Gates in plea to Israel for 'patience' over Iran

there's no point in bickering about who's worse - Iran or Israel. Everybody is out for themselves and "sides" are swapped around depending on the tactical needs of the time. This time in 50 years Iran will probably be our best buds again. Ces't la vie.

Bottom line here; the US doesn't want a nuclear Iran. Israel doesn't want a nuclear Iran. So there won't be a nuclear Iran. Yes, it's hypocritical in the extreme - but that's how the world turns. Always has I'm afraid.

Unless Iran makes a drastic u-turn, their nuclear sites and key military installations will be reduced to smoking craters before the end of this year.

I hate to say this but in the end, Israel will win. If it comes to total showdown, nukes will be used, the world opinion be damned.

If Israel strikes Iran then Iran strikes back at Israel nuclear reactor, or even hint at aiming missile that way, Israel will take NO CHANCES to see it's holy land turned into Tchernobyl 2. Iran missile-sites/military bases and probably the capital, will be nuked without any hesitation.

But the whole BS ``holy land`` turning into Tchernobyl for thousands of years would be a good advance in the world I think... Jews, Christians and muslims would lose their freaking religious capital, aside from Mecca for muslims...and maybe we would have calm over there? At least for Jerusalem control...nobody could live there...

I know this sound sick... but im sick of those religious wars.

Originally posted by Lazyninja

Why give the regime this opportunity.... they would love Israel to bomb them. It gives them their legitimacy back in the eyes of their own people.

Nobody wants to be bombed, that's ridiculous. Israel already bombed an Iranian nuclear facility like 20 years ago, that's what they want to do again. Let me stress, these guys dont want to be bombed.

There is no reason these people should be kept in the dark ages, having to rely on fossil fuel for all eternity. If you hadn't noticed, we're kinda in a world oil crisis at the moment, that's the only reason there are American boots on foriegn soil at the moment. America really doesn't give a toss about anyone except themselves. If they did, they would have been over in Sudan and Dafur and a whole list of other places that really honestly needs American intervention.

Iran needs nuclear power, and America and Israel are denying Iran that, out of either a) paranoia and hypocrisy, that Iran might be developing nukes. Or b) anti-muslimism. Hey if the Jews get a special hate phrase, why not muslims?

If they're developing nuclear power, so what? we cant dictate what forms of power a country has lmao. We're in an energy crisis, how can we tell ANYONE that they cant have nuclear power?

And with our current thousands of nukes, star wars program, and ground missile shield systems, how can we realistically complain about anyone going nuclear either?

This whole mess with Iran is born out of ignorance, arrogance, hypocrisy and racism.

No, your interpretation is born out of sheer ignorance and stupidity. Look what this regime does to it's own people through the Basij. And you say let them develop the tech that may produce a nuke.

How do we de-nuclearise if illegal regimes are going to start a nuclear-race in the middle east. That would be disastrous. I think Israel have a legitimate argument that Iran not have nukes or the tech to develop nukes, but I don't think bombing them will do anything useful at this moment in time. That may change in 6 months, 1 year or 2 years.... but it's not reached that point yet, and hopefully it won't.

Actually Islam already has it's name for those who hate them, and it's called Islamophobia. But 6 million Muslims didn't get massacred in concentration camps by the Nazi's. Go on and spread your propaganda about gaza if you wish, but the intelligent people here aren't so one-sided in this view.

When I said "they would love Israel to bomb them" I was talking about the regime and in the sick mind of the supreme leader. If he continues to lose the battle and his power over the people becomes more fragile and his position weaker, as time suggests, then YES he would LOVE ISRAEL to BOMB Iranian's, therefore giving him an opportunity win them over. It's pure logic that says this, and you have to understand from Iranian's how fragile the situation really is.

And no the Iranian people who want to be free of the regime and even probably the majority of the regime do not want to be bombed right now. Although in desperate times when oppression is very bad you can bet that some days they will be thinking "please come and bomb the regime", even if for a split second.

When Iran has a responsible govt. then nobody can tell them not to develop nuclear power. And if they're reasonable they will allow UN inspectors inside, and not just Russian's. Yes they will need these inspectors for a short while to help prove they are legitimate and responsible, and then they will hopefully become more prosperous and we can consider them a valuable part of the International community, much as we think of countries in the EU or N.America.

Again this is just common sense, and you cannot just oversimplify a situation and accuse those of hypocrisy. By your simple standards we should not allow police to use guns because they arrest criminals for possession or use of weapons. Think about it! Responsibility and legitimacy are important factors. And we cannot expect the US to seriously de-nuclearise if the whole middle east and possibly eastern asia want to develop nukes. This is just how the world is however much you or I don't really like it.

[edit on 29-7-2009 by john124]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by breakingdradles

 

You know I would not only love to see that, but see our Country return to the days when we were actually liberators and not just oppressors killing innocent men, women and children and destroying their property and lives like the Israelis do.

Our values really used to mean something to us, enough to not just live by them in good times and hard times, but to extend them to friend and foe alike.

How did we loose our way and loose sight of equality and justice for all, seperation of church and state, and not being a colonial power or empire.

I really can't believe we have become like this, cowered by fear in our own country, in our own airports in our own buildings, treated with suspicion, spied on all the time, living in this atmosphere where we are all suddenly weak and afraid and full of prejudice and blind hate for different cultures and people and that we need an oppressive all powerful government to protect us.

I blame the Israeli mindset, and the dual citizens and intelligence agencies and the misquided choosing sides foreign policy that brought it all to pass.

I am old enough to remember a far different America and I sure do miss it.

Ending Israel's reign of terror on us and Europe and the Middle East is what we need to do to get this nation back on track and run by Americans, for Americans with American Ideals and not Zionist ones.

I really do believe that, and I really hope one day enough people wake up to the reality that Israel's refusal to make peace and profit off of war is what created the terrorist problem for the United States.

They just keep making problems for us, and we just keep letting them.

Our forefathers would be ashamed to see their dream of a free and independent, fair minded, justice for all oriented nation having slipped to this base lowest common denominator where we act worse than our so called enemies to show them how much better we are.

What a shame, what a shame.

That's one-sided. Please also take into account the 1000's of rockets that have been fired into Israel in the past few years - each with a potential of killing several people. There was an intention to kill 1000's of people, would you be happy if somebody tried to kill people in your town but missed because their hardware didn't have the accuracy or were just incompotent. Would you not cry out for your govt. to do something about it?

If that happened here in Britain I would want my govt. to blast the hell out of them, because to me my life matters more than the terrorists and the civilians that the terrorists use as human shields. Narcissism is human nature, and to presence one's life in the event of been under attack. I would want my govt. to look for the best ways to minimise civilian casualties and prevent it from ever happening again if possible.

Would you do the same? Or would you just sit there and say "no... we can't bomb them because they have women hostages... whilst your next door neighbour had his kitchen blown to bits and lost a leg". And what about Israeli's who have lost limbs or become disfigured or injured. Do they not matter because they are alive. What about emotional trauma of being under constant attack. I have to accept that Israel has probably used reasonable means to defend itself unless the evidence to suggest otherwise can be presented.

And under the event of this evidence surfacing, then it has to examined rationally without pre-sumptions to associate blame. All countries that have to go to war on a large enough scale incur civilian casualties... it's part of war and the sad part of human nature.

And to blame those for possibly using more force than was needed in your opinion in the manner that you would blame somebody for starting a conflict, when Israel were clearly not the instigators. To have such a one-sided view is tantamount to spreading propaganda, and favours the Muslim extremists and so helps keep your country in this state of fear.

The problem needs to be dealt with appropriately and responsibly, and palestinians and gazans need to take responsibility as well, and also their associated blame as well as Israel. But I see more blame towards the Islamic side in terms of evidence. I agree Israel must not bomb Iran at this present point in time. That would be suicidal on several scales politically and literally. And I would condemn it 100% and expect the US and Britain to do the same as refuse to defend Israel. But in the event of it been necessary and fruitful for an offensive or a defensive, then I would fully support Israel 100% and expect my country to do so as well.


[edit on 29-7-2009 by john124]

reply to post by john124


My friend the Zionists stole the land the rockets are being fired on to.

Honestly what do they expect?

Israel is a criminal and terrorist state and the United States of America should be firing our missiles on them until they withdraw from the illegally occupied territories and lift the siege on Gaza.

I am being very fair.

Sorry I don't condone people stealing other peoples land no matter how entitled they feel or what weak minded and foolish people who can be convinced they are entitled to steal it.

A theif is a theif is a theif and if Israel would stop stealing land, and settling civilians on it to use as human shields, no one at all would be firing rockets.

That is really what's fair and the only way it becomes not fair is when people condone theft.

Those rockets are being fired into stolen lands where people illegally dwell on it.

Take all the religion out of it, and that's what you have.

Take the Holocaust excuse that the Europeans not the Palestinians perpetrated out of it and that's what you have.

A group of people stealing land and then crying that they are being attacked for it.

Let them come steal your house and see how you like it.

You want the Palestinians to roll over and take it, but not the Israelis to accept that they brought it all on themselves by stealing the land.

Talk about a screwed up set of values!

Originally posted by Vitchilo
I hate to say this but in the end, Israel will win. If it comes to total showdown, nukes will be used, the world opinion be damned.

You seem to forget how many treaties would be broke if this happened.

This would give the Arabs/China/Russia the green light to nuke them back.

And they WOULD be nuked back.

If Iran doesn't already have nukes, they will be supplied with them if nuked.