These Little Ones being born now are...missing something

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by pai mei
[mtyore]y

You say tribal people don't beat their chilldren?

I am telling you that Pacific Islanders beat their children, and so do Maori.

That is why we, here in NZ, have a huge rate of child abuse.

Do they still live as a tribe ?

Native Americans - no stories about child beatings. They themselves say that children were never beaten. Yequana people - from that book, the same.
Just remember, children are not "antisocial" by nature.

The Native Americans of today - of course they beat their children, have alcoholism and everything else. They are not a tribe just poor people. "Civilized"

[edit on 5-8-2009 by pai mei]

reply to post by pai mei


Depends which tribe. In Africa and Southeast Asia kids are disciplined the good ole' fashion way.

reply to post by pai mei


No, my friend, they do not live as a tribe, so they are lost.

It is very sad, but the children pay the price.

Originally posted by dgtempe


My son is coming back today from a 3 dayrest. And i'm outta here.

I try to help my son, but this is just too much for me.

Thanks for listening.

Something is deffinately wrong here.

How can your son afford to go away on a 3 day rest if he has no money to fix the windows in his car? How did he get away if he has no vehicle?

It seems a bit of a luxury for him to be able to do this, and you allowed him to. Why don't you let your son grow up and tend to his responsibilites?

Children learn what they live. You have spoiled your son by letting him run away from his responsibility.

No wonder these children are little brats.

A beating is only good when there is reason involved. Its a big risk to take, because if you weren't too smart get ready to deal with a mark in their hearts that may take years to fully mend. Its frighteningly easy to remember the times when you were hit.

I used to get beat for running away from enemies in a game, lol (claimed that it was cowardice)

I've never had a kid before, so I won't be so arrogant to suggest much. You might be able to climb the highest mountain with your brains if you have enough of it... Maybe beating is just a risk people take if they can't find the right words?

Originally posted by EyesWideShut
Spank em!!! , Yeah I KNOW that you're not supposed to hit kids. I'm not saying beat your children and abuse them , I'm simply saying the kids need a spankin. I'm 29 and I got spanked as a kid , I wasn't abused and my dad used to always say "This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you" right before he spanked me, I always thought... "BULLS***!" Now I have kids and I understand. They are all different , with my son I can use a tone of voice and use "The Look" and he straightens up , The "count to three" works on him as well as timeouts. The only thing my daughter responded to was spankings when she was little , I never spanked her (that was my wifes job) but now just the threat of the spanking works. If I say "Pow , Pow" she know's what the deal is. The kid's in the OP are still young enough to be fixed. Discipline and love is what they need.

Yes, a little pain early in life saves a lot of pain later in life.

And, stop giving the kids meds, for God's sake.

Childern crave consistancy. They dont mind being punished appropriately when they knoe they have screwed up, as long as they feel the punishment is FAIR. Drunks and drug people (even years after quitting) act in a very emotionally unpreditable and extreme manner. One minute they are clasping your to them and declaring undying love -- the next they slap you to the floor and before the ringing in your ears is over you dont have time to wonder what the hell you did wrong cause hes screaming something at you and you can barely process it. This is situation normal in a substance-abuse home, and it builds a great deal of RAGE in kids because the JUSTICE and LOVE is so ARBITRARY. Kids are much more sensitve to JUSTICE that you imagine. Treat them FAIRLY and CONSISTANTLY.

Take this from the son of a doc who used to intraveinously inject "pic-me-ups" of 99.9% pure crystal meth and vitamin B-12 and then "unwind" at night with three or five coctails and a handful of opiates and sedatives.

First thing I would definitely suggest though is rethinking the medication. Yes, I do not know what purposes and what reasons the medication is being taken, but look into the medication farther then what the doctors tell you. Look into the side effects, perhaps one of the side effects is what is getting to them.

Our son is autistic (for example) and though we really don't like the idea of medicating kids, we allowed him to. To be honest, it was the best thing we could do. He became more imaginative, happier, a lot less aggressive (which is one of his biggest points), more apt to playing with other people asides from himself, more active.. etc etc. Not long after it, though, we noticed he seemed to cry alot more for no reason (was not like him to cry at all), and after we looked into it we found that the medicine does give that side effect. We told the doctor, we switched to another brand of the same formula, and our sons crying is gone, and he's still doing great.

My hubby's best friend was dating someone who was manic depressive, and for one reason or another they put her on a certain medication where one of the side effects is 'thoughts of suicide'. So again, even though you say it is to help the 'hate', look into the side effects of the medication once and see if maybe what is suppose to be helping is actually hindering.

As far as the punishment goes, why use only low voices and see what will happen? Obviously it isn't working, so do something else. We spanked our children, sent them to their rooms and/or corners, lost tv and computer privileges, couldn't have sweats, etc.. We didn't just 'use a low stern voice and see what happens'. We did what we knew would work.

First thing I would do if I were the father is to take away all tv privileges (he could sell it so he can try to have a car back) and if he's got a computer set it to needing a password so they can't get on it. Take away anything food wise that is a 'treat'. And then start setting down rules and disciplines. Our son is 8 years old and he still gets punished in more than a 'low stern voice'. He mostly loses computer, tv, and ice cream privileges, and in dire cases he is sent to his room. Usually all we have to do is warn him of what will happen, and he stops doing what was wrong.

We love our kids very much, and in some ways they are spoiled. BUT, when it comes to being bad, we don't hesitate to doing what we need to do to get them to act right. It doesn't mean we don't love them, shoot far from that. My hubbys mom shows no discipline for our kids, and instead treats everything with kisses and hugs (I have never seen her be stern with our kids, never) and yet she wonders why they never listen to her, and demand things from her, and act like she's nothing to them. We tried to tell her she needs to discipline them somehow, but her response is "You shouldn't have to discipline them, they are confused and just need to be talked to." Not only does that not work most of the time, but with our son and his autism he has a hard enough time comprehending with speech and logic that it means nothing to him.

There's more to being a parent that just showing love and providing to the kids with what they want. As my husband says, "Life isn't all butterflies and roses, there's the allergies and the dog poo too."

Originally posted by dgtempe
i SAY bless their little hearts because i love them to death, but it is them who want their father dead and also me.

Then get them the hell out of the house. Turn them over to the state and let the professionals deal with them in a secure environment. I wouldn't keep my child in my house if she threatened to kill or obviously wanted me dead.

It's better for them and it's better for you.

Sorry .. but you asked for opinions... that's what my psychology degree is telling me.

Originally posted by dgtempe
I still say this generation has terrible anger issues from birth.

I strongly disagree with this statement. There is something wrong with these kids - and I do believe you know what it is - but it is not something that can be fixed in the short time you were watching them.

1. Father as full custody
   
2. Mother has no visitation rights
   
3. Severe anger issues
   
4. Father showing emotional problems himself
   
5. Mother has history of drug use.
   

Do you realize how rare it is for a mother to have visitation rights taken away from her? Heck, it is rare enough to have the father be given custody. Something was going on in that marriage that you may or may not be aware of. The children are at the exact age that it would affect them the most.

The only reason why this would come up is if the children were being exposed to a dangerous environment and most likely subjected to physical abuse (in addition to the emotional abuse that is already apparent). When you "BEAT THEIR LITTLE ASSES!", you are only teaching them that it is ok to resolve issues with physical force. You are reinforcing the behavior you are trying to stop.

First, the father should get into a program himself - something like Al-Anon. He needs to start being honest with himself. He was married to an addict. Since you are affected by this as well, you should perhaps look into attending as well. Oh, and you mentioned the kids going to a psychiatrist. When was the last time your son went to a psychologist (at least)? 3 days bed rest? What exactly are you not telling us?

Second, the kids would probably benefit from a domestic violence group with children their own age. I would also try looking into other psychiatrists if the one they are going to is not assisting. If they are having aggressive behavior while on their medication, the medication is wrong.

Originally posted by dgtempe
i turned out just fine

Denile is not just a river in Egypt. Your son has some severe issues. You keep on overlooking this because it would point toward you (the parent) as a possible source. Seriously... both you are your son would benefit from a program.

Basically, you are asking us for advice without giving us all the information. Please tell me what parts I am wrong on and I will ammend my response, but based on the information you have given, I really don't think I am.

Take my advice. Get some help for you, for your son, and it will make helping your grandchildren that much easier.

reply to post by dgtempe


I am sorry. But this sort of 'my grandkids' are evil, 'they are missing something' feeds paranoid minds. Have you ever consider that someone with mental illness might read this and decide their child is 'demonic' and thus trigger something tragic!

If you can't handle it give them to the state.

reply to post by dgtempe


Maybe they hate him and you because you took them away from their mother(in their eyes). Maybe they love their mother very much. However, if she is in fact a drug addict, then she should absolutely not have custody, that is if that's the facts, because a lot of times people lie in court to get custody, not saying you are, but I have to keep an open mind and I have no clue if family services was involved(notorious for lying). Is there visitation? If not you may want to try to have some supervised visitation. And what about treatment for the mother? Refused or what? Are these his biological kids? It doesn't sound like it. This to me sounds like state placement, and if that's the case, the kids are and have the right to be very angry. The state paid homewreckers ruin a lot of lives, and this is a perfect example!
edited to add:
If they are not your son's biological kids and this was state placement, then what you and your son are failing to see here is that they lost their mother, natural daddy is probably no where around in this whole mess, and they are hurt, they are angry, and they feel unloved, these are things that every child would feel in that situation. The only thing I can tell you and your son is to sit them down and ask "why would you break my windshield". And don't let them sy "I don't know" Oh they will try, but make it very plain and clear they are going to sit there and not eat, drink, play, or get a bathroom break until they tell you WHY they did it. You'd be surprised that this does actually work and you might discover what the root of all their problems are.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by ldyserenity]

[edit on 5-8-2009 by ldyserenity]

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Did your mother do those things?

If so, how can you respect her?

reply to post by dgtempe


www.youtube.com...

put that song on and give them a smack, that should teach them a lesson.

reply to post by moonwilson

You can love someone unconditionally, and still put your boot up their butt when they don't obey the rules. When I was growing up, my mother had a graduated set of punishments.
1. Warning
2. sit in the corner(time out)
3. "go out to the willow tree and get me a switch!" And it damned well better not be a twig, or a piece of deadwood that would shatter on impact.
This did not mean that my mother did not love me, but it did mean that I would be disciplined, rather I liked or not.
Guess what? I turned out okay. I don't respond to unpleasant situations by trying to inflict violence on someone, although I won't hesitate if someone is trying to physically harm me, or my wife.
That's what these kids need. Escaliting punishments, to be decided and enforced by the dad, and the grandparents, if they are involved in the direct care of these kids.
The punishments need to be decided on in advance, then explanined(NOT DISCUSSED) with the kids, then implemented, firmly, forcefully, and unremittingly. It won't take them long to get the message.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
reply to post by loam

 

Wow, right down to watching the diet. You covered all the bases.

Excellent post. Anybody would do well to use these values/techniques in raising children. IMO.

Thank you. There is of course no one-size-fits all approach, but I believe these to be the basics.

Consistent effort must be placed on those topics above all others in my opinion. In my view, if there is weakness on any of them, there will be no solution or mitigation to the behavior.

(Off topic: I'm glad you liked that other thread. )

You have been given some amazing advice here that is non violent.

I have read some replies here that involve
locking a child in a closet for hours and punching in the throat..yes SOME children born today are missing something ..LOVE.

you as claimed are in sole care of 2 little children that are in such need of love and compassion, whilst your son whom you admit to beating as a child is unable to care for his own children ..yes beating sure worked there didn't it... BRAVO...

grow up both of you .... if you are in sole care of the children explain how you have time to sit on ATS instead of doing something for or with them.

I feel nothing but sick to my stomach reading some of this...
they dont belong to you or your son..they are people that need guidance and care and LOVE.. i hope to god they do find peace and love in a family that bothers to put them first..and if the story unfolded just as you claimed, a social worker of worth will pick up on this...

the children will change ..but will you?

I'm disgusted at some of the posts i have read in this thread.

Please seek the proper profesional advice, you will find help.

Dont give up your Heart is in the right place,,

But i think you are genralising with the title.

Originally posted by dgtempe

They have no conscience. We cant slap them, swat them, the only thing is both low voice to see how they respond, and when they dont, i yell and yell and still no response.

you cant smack some sense into them or you wont? BIG Difference. I can see that would NOT be an option if they have been physically neglected at some point, but come on, you have to draw the line somewhere. I can atest that any time I was struck I WELL deserved it, and you better believe I never offended in that way again.....

skip to about one minute in on this video

I think it's our society. Look at our popular culture ... it is absolute poison! I sure hope when I have kids it is not so ridiculous.

Kids are just, yeah, kids. They're like us only with less experience. As for your grandkids, gee idk, I bet it does have to do with the mom being an addict. Maybe talk to your son about getting them into something? Buy em guitars or keytars or something maybe. lol