GOP headache: The birther issue

When lawmakers return home for recess in August, they can expect to hear tough questions from constituents on the economy, health care and government spending.

But Republicans are preparing for something else: the birthers.

As GOP Rep. Mike Castle learned the hard way back home in Delaware this month, there’s no easy way to deal with the small but vocal crowd of right-wing activists who refuse to believe that President Barack Obama was born in the United States.

Source Link: www.politico.com...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5e1c197367e0.jpg[/atsimg]Rep. Mike Castle gives a speech during a press conference.

The headache for the GOP besides the "Birthers" is being out of touch with he people from their States, they ARE listening to the uproar of the people of the changes that are being made, their also seeing the reaction from the public as they stop fighting for our rights and they know of what is coming down the pike.

They are going to have to come out sooner then later to admit that we are no longer America as we knew it. We are "The North American Union", the U.S. Consitution is no longer valid and are operating under a new Global Bill of Rights. The headache will really come when they announce it outright on the news publically and all Americans lose it setting off marches on our local Capitals.

"Update" Here is an additional link that touches on this thread and links "Birthers" to "9/11 Truther". rawstory.com...



[edit on 06/03/2009 by Rams59lb]

The Republican Party is becoming a victim of the monster itself created in order to distract attention away from the fact that McCain was the candidate who wasn't eligible for the presidency. As to why people brought into the whole birther joke of a conspiracy either they are extremely gullible or have no understanding of the issue . Mind you some people who don't buy into the nonsense don't understand the issue either .

reply to post by xpert11


You thinking McCain wasn't eligible is a ignorant as those who doesn't think Obama is eligable.

This whole thing won't go away just like some people still say Bush stole the 2000 election.

Doesn't matter if McCain had won and Obama had lost. We would have to suffer the left wing activists saying the same thing that is being said about Obama.

Pretty much as you are doing.

Originally posted by jd140
You thinking McCain wasn't eligible is a ignorant as those who doesn't think Obama is eligable.

McCain isnt a Natural Born American Citizen(SP?) . Yes he is an American citizen but he was born outside of the USA . McCain inherited his American Citizenship from his parents . So by the US Constitution he was never a eligible presidential candidate in the first place .

Cheers xpert11 .

reply to post by xpert11


And there you have the "birther" arguement.

Edit your post to substitute McCain with Obama and you will be a "birther".

reply to post by jd140


The only way the Obama birther argument could even remotely stack up is if the perpetrators claimed he was born in Hawaii before it become a state or put another way apart of the Union . McCain birth place was not and still isnt a state like Hawaii or Alaska so this is why Obama and McCain eligibility is not just the differnt side of one coin .

Cheers xpert11 .

reply to post by xpert11


I don't argue with birthers, so I will post this link which explains it pretty well and leave you to your left wing activist birther beliefs.

leahy.senate.gov...

I do find it odd that you would discount anyone eligible for the Presidency simply because they were born to a service member who was stationed overseas.

Anywho, theres the link and there are more like it if you feel inclined to google it.

Originally posted by jd140
I don't argue with birthers, so I will post this link which explains it pretty well and leave you to your left wing activist birther beliefs.

Clearly you know about as much as my political leanings as you do the topic at hand . I preferred some of McCain policy's to Obama in fact . The US constitution is Supreme Law it can't be over ridden by meaningless Congressional Resolutions .

I do find it odd that you would discount anyone eligible for the Presidency simply because they were born to a service member who was stationed overseas.

Well that statement just shows your complete lack of understanding of the issue . The occupation of McCain parents is ill relevant what matters is that he was born outside of the USA .

I may be the only one bringing this up, but United States territory includes more than the fifty states, folks. Guam is sovereign U.S. territory, as is Puerto Rico, American Samoa, etc. This is settled law from long ago. You have the right to your own opinions, but the law is the law is the law. You can't just make it up to suit your arguments - but God knows you try hard!

reply to post by Office 4256


I wouldn't be so sure that McCain birth place was sovereign US soil . For example the Cook Islands have what is termed a free association with New Zealand but they are not New Zealand sovereign soil . Since the US Constitution was written a few things have cropped up such as what we are now discussing . Besides McCain eligibility is a Constitutional not a legal issue .

Cheers xpert11 .

reply to
post by xpert11

I wouldn't be so sure that McCain birth place was sovereign US soil. For example the Cook Islands have what is termed a free association with New Zealand but they are not New Zealand sovereign soil. Since the US Constitution was written a few things have cropped up such as what we are now discussing. Besides McCain eligibility is a Constitutional not a legal issue.

You get an A+ in US Con Law, Mr X11.

Exercising jurisdiction over a particular place does not make that place into another place. Birthers are part of the Palin/Limbaugh Axis of Ignorance and are hopeless! They take a certain irrational pride in their stubbornness!

The issue of “natural born” has never come up before at least not to the point where it got into the court system. Only the Supreme Court can resolve this issue. And the Court does not offer advisory opinions. So, until it happens, there will be disagreements over its application.

The problem is, BIRTHERS cannot distinguish between NATURAL BORN and ORDINARY or naturalized citizenship.

The problem is made somewhat more complicated because we do have possessions outside the United States we call TERRITORIES. CONGRESS has by law decreed persons born in those places are citizens of the United States.

As I irreverently recite, “Congress can make you a citizen but only GOD can make you natural born!”

TERRITORIES. Puerto Rico is the largest populated territory, with about 3.9 million inhabitants. Also are the District of Columbia; U.S. Virgin Islands; Guam; American Soma; and the latest, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands. Note: The US House of Representatives admits a DELEGATE from each of the six foregoing, and grants them full power as if a Member, with the exception that their vote cannot be decisive on any final vote on passage. WOW! PS. By all rights, Puerto Rico should have 6 delegates, not just 1.

HISTORY: The US took possession of both the Panama Canal Zone and Guantanamo Bay (Cuba) in 1903. (In neither case was the power of the negotiating sides equal. In civil law, such an unequal bargain would be set aside). To be consistent, BIRTHERS would have to claim both the Canal Zone and Git-mo is actually the "United States!" But followers of the Palin/Limbaugh Axis of Ignorance are noted for NOT being consistent when it confounds their specious arguments.

CONSTITUTION: The US Constitution, Article 1 - the legislative branch - lays out the powers granted to Congress. Section 8, Clause 4, says in part, [Congress shall have power ] “To establish a uniform rule of naturalization . . “ AND Clause 18, “[Congress shall have power] "To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.”

TWO KINDS (CLASSES) OF CITIZENS. To illustrate that the writers of the US Constitution knew and valued the two ways to be a citizen, let us examine the requirements for Member of Congress and for the Presidency. Let’s go to Article 1, the legislative branch article. Section 2, Clause 2, “No person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the age of twenty five years, and been seven years a citizen of the United States . . “

AND also, for senators, Section 3, Clause 2: “No person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the age of thirty years, and been nine years a citizen of the United States . . “ Simply put, this means any foreign born person who has been a citizen of the US for the required number of years can serve in the Congress.

Now, as to who can be president, the writers of the US Con decided ONLY a SPECIAL class of citizens would be eligible to the office. For that, let’s go to Article 2, the executive branch article, and to Section 1, Clause 4, “No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President . . “

Note especially the first seven words. Natural born means to be born inside the country. And like it or not, Panama is not the United States any more than Guantanamo Bay is the United States. CONCLUSION. John McCain was NOT eligible to the office of president. Had he have won the election, and the Supreme Court found him ineligible to the office, then the walking around "I can see Russia" nincompoop Sarah Palin would have been sworn in as our president!


[edit on 7/31/2009 by donwhite]

Politico

Only 77% of Americans, overall, think Obama was born in the USA.
That's not a 'fringe' group. That's substantial.

Originally posted by xpert11
Yes he is an American citizen but he was born outside of the USA .

He was born on what is considered to be American Soil.
That's what happens when children of military families are born on US bases.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Yes he is an American citizen but he was born outside of the USA .
He was born on what is considered to be American Soil.
That's what happens when children of military families are born on US bases.

The problem is that US bases overseas are not US soil. I know this isn't the best example but if a child was to be born at the section of Christchurch airport used by the US military to a American servicemen . Now that child would not be a Natural Born Citizen because he/she was born on Kiwi soil . Some people will treat there favorite overseas holiday destination as an extension of there own country . Despite how they feel ( enter name of holiday destination ) is still foreign soil . I have nothing against McCain personally but ones place of birth is just how the cookie crumbles .

Don perhaps I should go to the US and lecture on the matter even if it is just to have the audience question my accent .

McCain's place of birth is now irrelevant.

However, Obama's isn't.

Palin's mental status is. At least, it is at this point.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


You know normally I would agree with you concerning McCain presidential eligibility . IMO never the less the issue is worth examining because it shows the fundamental lack of understanding some Americans have concerning there own leaders eligibility requirements . Some countries such as New Zealand have made changes to existing laws so that no direct equivalent of a Natural Born Citizen exists anymore . Note to the reader since New Zealand doesn't have a formal Constitution like the US issues related to citizenship are legal issues .

I agree that proof of eligibility should be of prime concern given the current circumstances and we need legislation to make sure we never have to entertain these questions ever again.

However, John McCain will never again run for president and Sarah Palin is now out of politics. Baseless commentary about her intelligence is both tasteless and unnecessary.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I agree that proof of eligibility should be of prime concern given the current circumstances and we need legislation to make sure we never have to entertain these questions ever again.

Are you referring to the legislation that requires a presidential candidate to publicly reveal there Birth Certificate ?
If so then the legislation is barking up the wrong tree since it ignores the issue of what US sovereign soil is constitutional defined as . Since it is a constitutional matter I don't think it can be purely resolved by US law anyway .

So short of a Supreme Court challenge to set things right is there a way of Constitutionally resolving this matter ?

However, John McCain will never again run for president and Sarah Palin is now out of politics. Baseless commentary about her intelligence is both tasteless and unnecessary.

Well I agree that commenting on Palin is unnecessary and I have made no mention of her in this thread . I also agree that McCain wont run for president again . What matters isnt McCain political future but the prescient he set . You see under the current prescient any American born overseas could falsely claim that they were Natural Born Citizen provided Congress played ball .

reply to post by xpert11


Whatever legislation is passed, it should eliminate any ambiguity.

That is all I'm saying.

Can anyone explain why it was ok for the democrats i invite Michel Moore to the Democratic National Convention after he accused Bush of stealing the election? Yet again, it appears Democrats live by a different set of standards. They don't seem to like it when you turn their own crap around on them and neither does the MSM.

reply to post by Wimbly


I have a question for you .

Just how in the Earth what you stated have anything to do with the topic ?

Cheers xpert1 .