Noahs Ark, Fable?

I'm atheist, we'll start out there!

I see many christians considered much of the bible as open to interpretation, but claim Noah's Ark is real, and somehow was found on mount whatever.

I find this incredibly, excruciatingly hard to even start to acknowledge.

Honestly, how does one person, get every animal on earth into a boat, while we're still discovering new animals to this day.

For that matter, how does adam name each animal while we're still discovering new ones to this day.

Again this is back in a time we're it was assumed that the earth was, probably before that, and they didn't know much of the earth and humans were few and far between.


But in any stretch to think this monstocity to common sense occured is insulting to human intelligence.

Looking for thoughts or rebuttals.

But honestly, i'm not going to back up with any claims, just pure common sense.
I wish repliers to do the same, please no sources, imagine this to just be a one on one discussion, as it commonly is in churches, or street evanglist.

You can quote the bible, but remember, I don't believe the bible at all, so don't argue with something that in itself is highly questionable.

Meaning that, say I had a book and claimed it was written by aliens, and you said, how do you know aliens wrote it, I respond with because on page 46 it says that 'we' aliens wrote this.

That is just silly.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by Republican08]

here. this covers the arks discovery really well.

the first has a list of the majority of ark finding claims and general rebuttal of them
www.talkorigins.org...

and
this focuses primarily on it being found on ararat
www.talkorigins.org...

I don't believe the Ark story. Even as a child the story didn't hold any water (pardon the pun).

Firstly, It would have been logistically impossible to gather 2 of every animal. We had continents separated by seas and he would have needed a ship to gather them all... millions of them... mammals, marsupials, reptiles, insects, arachnids ... etc etc etc.

Secondly, he could not have built a ship (ark) with enough structural integrity to accommodate the sheer size the ark would be required to be to house said animals and supplies such as food and water. They just didn't have the knowhow, technology or materials.

Like many things in the bible... it requires 'faith' or stupidity... and a LOT of it!

IRM

reply to post by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest


I don't know if your being sarcastic, or didn't read my whole post.

The arc story is also recorded in the carved tablets from the time of the Sumerians so maybe we could file a plagiarism suit against the authors of the bible,lol. Sumarians also had correlating stories about Adam and Eve and if I am not mistaken the inscribed stones the stories were similar to the tablets recording the Ten Commandments. I do see the argument in it being a "inconceivable" story but I think that is what draws people who worship god. I believe that faith was the moral of that story in my opinion. Taking it literally I would have to say that the Grand Canyon on many other places show signs of erosion that are just as hard to comprehend happening as well. Whether you choose to believe the "Holy Bible" as a book written as a literal interpretation or was created to be used as a tool to control the masses I don't think there is any argument it contains many interesting stories that are compelling to ones understanding of the interpretation of life. I must also admit the stories of the satellite photos of the "boat" on the mountain are pretty good stories as well if you enjoy that sort of thing.

Originally posted by Republican08

Honestly, how does one person, get every animal on earth into a boat, while we're still discovering new animals to this day.

For that matter, how does adam name each animal while we're still discovering new ones to this day.

Coincidently I was just doing research on Noah's ark this morning.

Not really sure about the zoology project that Noah had going on. Have't got that far yet.

I am finding the history of the region surrounding Persia to be quite fascinating. Before Abraham (Abram) the bible takes place in the Persian region.

I started researching the Aryans and Vedism and cross comparing the Bible to the Rig Veda.

Our Aryan Heritage: Learn about your real spiritual heritage
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am wondering if Manu (Rig Veda) and Noah (Bible) are one and the same.

In Hindu traditions, Manu is a title accorded to the progenitor of mankind, and also the very first king to rule this earth, who saved mankind from the universal flood.

en.wikipedia.org...(Hinduism)

One problem though Manu had 10 sons and Noah only 3, unless I am missing something.


[edit on 29-6-2009 by In nothing we trust]

Since you mentioned you were an atheist it brings a question to mind relating to your post. Hypothetically speaking, if it was discovered they actually found a boat on top of a mountain of gigantic proportions(I think Noah had over 100 years to build it in the story-which creates a few more questions, lol) how do you imagine yourself processing that. Just wondering.

What was your first clue that the entire story was a fable?

Perhaps when they started by rounding up over a million different species?

Or when they attempted to build a million enclosures to keep the animals in?


Come on people, in 1AD, most average people knew absolutely nothing other than what they were told, so it was easy for them to believe fairy tales. But news flash people, its 2009, everything in the bible has been scientifically proven to be not only improbable but impossible. To devout ones life to a plagiarized book about an imaginary savior is ignorance in its purest form.

EDIT: To fix spelling, wrote this in hurry..



[edit on 29-6-2009 by king9072]

reply to post by Jnewell33


reply to post by Jnewell33



Although, it's still unlikely that, every animal on earth moved them from this single mountain, on a long trot back to where it is as of now, and the canary island would be wooh, out the door.

I would find occams razor in it, instead of automatically assuming it was a deity.

May I ask you this, say we find a bizarre snail like creature on hmmmmm.... mercury (he's got a big shell for the heat!) how would you process that?

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
I don't believe the Ark story. Even as a child the story didn't hold any water (pardon the pun).

Firstly, It would have been logistically impossible to gather 2 of every animal. We had continents separated by seas and he would have needed a ship to gather them all... millions of them... mammals, marsupials, reptiles, insects, arachnids ... etc etc etc.

Secondly, he could not have built a ship (ark) with enough structural integrity to accommodate the sheer size the ark would be required to be to house said animals and supplies such as food and water. They just didn't have the knowhow, technology or materials.

Like many things in the bible... it requires 'faith' or stupidity... and a LOT of it!

IRM

First could be the possibility that during Noah's time, Earth was still one continent, the commonly known 'Pangea' continent. It could also help strengthen the theory, thanks to you that timeline of men and dinosaurs have overlapped, thus, we might have existed during the time when there only one continent....

Second, it may seem nerve-wracking that how a ship could hold all the world's species? Well it is at first, but if you think of it carefully, you only need a male and female of each species. We only need to take land-dwelling species(that includes birds and some amphibians too). Finally, diversity of species may not be as wide now as it was Noah's time, but we actually don't know.

It was also mentioned that they had divine help. They didn't do this alone, especially the guiding of the animals to the ship.

Originally posted by king9072
What was your first clue the that the entire story was a fable?

Well since were talking about fables. I thought I'd throw this in.

2 Peter 1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

I wonder if the followers of Jesus knew about the ark?

Originally posted by ahnggk

Secondly, he could not have built a ship (ark) with enough structural integrity to accommodate the sheer size the ark would be required to be to house said animals and supplies such as food and water. They just didn't have the knowhow, technology or materials.

It could have been a spaceship and Noah could have had a library of genetic samples of all the species.

[edit on 29-6-2009 by In nothing we trust]

reply to post by Republican08


First of all, it was six of every animal and two of the unclean ones (pigs, cattle, etc). Second, it landed on Mount Ararat. Third, it wasn't all animals all over the world, as it's understood that it wasn't the whole entire world that flooded, just the entire world as the people in the story saw it.

Basically this is what Biblical historians say happened:
Every Spring the Tigris River overflows. Every so often the overflowing of the river is so bad that it floods the entire Tigris River Valley. It's believed that particular time, humans only lived in that valley, and didn't exist elsewhere on the globe. Hence, the story of the Tower of Babble, and God having to tell the humans to spread out among the land, eventually forcing them to spread out due to language barriers.

Anyway, what happened that particular year was that the river so overflowed that it drowned everyone and everything in the valley, except those on the ark. However, due to the flooding being only within that region, Noah and his family only needed to gather the species of animals that lived there. Therefore, there was no need to grab every species that we now know of, just the ones native to the Tigris River Valley.

Originally posted by ahnggk

First could be the possibility that during Noah's time, Earth was still one continent, the commonly known 'Pangea' continent. It could also help strengthen the theory, thanks to you

that timeline of men and dinosaurs have overlapped, thus, we might have existed during the time when there only one continent....

Sorry but in the theory, Noah did NOT live in the time of Pangaea. They are many millions of years apart! Nice try though!

Second, it may seem nerve-wracking that how a ship could hold all the world's species?

Not nerve wracking... Impossible!

Finally, diversity of species may not be as wide now as it was Noah's time, but we actually don't know.

Fossil records suggest otherwise. New species take more than a few thousand years to evolve. They don't spontaneously manifest out of rock.

It was also mentioned that they had divine help. They didn't do this alone, especially the guiding of the animals to the ship.

There's still not enough room on the ship for the amount of species (inc food & water) that meet your new criteria, nor are there the refined materials, equipment or knowhow to make a ship that's large enough and strong enough to survive the deluge... let alone support it's own weight and that of it's occupants.

Not to be rude or anything but your grasping at straws and making excuses for obvious holes in the fable. This is where faith becomes kinda silly.

IRM

[edit on 29/6/09 by InfaRedMan]

reply to post by MoonChild02


If I go, dressed in fancy clothes, shiny clothes per se.

Go to an african tribe, that has had no encounter with outside civilizations, and learn their language, and tell them, i'm god, and that i'm going to destroy everyone with a fire.

Then burn down their village with a flamethrower, then leave, and be on my way.

But wait I decided to throw in a curve ball, I decided two people should live, and I let them ina fire proof vault, till it was over.

After slaughtering everyone in flames. Except for them, and the animals I brought them, so they can eat, or as peta, have lots of pets!

Then after this, be on my way, and never visit them again, and become a advert man!

In 2,000 years, they still had never seen a civilization other then theirs, assuming that inbred laws don't apply. .

Would they not think the same of me.

And why on eiarth would a deity create life, then be sad that their evil, which it created, and then kill them. Banishing them to hell. Then to fix the error, the paperclip guy, says hey, commit suicide, but because your now three people its ok. Then you can save certain people.

All they have to do is acknoweldge yoru existence, and then they can live forever, and be ahppy for eternity, then kill themselves as haileys comet passes by. (just kidding haileys comet was an add in fake) But still....

Originally posted by MoonChild02
reply to post by Republican08

 

First of all, it was six of every animal and two of the unclean ones (pigs, cattle, etc). Second, it landed on Mount Ararat. Third, it wasn't all animals all over the world, as it's understood that it wasn't the whole entire world that flooded, just the entire world as the people in the story saw it.

Basically this is what Biblical historians say happened:
Every Spring the Tigris River overflows. Every so often the overflowing of the river is so bad that it floods the entire Tigris River Valley. It's believed that particular time, humans only lived in that valley, and didn't exist elsewhere on the globe. Hence, the story of the Tower of Babble, and God having to tell the humans to spread out among the land, eventually forcing them to spread out due to language barriers.

Anyway, what happened that particular year was that the river so overflowed that it drowned everyone and everything in the valley, except those on the ark. However, due to the flooding being only within that region, Noah and his family only needed to gather the species of animals that lived there. Therefore, there was no need to grab every species that we now know of, just the ones native to the Tigris River Valley.

I assume that you're a Christian defending the Bible. If you are defending the Bible you have to defend the notion that the Bible is the LITERAL Word of God, i.e. created in 6 24-hour days. So you're saying the Bible is only the literal truth when it suits you? The Bible says every animal in the world and the entire world was flooded deeper than the highest mountains. It rained for 40 days and 40 nights.

I agree with the OP, no matter how Christians try to spin it, you need to be a total imbecile to believe the flood story. Christians generally just believe the story (Hey, it's the Word of God!) without thinking about how totally impossible it is.

IMHO, the Bible is a combo of history and myth.

Originally posted by Lannock
I assume that you're a Christian defending the Bible. If you are defending the Bible you have to defend the notion that the Bible is the LITERAL Word of God, i.e. created in 6 24-hour days.

Why must the bible be defended - number 1?

Why is assumed that a christian must interpret the bible literally - number 2?

There are lots of stupid people out there who believe whatever they are told. If people believe horseshi* wouldn't that mean that they have false teachers who are decievers?

reply to post by Republican08


Apparently, the wreck of the ark was found on Mount Ararat, in Turkey I think.

But who is to say what is truth and what are lies?

Not me. I find this world a very deceptive place.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Originally posted by Lannock
I assume that you're a Christian defending the Bible. If you are defending the Bible you have to defend the notion that the Bible is the LITERAL Word of God, i.e. created in 6 24-hour days.

Why must the bible be defended - number 1?

I didn't say the Bible must be defended. I said "If".

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Why is assumed that a christian must interpret the bible literally - number 2?

That's what the Bible-thumpers like Hovind and many others say.

If the Bible must not be interpreted literally, how do you decide when it's literal and when it's not? Is the flood story a parable or something of that sort?

Originally posted by Lannock
Is the flood story a parable or something of that sort?

I honestly don't know. Do you?