post by harpsounds

 

If the hypothesis is that youtube is censoring truth videos, or at least manipulating the numbers of truth related videos, then I'm not sure that a regular old run of the mill video is going to be much of a control group to cpmpare it to. I don't disagree with you, I just think we need to be careful in forming a basis for comparison.

Well, my idea is just to see, if these anomalies turn up on other videos, then we should not consider the 'ratings manipulation' as strong proof of suppression.

Really, I don't see it as likely that YouTube is deliberately meddling with these videos, but I would like to run tests where possible in case I'm wrong, if you have a better test, then maybe you could try that out see what you find?

EDIT to add, I think you are right about this particular video though, I just picked it as it was on the front page, but I just realised it's quite old, and hasn't got many comments lately. A better comparison would be some video that is currently going viral I guess.

I'm going to try this video too, www.youtube.com..., it's on the front page, quite new, and still getting lots of comments in the last few hours.

EDIT 2: The first video I linked to, I was just able to rate it again!

EDIT 3: I was able to re-rate the second video too, that one only took a few minutes it looks like!

EDIT 4: I just rated them both again, for the third time. I'm pretty convinced now that the ratings are not a good test if something is being manipulated...


[edit on 13/9/2009 by harpsounds]

Originally posted by harpsounds

Originally posted by twitchy
reply to post by harpsounds

 

If the hypothesis is that youtube is censoring truth videos, or at least manipulating the numbers of truth related videos, then I'm not sure that a regular old run of the mill video is going to be much of a control group to cpmpare it to. I don't disagree with you, I just think we need to be careful in forming a basis for comparison.

Well, my idea is just to see, if these anomalies turn up on other videos, then we should not consider the 'ratings manipulation' as strong proof of suppression.

Really, I don't see it as likely that YouTube is deliberately meddling with these videos, but I would like to run tests where possible in case I'm wrong, if you have a better test, then maybe you could try that out see what you find?

EDIT to add, I think you are right about this particular video though, I just picked it as it was on the front page, but I just realised it's quite old, and hasn't got many comments lately. A better comparison would be some video that is currently going viral I guess.

I'm going to try this video too, www.youtube.com..., it's on the front page, quite new, and still getting lots of comments in the last few hours.

EDIT 2: The first video I linked to, I was just able to rate it again!

EDIT 3: I was able to re-rate the second video too, that one only took a few minutes it looks like!

EDIT 4: I just rated them both again, for the third time. I'm pretty convinced now that the ratings are not a good test if something is being manipulated...


[edit on 13/9/2009 by harpsounds]

Hmmmm, Your correct.

I was testing the theory myself with a funny Video Called, " The Censored Count." Its a video with over 3 million views, and I thought the Pun would work well considering.

And yes, I was able to rate twice.

Youtube appears to be broken, I suppose.

I believe another member stated that this occurs so they can Censor questionable videos (IE They mess with all videos, so The important ones can be messed with and not considered Fraud). That theory is hard to test, as well it's almost impossible to test.

So Who knows,

So, the last manipulation is comments count.

The rate of comments coming in vs. The number reported, shows that 10000s of comments were deleted.

What's your theory on that?

Yeah, thankfully the Video went Viral. It also woke up a few more people I know, who were on the fence.


For Manipulation problems, there's the problems with the exposure of the video on Youtube by Youtube (ie missing and deleted from the front page several times). At times it was First on a List of Honors, but when you checked said page, the video wasn't there.

And

The honors that were deleted yesterday (just to come back again, due to the popularity of the video.

For All those wondering, here's the current honors,


#1 - Most Discussed (This Week)
#1 - Most Discussed (This Week) - News & Politics
#21 - Most Discussed (This Month)
#3 - Most Discussed (This Month) - News & Politics
#12 - Most Responded (Today)
#2 - Most Responded (Today) - News & Politics
#8 - Most Responded (This Week)
#1 - Most Responded (This Week) - News & Politics
#29 - Most Responded (This Month)
#4 - Most Responded (This Month) - News & Politics
#13 - Most Responded (All Time) - News & Politics
#13 - Most Viewed (This Week) - Australia
#16 - Most Viewed (This Week) - Canada
#41 - Most Viewed (This Week) - United Kingdom
#28 - Most Viewed (This Week) - Ireland
#23 - Most Viewed (This Week) - New Zealand
#29 - Most Viewed (This Week)
#48 - Most Viewed (This Week) - Netherlands
#83 - Most Viewed (This Week) - Czech Republic
#77 - Most Viewed (This Week) - Sweden
#17 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - Germany
#1 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - Australia
#1 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - Canada
#1 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - United Kingdom
#1 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - Ireland
#13 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - India
#1 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - New Zealand
#18 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - Israel
#3 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics
#28 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - Spain
#89 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - Mexico
#43 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - France
#46 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - South Korea
#5 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - Netherlands
#8 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - Poland
#35 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - Brazil
#32 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - Russia
#84 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - Hong Kong
#5 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - Czech Republic
#1 - Most Viewed (This Week) - News & Politics - Sweden
#17 - Most Viewed (This Month) - News & Politics
#15 - Top Favorited (This Week)
#1 - Top Favorited (This Week) - News & Politics
#3 - Top Favorited (This Month) - News & Politics
#77 - Top Rated (This Week)
#2 - Top Rated (This Week) - News & Politics
#5 - Top Rated (This Month) - News & Politics

Crazy how this video is the 13th most discussed of all time in News & Politics, but only has 450 k views...

Regardless, Youtube may be broken, or glitch ridden, but I'm glad to see the video get out there.

The jury is still out for me, in concern to censorship.




[edit on 14-9-2009 by squidboy]

You guys are crazy. Youtube implemented a system to help prevent "FALSE VIEWS" in return this is better for the video, it shows actual views and not fake views.

It stops at about 300 for a lot of videos, not just Truth videos. I have a youtube channel and I sometimes get this and it's not on a video that needs to be silenced so the masses don't get into an uproar.

Come on now. No Conspiracy here, just a very popular video. It's obviously being seen if there is over 2000+ comments already.

reply to post by squidboy


Quite frankly you don't understand computers or networking, and are making a class 1 ass out of yourself trying to find conspiracy where there is none.

Originally posted by jprophet420
reply to post by squidboy

 

Quite frankly you don't understand computers or networking, and are making a class 1 ass out of yourself trying to find conspiracy where there is none.

And you do? Please explain your Proof, like the others (who have shown problems with the view counts and rating system). I respect people more, when they answer with evidence, then name callling.

Again, why do people take the time to call people names? Don't you see, it's ironic, but your comment just really goes backwards, and you look like the ass.

Again, half of the people who commented on this thread, only commented on the first post, which I can not Update.

They never respond to other information that was provided. Most Importantly the first hand User Comments stating that censorship was occurring.

I guess they are First Rate Asses as well...

Honestly, I am not going even waste my time with posts like these, when the responses are just very hateful and childish...

Furthermore, Thank you for the critics who pointed out that other videos (non truth) have been effected by the view count error, and Ratings error (it appears youtube is just broken). That clears up the view and ratings numbers.

Still doesn't explain other evidence I posted concerning; Comment and Honors Deletion.

Anyone with a a response other then

A) Your stupid, you don't know computers, Google would never Censor

or

B) Lots of videos with 303 views... Happens all the Time (Again this has been established). If you took the time to read and respond to the other points, other then page one.

Please let me know a valid reason, for comment deletion and Honors Deletion (not to mention deletion from 1st page Top Videos several times.)

In my approximation (doing simple math, and watching the comments stream in), there's been over 50,000 comments erased in 4 days. Does this impact other videos?

Honors deletion and Front Page Absence-

At one point, the video had a set number of honors. 3 Hours later, the Honors dropped by 2/3 (including every foreign country honor). The honors then slowly climbed back. Does this happen to other videos?

Why when a Video was number 1 on said honor. It wasn't the First Video on said Topic Page.

Regardless, in my opinion, Youtube may be broken and it is affected lots of videos, other then this video. With the Partnership Program, this should be further looked into, since People may be getting less, then their should be, if their video turns Viral.

Which may not be Censorship, but it is most certainly Fraud.

[edit on 14-9-2009 by squidboy]

Originally posted by harpsounds

Originally posted by twitchy
reply to post by harpsounds

 

If the hypothesis is that youtube is censoring truth videos, or at least manipulating the numbers of truth related videos, then I'm not sure that a regular old run of the mill video is going to be much of a control group to cpmpare it to. I don't disagree with you, I just think we need to be careful in forming a basis for comparison.

Well, my idea is just to see, if these anomalies turn up on other videos, then we should not consider the 'ratings manipulation' as strong proof of suppression.

Really, I don't see it as likely that YouTube is deliberately meddling with these videos, but I would like to run tests where possible in case I'm wrong, if you have a better test, then maybe you could try that out see what you find?

EDIT to add, I think you are right about this particular video though, I just picked it as it was on the front page, but I just realised it's quite old, and hasn't got many comments lately. A better comparison would be some video that is currently going viral I guess.

I'm going to try this video too, www.youtube.com..., it's on the front page, quite new, and still getting lots of comments in the last few hours.

EDIT 2: The first video I linked to, I was just able to rate it again!

EDIT 3: I was able to re-rate the second video too, that one only took a few minutes it looks like!

EDIT 4: I just rated them both again, for the third time. I'm pretty convinced now that the ratings are not a good test if something is being manipulated...


[edit on 13/9/2009 by harpsounds]

Good Evidence Harpsounds.

I've also tried it on other videos, and yes this is correct.

Interesting Choice for a Viral Video... As the video has almost 1.4 million views, and appears to not have suffered from the View count problem encountered in the Sheen Video (which is still stuck at 550k, although having more ratings, and comments).

So yes, the view count and ratings are problems that effect alot of videos, not just truth videos, or sheen's video.

However, I still believe there to be manipulation.

reply to post by squidboy


Because its been explained eloquently more than once at this point. It burns me up to see "truther threads" like this. Its how "we" get a bad name. "We" look like clownshoes to educated people because of things like this.

Again, why do people take the time to call people names? Don't you see, it's ironic, but your comment just really goes backwards, and you look like the ass.

I suppose I would If it was my first post in the thread, and I hadn't offered an alternative, or read the perfectly rational and as of yet "undebunked" comments countering the accusations. But since I did all that I am confident I don't look like an ass to anyone serious about 911 research.

[edit on 14-9-2009 by jprophet420]

Originally posted by jprophet420
reply to post by squidboy

 

Because its been explained eloquently more than once at this point. It burns me up to see "truther threads" like this. Its how "we" get a bad name. "We" look like clownshoes to educated people because of things like this.

Again, why do people take the time to call people names? Don't you see, it's ironic, but your comment just really goes backwards, and you look like the ass.

I suppose I would If it was my first post in the thread, and I hadn't offered an alternative, or read the perfectly rational and as of yet "undebunked" comments countering the accusations. But since I did all that I am confident I don't look like an ass to anyone serious about 911 research.

[edit on 14-9-2009 by jprophet420]

I agree. We are more and more looking like clowns rather then serious researchers. The days of real research are getting bogged down in all these wild goose chases.

Personally, I am at the point in calling quits because I can't see how the Truth movement will advance with so much being hurled at it and the lack of moving forward with the things that have to be done.

Well, for me as a slightly more skeptical person, I consider the view count/ratings manipulation to be most likely not manipulated, or at least inconclusive as these problems are happening elsewhere. Of course, YouTube may be manipulating them much more subtly, in which case none of us would really be able to detect it. I'm always a little suspect of people calling censorship about a video that was on the front page of YouTube for about two days.

The one area I haven't seen investigated well, and I know there is manipulation, is the "most viewed this week" and similar pages. The Charlie Sheen video was definitely bumped off of those pages. That is a potential investigation area.

For those who think I'm just a pure debunker here trying to ruin your theories, please don't see it that way. I really do want the best evidence to come out, so we can try and make the best theories from it. Something I see a lot on YouTube videos, is people posting about the view counts, then other people call them paranoid, and tell them it's not a conspiracy. If the mainstream see "truthseekers" as paranoid nuts, then nothing will ever progress, and people might disregard something useful you have found as "boy who cried wolf" even when you have good evidence/a good theory. I just think that where possibly theories should be tested, and evidence honed, so that the best appearance can be presented to those who may not normally take the time to look at these topics.

I may be a skeptic, but I'm here, on your sites, trying to examine the evidence, trying to be as open minded as possible. You need to win over much worse people than me... The mainstream who normally laugh all this stuff off without even reading the claims properly.

Youtube and Google video both have been called out for changing page view counts for certain videos that are too controversial.

I have personally seen it happen on a lot of HAARP videos. Glad people are finally recognizing it now.

edit: By this I mean I see the views reduced by tens of thousands of viewers. I'm sure it happens to other videos too, but if videos get ranked based on views and the number of times it is favorited and these numbers are being manipulated then that is something that people should be concerned with I guess. It isn't that huge of a deal but it happens.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by Albastion]

By this I mean I see the views reduced by tens of thousands of viewers.

please illustrate this phenomenon so that I may observe it and see for myself. 16 pages in you would think somebody would have done so by now. As of sunday night when I checked the video it was back to normal and hadn't suffered anything other non political videos had.

Originally posted by jprophet420

By this I mean I see the views reduced by tens of thousands of viewers.

please illustrate this phenomenon so that I may observe it and see for myself. 16 pages in you would think somebody would have done so by now. As of sunday night when I checked the video it was back to normal and hadn't suffered anything other non political videos had.

Back to Normal? Have you visited the page lately?

Comments are still coming in volume, and a quick rate of 10 or so a Minute.

And yet, only 24k comments...

I'm also sick of the argument, if the view count is is delayed, it will catch up eventually. Well, it's Tuesday, and guess what. Not the Case. When's it going to catch up? This Video is a 2 Million View Video+.

Anyone who thinks a Video that has 500k Views would have 10k in ratings and 24k in comments is not really considering normal Youtube behavior. I guess that's based on presumptions, but honestly it's obvious when you take A hand full of Successful Viral Videos, and do the math.

Go try it. Get 5 videos with Over 1 Million Views, Check the ratings and Check the Comment counts. The ratio of Users who view a Video and rate, is usually Constant. Meaning, only a percentage of Views who View will comment, and rate. If you take enough videos and do the math, you will get a percentage number. A mean of users who view, then rate.

I have a feeling that the number for this video would be higher then the mean.

Then numbers for this video are extremely out of wack. I don't understand why it's hard to see Censorship in the form of Manipulation. The only news outlet I saw cover this topic was Russian Today. If anyone can find another 500k view video with 20k comments and 10k ratings, I'll shut up...

Oh, and more honors have been deleted again. Including every Foreign Honor....


#1 - Most Discussed (This Week)
#1 - Most Discussed (This Week) - News & Politics
#21 - Most Discussed (This Month)
#3 - Most Discussed (This Month) - News & Politics
#24 - Most Responded (Today)
#4 - Most Responded (Today) - News & Politics
#7 - Most Responded (This Week)
#1 - Most Responded (This Week) - News & Politics
#29 - Most Responded (This Month)
#4 - Most Responded (This Month) - News & Politics
#13 - Most Responded (All Time) - News & Politics
#17 - Most Viewed (This Month) - News & Politics
#15 - Top Favorited (This Week)
#1 - Top Favorited (This Week) - News & Politics
#3 - Top Favorited (This Month) - News & Politics
#78 - Top Rated (This Week)
#1 - Top Rated (This Week) - News & Politics
#5 - Top Rated (This Month) - News & Politics

But I guess that means nothing....

If someone really wants me to point out why the Honor thing is out of wack as well, I can.

How hard is it to read in between the lines.

Still surprised that I had to rate again (against Youtube's Policy) for the 20th time. And this time it took 5 times/ with refreshing to get the rating to stick.

Regardless of Evidence, people will always argue. Which may be a good thing, as discussion is key.

[edit on 15-9-2009 by squidboy]

Originally posted by harpsounds

I may be a skeptic, but I'm here, on your sites, trying to examine the evidence, trying to be as open minded as possible. You need to win over much worse people than me... The mainstream who normally laugh all this stuff off without even reading the claims properly.

Actually Harp, your skepticism for this thread helped me figure out al ot of problems that have occurred with You tube since Google took over, that I was not aware were occurring... (ie the rating problem occurring with other videos). So thank you. Honestly, out of this whole thread, I think your the only skeptic who had evidence. Bravo to that. It speaks volumes.

The juries still out for Comment count vs Comment Frequency (ie 10-20 a Minute for 5 days straight) and the honors deletion, but at least I know the Ratings problems is a Youtube flaw now...

reply to post by squidboy


I will respond and say I posted without reading past first page because threads like this are full of ignorant people who know nothing about Youtube.

Any video owner can remove comments if they desire CHECK

Any video owner can choose to disable and enable ratings on and off as they see fit.

Your ignorance makes me sick

Originally posted by Wormwood Squirm
reply to post by squidboy

 

I will respond and say I posted without reading past first page because threads like this are full of ignorant people who know nothing about Youtube.

Any video owner can remove comments if they desire CHECK

Any video owner can choose to disable and enable ratings on and off as they see fit.

Your ignorance makes me sick

Hmmm, just proved my point.

Next.

Originally posted by squidboy

Originally posted by Wormwood Squirm
reply to post by squidboy

 

I will respond and say I posted without reading past first page because threads like this are full of ignorant people who know nothing about Youtube.

Any video owner can remove comments if they desire CHECK

Any video owner can choose to disable and enable ratings on and off as they see fit.

Your ignorance makes me sick

Hmmm, just proved my point.

Next.

Do you make videos for Youtube? Do you even know wth you are talking about? I doubt it. That is why your whole thread is BS

Originally posted by Wormwood Squirm

Originally posted by squidboy

Originally posted by Wormwood Squirm
reply to post by squidboy

 

I will respond and say I posted without reading past first page because threads like this are full of ignorant people who know nothing about Youtube.

Any video owner can remove comments if they desire CHECK

Any video owner can choose to disable and enable ratings on and off as they see fit.

Your ignorance makes me sick

Hmmm, just proved my point.

Next.

Do you make videos for Youtube? Do you even know wth you are talking about? I doubt it. That is why your whole thread is BS

I've made a few YouTube videos.

One has 127k views, Granted it's comedy (but I edited it, added music (actually produced the music in the credits). It's called, " World's worst Burglar w. 80s Montage Music." I even produced the credit music for the video.

I can link, but again this is off topic.

It's incredible that people don't read past the first page. I even made it easy for non readers. I included pictures throughout this thread. A few clicks would make you realize that A) This Thread is not about Disabling Ratings. And yes, I know Up loaders can delete comments.

This Copy was uploaded by Alex Jones (It's the Alex Jones Channel).

WHY WOULD ALEX JONES and co. delete Comments for their most important Media story of the year. I'm a listener, but I'll be the first to admit that he's a publicity junkie. He would not delete 10,000+ comments. This effects Youtube placement, and viability to the casual viewer. Also, that's a lot of man power. Imagine deleteing 1000 comments. Now 10,000. Now 20,000.

Saying Alex Jones would try to negatively affect the "Most Discussed" honors for this video, is odd. Considering, the Sheen project is a big Vehicle. A very big Vehicle. Odd, may be too iffy a word.

It's really ludicrous.

And really, Ratings were never disabled. There's been problems registering and keeping the Rating (as in You've already rated for this video). This appears to be affecting every youtube video however).

Back to the topic. Honors and Comment Deletion?

Anyone else have a reason?





[edit on 16-9-2009 by squidboy]

Originally posted by Wormwood Squirm
...I posted without reading past first page because threads like this are full of ignorant people who know nothing about Youtube....Your ignorance makes me sick

That's what I love about the ignore function ATS provides us with, it allows us to screen out stuff like this so we can continue to discuss the issue of censorship without having to read through angry garble from people.

As of this posting there are 9,125 ratings. I kind of find that hard to believe, and the current count of 24,304 comments seems ridiculously conservative after reading through them over last couple days, and I've actually seen them being removed. I don't know much about you tube, honestly but a glitch seems more unlikely over several days to me. I avoid infowars for the most part unless I'm really digging for something, is Jones himself commenting on this?

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by Wormwood Squirm
...I posted without reading past first page because threads like this are full of ignorant people who know nothing about Youtube....Your ignorance makes me sick

That's what I love about the ignore function ATS provides us with, it allows us to screen out stuff like this so we can continue to discuss the issue of censorship without having to read through angry garble from people.

As of this posting there are 9,125 ratings. I kind of find that hard to believe, and the current count of 24,304 comments seems ridiculously conservative after reading through them over last couple days, and I've actually seen them being removed. I don't know much about you tube, honestly but a glitch seems more unlikely over several days to me. I avoid infowars for the most part unless I'm really digging for something, is Jones himself commenting on this?

I listened to some of the show today. But no mention. Sheen mentioned the popularity of the video (during their spot on the show). It was a great interview. They focused a majority of the interview on the MSM attack on Sheen and lack of Debate being embarrassing for MSM (refusal to debate Sheen, even with 3 against Sheen). So forth.

Jones' has brought up Youtube / Google Manipulation in the past (I wasn't aware of it, before I first posted, and found several videos/ articles that detail such occurrences). I've tried messaging the up loader on Youtube, but I'm still waiting for the Friend accept...

Here's a link of Google Censoring Charlie Sheen Story back in 2006

www.prisonplanet.com...

"Google is again embroiled in a censorship scandal after being caught blocking information about Charlie Sheen's 9/11 comments, despite the fact that every other major search engine had indexed the pages."

"Google has a history of censoring websites it dislikes within the US. Google Inc. banned and removed a mainstream news website from all its worldwide search engines, seemingly due to the website's reports on China's geopolitical affairs and military technology."

Jump forward 3 years.

Google now owns Youtube.

[edit on 16-9-2009 by squidboy]