We Masons are not Illuminati!!!

Originally posted by King Seesar
I think you can make a valid case that Freemasons is a breeding ground for the Illuminati and the Nwo, but there is a reason for that, because the Masons have had so many high profile members that the Illuminati sees these powerful players and try and draw them in,

While FreeMasonry has had several members who were famous in the past, looking at several lists of them, in comparison to the actual membership, this is actually a very small percentage.

Originally posted by MintWithHole
Since those who attend the celebrations (?) in Bohemian Grove are big and influential businessmen, politicians or royalty I would imagine that a very high percentage of them would be masons. After all, in some walks of life you simply cannot climb the corporate ladder unless you belong to a lodge.

I hear this a lot... I take it you've experienced this personally?

[edit on 6-7-2009 by RuneSpider]

reply to post by RuneSpider


Yes, I have experienced it twice. In some walks of life you simply cannot get promoted or climb the corporate ladder unless You belong to a lodge.
Do you remember when I said that the masons are elitist, no all snobs? Well read what brothers in arms wrote earlier!
Case proven. . .

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


What walks of life, out of curiosity?

As for Brother's post, I know many people who'd say the same of their system. It's neither intrinsic, nor unique to Masonry.

Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

What walks of life, out of curiosity?

As for Brother's post, I know many people who'd say the same of their system. It's neither intrinsic, nor unique to Masonry.

My father, it was in his work. He trained people how to operate cranes but couldn't get off the shop floor because he wasn't interested in joining. He was asked several times.
My experience was in work, in the high level security industry. I didn't get it at the time until it was pointed out to me by a friend. Luckily I was never asked to join mainly because I wasn't anywhere near management level but I know plenty who reclined an invitation to join and their careers suddenly stopped.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


I would be very interested to know what part of the world this happened in. Masonry is supposed to be against this kind of thing. In fact this scenario is specifically mentioned in my area as things that will get you thrown out of the fraternity. I would love to do some investigating into these claims. You can U2U me if you don't want to post it here.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by network dude]

Oh come on OP, once you get up to the top level ranks then post on these boards saying the masons aren't that powerful.
Hidden secrets and power have kept the masons in the game for all this time!

reply to post by RuneSpider



Masons are a easy target for the Illuminati because of the history of Masonry, both sets came up about the same time and the old age Illuminati knew that all the movers and shakers of that time were either Masons or were associates of Masons which i would guess more then peeked the intrest of the Illuminati at the time.

One thing i am wondering tho is who is this Masonic God Jaboolon that Masons worship???


freedocumentaries.net...

Originally posted by King Seesar

One thing i am wondering tho is who is this Masonic God Jaboolon that Masons worship???

freedocumentaries.net...

Each mason worships his own individual God. Some call him God, Some call him by other names. That way nobody feels left out. Our lodge is most if not all christian so we use a bible on the altar. Some lodges have other holy books on them as well as the bible or in place of. Each religion seems to have one thing in common and that is a supream being. We call him the Grand Architect to make it so that everyone knows who we are talking about. And there is no owl involved. Different group.

reply to post by network dude


But doesn't the bible tell us that there is but one god and that all other gods are false? If so, how can you all have different names for him?
God is god!! I've never understood all this zorastor, shiva and abaddon stuff. The different names for god allows plenty of scope for satanists to insert their god in there. The hand shakes, the symbolism, the feelings of superiority, it all smacks of occultism to me.
But I suppose I have that wrong as well?
Surely you masons were happier before you joined the freemasons and could speak and think for yourself? When your actions to your friends and neighbours dictated how the people around you thought of you? Wasn't that better than being slapped on the back and being told that you're better than everyone else purely because you have an apron draped around your waist? And don't you get sick to the high teeth having to fall in line and tell your brothers (how I hate that term) just how great they are? This sycathantic behaviour is appalling and just turns me off.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
But doesn't the bible tell us that there is but one god and that all other gods are false?

And just how many omnipotent beings do you suppose there are out there? I only know of one, and he doesn't really care much what name people give him (after all, he's the one who gave us all different languages anyway, right?)

If so, how can you all have different names for him?
God is god!!!

Yep. He sure is. In English. People from other cultures may be praying to the same God and using different words. That's OK. He's smart enough to figure it out.

Surely you masons were happier before you joined the freemasons and could speak and think for yourself?

As has been mentioned before, we are speaking for ourselves, which is why we're not saying the exact same thing. Wonderful thing, free will.

When your actions to your friends and neighbours dictated how the people around you thought of you?

Why should I do something solely with the desire for their praise? I don't do good deeds for admiration, celebration or attention. I do good deeds because they're the right thing to do. If someone notices, fine. If they don't, that's OK too. I give to charities anonymously; I do some of the crap-work at work that nobody else wants to take on; I do it cheerfully because its stuff that someone has to do.

Wasn't that better than being slapped on the back and being told that you're better than everyone else purely because you have an apron draped around your waist? And don't you get sick to the high teeth having to fall in line and tell your brothers (how I hate that term) just how great they are?

I don't do either. I don't know that you could point to anything we've discussed here that would indicate that any of that has any basis in truth.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
But doesn't the bible tell us that there is but one god and that all other gods are false? If so, how can you all have different names for him?

You do realize that people speak other languages then English, right? Some may call him God, others Dio, others Allah and so forth. Not too complicated once you actually think about the situation.

I've never understood all this zorastor, shiva and abaddon stuff.

Ignorance truly is bliss, is it not?

The different names for god allows plenty of scope for satanists to insert their god in there.

Why are you having such a hard time grasping the fact that Satan is an angel and it does not matter if you think he is a god?

The hand shakes, the symbolism, the feelings of superiority, it all smacks of occultism to me.
But I suppose I have that wrong as well?

Why does it matter? You obviously already had your mind made up before posting here.

Surely you masons were happier before you joined the freemasons and could speak and think for yourself? When your actions to your friends and neighbours dictated how the people around you thought of you?

I can only speak for myself but I do not go through life seeking approval from anyone but God. My actions are not dictated by a neighbors opinion, but what is morally and spiritually right.

Wasn't that better than being slapped on the back and being told that you're better than everyone else purely because you have an apron draped around your waist?

Do you not get tired of being burdened by your irrational hatred and loathing?

And don't you get sick to the high teeth having to fall in line and tell your brothers (how I hate that term)...

More loathing; could this be jealousy because you do not have any close friends?

just how great they are? This sycathantic behaviour is appalling and just turns me off.

Did you mean sycophantic? Either way, why would we have to flatter one another if membership in the Fraternity, according to your vast and wealthy knowledge, automatically guaruntees political or career advancement?










[edit on 6-7-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Yes but the other responses didn't have your tone or called me "kiddo".

My tone? Consider your own, mate. You've sought to paint Freemasons as smug, self-righteous know-it-alls when all they've done in this thread is attempt to transfer their knowledge on a variety of topics.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
A normal person well understands that there are two sides to every story. I myself in previous posts have praised the masons for the work they do with getting children hospital care etc.

Good on you. Sincerely. It is indeed worthy of praise, albeit that this is not the reason they do it.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
But these last pages of posts have opened my eyes. You see to a mason there is only one side of the story, their side! Nothing else matters. . .

Really? How's that? I see them as fairly rational blokes who are willing to accept when they are wrong. In fact, I've seen it happen here on this very forum quite a few times.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Someone earlier mentioned brainwashing. Days ago I would have laughed at such a suggestion but after what I've now read it becomes clear that there is a subtle brainwashing taking place in lodges.

Ah, so you've formulated this broad opinion of worldwide Freemasonry based on your perceptions of posts in this thread? Interesting... Absurdly myopic, but interesting nonetheless.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
By building up their self respect to abnormal lengths and giving them a feeling of self importance, coupled with the back slapping and general delight caused by pumping up each others ego's, it's no wonder that they lose grip of reality. Masons are having the part of their reasoning that is inquisitive and questions things slowly removed from their mind. They no longer have the ability to question things as their head is full of nonsense.

Again, this is a rather grand statement to make based on your perceptions of what has been posted in this thread? Is it because maybe you are frustrated that the answers you have sought weren't what you wanted?

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Why else would an ordinary descent person protect the memory of a racist?

Oh, Albert Pike again? You are viewing the whole thing through a very narrow tunnel, dude. Albert Pike was much more than "a racist", but you seem incapable of seeing anything beyond this. You've latched onto it as though it's the foundation of your beef against him and Freemasonry as a whole. As has already been stated, Pike did much for the Native American Indians in terms of human rights. He was a complicated man, but you are viewing him with a childishly simplistic looking-glass. Maybe he was a racist. As I've already said, it was kind of the norm in his time and place. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a racist according to modern terms. But it is stupid to judge him based solely on anacronistic standards. Abraham Lincoln owned slaves. Does that not make him a racist? Would you similarly demonise anyone who said anything positive about Abraham Lincoln, or does this bizarre exercise only extend as far as the Masonic figures that you particularly wish to denigrate?

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
And if you would protect the memory of a racist what else would you protect? Perhaps a mason who committed murder? How about a mason who embezzled money?

Oh dear... The inevitable, desperate extrapolation... This is a bit sad, man.

For the record, it specifically states in the charges of Freemasonry that one is obliged NOT to protect a brother who has broken the law.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


so by your standards, a Muslim who prays to Allah is going to hell. And a tribesman from Borneo who worships bugly bugly (I don't know what they call him) is also going to hell. Since he didn't call him God. See that is where my problem with organized religion is at. A baptist might think that unless you are saved in the baptist church then you are going to hell. And a catholic might feel the same way about his/her religion. I don't believe that is what God had in mind, and that is not the way masonry is. In fact that is what drew me to become a member among a few other things. My belief in God but my utter repulsion to organized religion. I think that you can talk to God and have a relationship with him and not involve any other clergy member or anyone needing 10% of your paycheck before you get to speak to him.

While you seem to be hung up on the racist thing, could you please tell me what in your eyes a racist in the year 1898 would be? That way I can apply your standards to anyone in history to find out if he was a racist. How about in 1950. Back when Black people had their own bathrooms and water fountains. They had to sit at the back of the bus. Wouldn't the entire population who thought that was OK be racist? Things change over time and opinions change. We seem to be going the opposite way with racism at this time. There are prominent Black leaders spewing hate and trying to drive opinions the other way. It seems as if equality is no longer the goal, and domination is for some. But that is another matter.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

But doesn't the bible tell us that there is but one god and that all other gods are false?

And doesn't the Bhagavad Gita tell us that God was incarnate in Krishna? And doesn't the Quran tell us that Muhammed was the last Prophet? And doesn't the Zend Avesta tell us that there is no God beside Ahura Mazda?

Surely you masons were happier before you joined the freemasons and could speak and think for yourself?

Why do you think that that Masonry became so popular with the freethinkers of the Enlightenment?

Because its a FREETHINKERS SOCIETY. DUH!

Freemasons may not be evil, knowingly, but they do get the best jobs in the world.






So can somone please tell me what Freemasonry has to do with the moon landings?

reply to post by Sparkey76


then please point me to something with a mid 6 figure income. I am even willing to work for it. I don't know every mason on this board, but just go ahead and ask them how many are making the big bucks. Most I have spoken to are in the same boat as me. Just getting by.

reply to post by network dude

Hi, dude, I'm back. Thanks for your reassuring words (U2U)

I think you're missing the point about my hang up with Pike and his racism. Yes, views towards race and colour do change over a period of time, and when I questioned his racist views I was expecting replies along that line. What I received instead was replies protecting Pike, sticking up for his principles and basically trying to brush the whole thing under the carpet. Yes, Pike may have done a lot for freemasonry but his racist views should be condemned.
I'll say it again, masons just can't condemn a fellow brother. Makes me wonder just how far the masons would go to cover up more serious crimes, after all it wouldn't be too hard considering most judges belong to a lodge. A simple masonic gesture from the box and the person would find himself walking out of court scott free no matter what crime he had committed.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


The whole idea of mason protecting Pike is misconstrued. If you read most of the replies, they are talking about what it is that he accomplished and did for masonry. Most even admitted that he would be considered racist by todays standards. (maybe even by 1890 standards), but that in itself does not make the man someone who should be shunned. As was stated, many great leaders of that time owned slaves. We still think alot of them in history books. Like I said earlier, most Americans were racist by todays standards all the way up to the late 60s. (Of course all that is fixed now)

edit to add: The idea that all judges are masons is a bit of a farce. Some are I am sure, but I would venture a guess that it is a small percentage. I still have to pay my fines for speeding tickets. (since I am too stupid to just slow down)

Pike's philosophy has very good meaning in it. If you follow some of what he talks about, it will make you a better person. Now anyone with a mind of their own will be able to filter out the things they personally don't believe in. Which is what most people have done with everyone in the history books. Masons are all individuals, and can have a wide variation of beliefs. I know some who are blatently racist today. While that theory is directly in conflict with the tenants of masonry, that is how they were brought up and aparently have no desire to try to better their belief system. They are still my brothers and it is not my place to judge them. I wish their thought would change, but then again I wish I would win the lottery. (both have equal chances of coming true)

I guess my point is, some things change over time, and some things don't, but to completely dismiss an entire lifetime of masonic contributions because you didn't like his views on something would be a terrible waste. Who among us is without sin? Let them cast the first stone.

[edit on 8-7-2009 by network dude]

reply to post by network dude

I just don't agree. It would be like forgiving Hitler for murdering millions of jews and starting WW2 because he gave us the Volkswagon Beetle and autobahns! I was specifically refering to Pikes racism, nothing more ,nothing less, and I wanted to know how masons felt about it. I didn't want to hear how he opened a certain lodge or how everyone at that time had similar views. But nobody could bring themselves to condemn him. . .
Let me put it this way; I have openly said that I like the way the shriners help sick children find medical care, but at the same time I dislike the whole masonic ideal and ritual stuff. It all smacks of occultism. I see a good and bad side. To masons there is only one side, a good side, and anyone who brings attention to the murky grey areas of the fraternity, such as I, is instantly called uneducated.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by network dude

 

I'll say it again, masons just can't condemn a fellow brother.

Wrong. Masons'll condemn a fellow brother where condemnation is warranted. However, when you're calling Masons down (all Masons regardless of whether they're SJ Scottish Rite or not) for not joining in the revisionist condemnation you feel is warranted don't be surprised if there's a resounding silence. Clearly you're willing to dismiss any good the man did with one wave of the racist epithet, ignoring any point that has been made that those views were the general mainstream at the time of writing. And obviously any acts of his vis a vis the Prince Hall that don't jibe with the absolutist "racist" label are ignored out of hand.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Makes me wonder just how far the masons would go to cover up more serious crimes, after all it wouldn't be too hard considering most judges belong to a lodge.

Again with a hoary canard. If anything, Masons would be judged more harshly by a judge who was also Mason. But of course, there's no convincing those who consider Monty Python sketches to be cinema verité.