Swedish daily publishes second article on 'IDF organ harvesting'

Originally posted by audas
Sorry thats rubbish - I have posted innumerable details of Israeli organ harvesting - they have a long, very long history of it - I even posted the reasons WHY it is an issue in Israel - extends to religious laws.

Please, a few scattered reports of less than a reliable nature :shk:

Further Organs are harvested directly from car crash victims - which CAN receive considerably more trauma than a single bullet to the chest cavity - the organs are harvested sometimes in situ, in the ambulance etc.

Among my many medical talents is than Im actually a Nurse Instructor in organ transplantation in Pediatrics (Liver, liver small bowel, heart, heart lung, kidney (inc. living related donors), small bowel, liver small bowel, multi viceral organ transplant). I have also taken care of and transported both donors and recipents. While my focus is on the post operative care of the children, I have an intimate knowledge of what goes on in the pre operative setting.

As my UK comrades would say your assertion in pure Bollocks. Harvesting organs for transplantation does not occur in an ambulance pure and simple. That is a quite a bit of theatrical baloney simply put forth to shock the causal reader.

The patient actually has to be alive to donate. You cannot donate when you are dead. Hence the patient has to be stabilized then taken to an OR and have the organs harvested. Average time from when the family says yes to the harvesting? 24 - 48 hours. The harvested organs then have to be transported to recipents in thier various hospitals. Why so long? The donor is worked up in terms of typing etc. Evaluation of which organs are avalible. Recipents have to be identified Those patient have to get to the hospital if they are not in it. Teams have to be organized etc.

In terms of trauma, blunt force trauma is not a predictor of inability to donate. Often the organs may be contused but still usasble. The rib cage does a remakable job in protecting the thoracic cavity. Penatrating wounds however, take organs out. You are going to hit either the liver, lung, heart, kidneys or aorta (or a combination thereof) smaller caliber rounds tumble doing alot of damage, jacketed slugs will actually go through but the shock wave the leave also does harm. Assuming they dont bleed out (Each are is highly vascular, its still an uphill climb.

Organs can be matched to data bases within minutes - so not sure what the hell you are banging on about, however since it is so full of falsehoods I suspect you are merely agenda driven - kind of fits.

Yes they can, but its not like you keep all the recipients in one place ready to go along with the teams eh? What im "banging on" about is your seriously ignorant statements on matters you really have know knowledge about. Whats my agenda? Correcting the ignorant.

Why post with such an authoritative, absolute attitude when you don't actually know ?

But I actually do (See above). As I have noted above, I have grieved with the donor families, I have cheered the sick kids that go home, I have lost a bit of myself with every kid that has died on my watch for the want of an organ, but ive gained it back in spades when a little one goes home with his or her new parts (Thats what one 5 year old told me when I picked him up one time) I know how its done, why its done, and where it doen which if far more than I can say for your ignorance my friend.

Your a moderator, shouldn't take you a second to dig up my post which details exactly why you are wrong. Deny ignorance - remember?

Hmmmmm, as MEMBER I have denied ignorance and have tried hard to help you through yours.

My suggestion is that you do a modicum of research in how organ transplant actually works. After that perhaps you will be able to overcome your own ignorance

[edit on 8/25/09 by FredT]

This story does not seem to want to die.

My understanding of the black market for organs is that it is somewhat different to standard medical procedures. Fresh corpses are gutted with the correct matches to desperate patients made through known contacts. Kidneys last fairly long on ice, corneas, bones, marrow, intestine cells, etc. have a very long shelf life. Items like livers and hearts last only a few hours but lists of potential customers can be disclosed by any hospital.

Finally, why conduct an autopsy on a Palestinian that was shot in the head? Coroners are only interested in cause of death and a gaping head wound is an indicative mode of death.

Originally posted by audas
Why post with such an authoritative, absolute attitude...

Perhaps because he's a trauma professional?

I'd suggest you spend less time stressing on who is saying a thing, and more time on what is being said.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord Well, all due respect etc. but I said much the same thing, just without the barbs. My own knowledge of the subject comes from my mum. She started her nursing career in Casualty/ER, moved on to theatre/OR, got promoted to overseeing seriously injured patients from entry to the hospital until handed off to Intensive Care/Therapy, later assumed charge of Recovery, then took charge of ICU & now teaches part time.
I remember the mess she came home in when I was a kid. She wouldn't talk about what had gone on @work much, but since then she's confided in me a bit more.
She was often instructed to "bully" relatives of accident victims into agreeing to organ donation, as time was a factor. She also told me that patients who were dead, ie DOA, were routinely "resuscitated" by O2, transfusion, shock therapy, etc. merely to keep organs alive so that they would be available for transplant.
This was the source of much of her upset: relatives not understanding that the patient was gone, only the machines were keeping the meat alive.
She told me, "What can you do? Some boy, just like you's impaled 'imself on a fence & he's dead! What can I say? But some other boy, that his mum loves the same, he could live... if only I can get her to let go soon enough."
She also told me of several incidents where bodies were refrigerated, in line with the latest thinking on organ viability, despite the fact that such proceedures also can cause seemingly miraculous recovery of life. Furthermore, that I wouldn't believe how badly injured a person could be & still be "resuscitated" for organ transplant.
This was why she forbade me from having a motorbike whilst I lived with her & why I forbade my son the same.
Still, the little twat's got 1 anyway, now he's off to uni (if it doesn't kill him I will etc.!)!

Originally posted by Chevalerous
So do they want the Swedish Goverment to change the Swedish constitution or what?

As taken from G.I.Y.U.S. (the activist 'internet' mouthpiece of the ministry), in one of their alerts:

Click Act Now to send your protest to the Swedish Foreign Minister. Ask the Minister to condemn this fabricated Israel demonizing article.

Leading Swedish daily Aftonbladet claimed in one of its articles that IDF soldiers killed Palestinians in order to trade in their organs.

reply to post by dzonatas


Wow, is this how Israeli supporters organise themselves to control the internet? Shocking. This is really undemocratic and communistic. These people are organising and ambushing people who use the internet. Looks like bullying too.

Originally posted by dzonatas

Originally posted by Chevalerous
So do they want the Swedish Goverment to change the Swedish constitution or what?

As taken from G.I.Y.U.S. (the activist 'internet' mouthpiece of the ministry), in one of their alerts:

Click Act Now to send your protest to the Swedish Foreign Minister. Ask the Minister to condemn this fabricated Israel demonizing article.

Leading Swedish daily Aftonbladet claimed in one of its articles that IDF soldiers killed Palestinians in order to trade in their organs.

Thanks for showing this!

Funky! click here to send protest to Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt!

Well! that's funny because Carl Bildt is an NWO shill and I am tempted to click on that just for this - to stress him out!

But I still don't understand what will come from this protest action demanding condemnation from the Swedish Goverment, since they are forbidden through the constitution to interfere with the free word & free press etc?

Don't get me wrong!

If they demanded an apology from AFTONBLADET I could really agree with this, but they keep insisting on that the apology has to come from the Goverment - well! that is not going to happen unless the scrap the Swedish constitution all together and write a new one where they take away the freedom of the press!

So as I understand it - they want a new Swedish constitution without the freedom of the press written into it?

Or do they only want a public outcry to make focus on this issue in the world press and on the Internet - and then be satisfied with this?

Or what?


[edit on 27-8-2009 by Chevalerous]

The brother, who was 15-years-old at the time, recounted the shooting incident. "A number of (IDF) soldiers ambushed (the Palestinians) and opened fire. The fist shot hit (Bilal) in the chest, the second in the leg. We believe that he was still alive after sustaining the two bullet wounds."

It's strange people dismissed the possibility of this boy's organs being used for transplant when it is quite possible he was alive when the IDF took him away. Sure a shot in the chest might damage the heart and lungs, or it might miss the lungs entirely. And the kidneys, corneas etc would be useful anyway. It's possible that the IDF have a deal with a major hospital in Israel to drop off "accident cases" for this purpose.

As for the length of time it supposedly takes to organise a transplant - nonsense. A friend of mine was on a waiting-list for a heart-lung transplant. Her whole life revolved around being ready at a moment's notice to get to The Alfred, in Melbourne, Australia, where it was done. When the call did come she had 2 hours to get there, and was operated on that evening. The donor had been alive and well at midday.

It's worth noting that Hassidic Jews and most Orthodox Jews will not donate organs. By Jewish law, a righteous man is to be buried with all his bodily parts. Many Orthodox and Hassidic Jews even keep things like nail cuttings and hair - so they can be buried with all their parts.

Originally posted by onoffon
reply to post by dzonatas

 

Wow, is this how Israeli supporters organise themselves to control the internet? Shocking. This is really undemocratic and communistic. These people are organising and ambushing people who use the internet. Looks like bullying too.

There is also Megaphone.

The people using that are known of as Megaphonies.

Israel has developed a whole arsenal of weapons with which to fight freedom of speech all around the world. So, when you see a sudden influx of posters on every threat that Israel might not like, and they all arrive at the same time, parroting the same message and starring each other, don't be surprised.

It is only the flourishing field which attracts the locusts.

Originally posted by reugen
reply to post by Bunken Drum

 

What i meant was that Aftonbladet, which is a a socialist newspaper , will always honour the legacy of Olof Palme and his likes. Its just politics nothing more. Olof was the first swedish politician to stand up for PLO for example, against the US, its that legacy i am talking about. Probably 90% of all swedish journalists with a swedish journalist degree have a leftish view on things i.e they are socialists and why is that, because their teachers also honour the legacy of Olof Palme , haha

Cheers,

[edit on 2009/8/24 by reugen]

Agree! This "STORY" was nothing more than leftish newspaper.

reply to post by FredT


Question.

Why is it, whenever anything bad comes out of (or, to be fair, is said to come out of) an Israeli governmental body, it's always because of "rogues" and is never "official policy"?

If that's true, then the only logical conclusion is that Israel's government and military is just packed with rogues, and there is no official policy.