If O'bama is a Muslim,so what!

Before this thread goes completely off the rails, I have a few points.

#1, @ the OP, why give President Obama an irish inflection? I've heard him referred to as 'Barry O'bammy' before. Sounds awfully Irish, but then, a lot of American heritage has Irish roots, so meh.

#2, What's with all of the crusader mentality in this thread?! It's awfully twelfth century. So what if there's a chance he might be oh so slightly Muslim? Is it because of MSM fuelled tension against the middle east that people have an irrational distrust of the Muslim world? Let's not forget that a lot of the tension in that region was started by US/UK intelligence organising coups against the then governments and then fuelling the flames. The muslim world has every right to be cynical.

#3, again, to the OP, yeah, what does it really matter that he is (or indeed is not) a Muslim? He's just a man trying to do his job, which he earned the title of by gaining majority support of the US population. Kudos.

#4, Not all of the founding fathers wanted to base their country on Christian beliefs, most notably Thomas Jefferson, who said:

No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

Don't drink the Kool Aid people.

Originally posted by WisdomInChains
If he lied to win the election it is a big deal that fact that people don't care because all politicians lie is a bigger deal.

Of course he lied,the race goes to ever tells the best lie. One candidate tells the truth and one tells you what you want to hear.Obama is already breaking his campaign promises. But you don't really need to read the news to know that, do you? Virtually all successful politicians break their promises.

The fact is where at war with radical muslims you wouldn't expect a japanese person to be elected during ww2 would you.

If he was an American citizen and he was the best of both evils I would.Also this kind of thinking is what lead to the Japanese Internment camps during WWII. We said that Americans in the future will never again be denied their constitutional rights.

Yeah he's the same guy. The same guy that is filleting us with his continual put down of America in front of the world. No other president kowtowed to any religion. They addressed nations, leaders and citizens not followers.

He is the same guy legislating a weaker military while advertising we will use civilized means in dealing with barbaric terrorism. We will "play nice" no matter how you play.

If he were a Muslim and became known and he called himself a Christian as we have seen him do, it would be problematic for him and the country. There are major sins which have been forbidden by Allah in the Quran. For instance, learning knowledge of the religion (Islam) for the sake of this world and concealing that knowledge is a major sin. Abandoning relatives is a major sin. A leader's deceiving his people and being unjust to them is a major sin. Breaking contracts is a major sin. Charging or paying interest is a major sin. Worshiping others (Christ) is a major sin. "The four major Sunni Madh'hab (schools of Islamic jurisprudence) all agree that apostasy is the gravest sin in Islam and require the application of the death penalty" excerpted from Wikipedia. There are publicly recorded instances of all the above. What you are proposing, that either his having left Islam or his hiding his true Islamic beliefs is a "so what". Please read what Wikipedia has to say about Apostasy in Islam.


Apostasy in Islam

Do you see how this can be problematic? I am of the impression that this would make the president an Islamic fundamentalist target to the extreme. And so running as a Christian to pull votes while being a Muslim is not a "so what" premise.

Originally posted by purehughness
So what if there's a chance he might be oh so slightly Muslim? Is it because of MSM fuelled tension against the middle east that people have an irrational distrust of the Muslim world? Let's not forget that a lot of the tension in that region was started by US/UK intelligence organising coups against the then governments and then fuelling the flames. The muslim world has every right to be cynical.

if ever questions about obama were NOT fueled by the MSM, this is the time. Praise has been heaped upon him from all sides. everything he says and does is hailed as the biggest breakthrough in history. any questions that might arise in some misguided minds are swept away with disdain by his media acolytes. so don't be blaming questions about muslim sympathies on the mainstream media. that is BEYOND laughable.

Originally posted by skeetontheconspiracy
Reply to post by Eight

 

THe problem with NObama being a muslim is the fact he stated that he is christian. If it turns out he is of muslim faith he flat out lied to every single american, in order to be elected. But that wouldj ust add another lie to every other lie he t old to be elected. That's why I don't like him, he has not kept any of his promises. He's a big fat phony

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Politicians break their promises because voters don’t really punish them for l promise breaking. But why do politicians want to break their promises in the first place? The simplest answer IMO is that circumstances change between promise time and action time.

For example, If a politician say “I will end the war”, then we get attacked again, and we continue the war. Did he lie or was he forced to continue the war due to the actions of others?

This is a reflection of what is going on today in Iraq. I know for a fact that he has went back on some of the things he has said concerning ending the war,but that don’t make him a liar. We only see our little small square of the entire picture.

Originally posted by purehughness
Before this thread goes completely off the rails, I have a few points.

#1, @ the OP, why give President Obama an irish inflection? I've heard him referred to as 'Barry O'bammy' before. Sounds awfully Irish, but then, a lot of American heritage has Irish roots, so meh.

"Obammy" is a racial slight at him,the same as calling him "Willis" or "leroy".

#2, What's with all of the crusader mentality in this thread?! It's awfully twelfth century. So what if there's a chance he might be oh so slightly Muslim? Is it because of MSM fuelled tension against the middle east that people have an irrational distrust of the Muslim world? Let's not forget that a lot of the tension in that region was started by US/UK intelligence organising coups against the then governments and then fuelling the flames. The muslim world has every right to be cynical.

Have you ever stood for anything? If yes then you are a hypocrite by asking me this question. Obama being Muslim means nothing to me, which is why I asked the questioned "so what". Also how many wars have been started by Christians?

#4, Not all of the founding fathers wanted to base their country on Christian beliefs, most notably Thomas Jefferson, who said:

No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

Looking at what has gone on in the last 10 or 15 years do you really think this government pays any attention to the Constitution?

It doesn't matter that he's a Muslim. What matter is that he lied about it. This new man of HOPE is not supposed to tell lies like that, he should of just said, "Hey I am a Muslim."

Instead he said, "I am not a muslim."

Lieing is very unbecoming. And once again he just proves that he is no better than Bush, Regan, Bush Snr. Clinton,.... hell all of them. He's just another polictican... Not a man of HOPE...


yep and to take it one step further any sitting president is supposedly to be a natural born citizen of the united states. so when i see proof as anyone else has had to show a birth certificate. then i will have no problems with this man of hope and change.

the only thing, i feel as if the us is in a deep well asking for a ladder to get out of the well and obama is standing at the top of the well looking down on us and saying< keep the hope and faith up i will send you a ladder. as the days go by we are still in this well persay. hearing yet again obama saying keep your faith and hope alive i am sending you down a ladder

It shouldn't matter of what religion someone is.

Lying about it matters!

O'bama is a very charasmatic politician but politics is synonym with LIES

Who knows maybe he's the anti-christ, time will tell guys

[edit on 6/8/2009 by Melyanna Tengwesta]

Hes not a muslim, Im pretty sure reptilians have a completely different set of religious beliefs.

Originally posted by Hemisphere
Yeah he's the same guy. The same guy that is filleting us with his continual put down of America in front of the world. No other president kowtowed to any religion. They addressed nations, leaders and citizens not followers.

This can be seen also as trying to mend fences. What is wrong in saying, I'm sorry, or It's my fault? The old way of being arrogant has gotten us only further resentment.

He is the same guy legislating a weaker military while advertising we will use civilized means in dealing with barbaric terrorism. We will "play nice" no matter how you play.

America has always played nice. That is why the USS Stark was hit, The enemy fighters didn't respond to IFF and SOP was not followed, and you know the rest of the story. If we wasn't civil we would have shot them right out of the sky without the slightest compunction.

If he were a Muslim and became known and he called himself a Christian as we have seen him do, it would be problematic for him and the country.

How so?

There are major sins which have been forbidden by Allah in the Quran. For instance, learning knowledge of the religion (Islam) for the sake of this world and concealing that knowledge is a major sin. Abandoning relatives is a major sin. A leader's deceiving his people and being unjust to them is a major sin. Breaking contracts is a major sin. Charging or paying interest is a major sin. Worshiping others (Christ) is a major sin. "The four major Sunni Madh'hab (schools of Islamic jurisprudence) all agree that apostasy is the gravest sin in Islam and require the application of the death penalty" excerpted from Wikipedia.

Irrelevant, the Bible says "Thou shall not kill" but that does and didn't stop our Christian leaders from going to war. If he is a Muslim I don't see how his faith will stop him. Have you forgotten, based on his orders,the captain of that ship is alive and the pirates are dead?

There are publicly recorded instances of all the above. What you are proposing, that either his having left Islam or his hiding his true Islamic beliefs is a "so what". Please read what Wikipedia has to say about Apostasy in Islam.

This what Christianity does to those who pray to another God.

When Moses came down from Mount Sinai after receiving the Ten Commandments he saw the people of Israel had created a golden calf. God saw this as a rejection of him so he became angry and wanted to kill all the people of Israel. When Moses came down, Moses too became very angry. So He ordered the Levites to go through the people and kill those who rejected God by prying to another God. About 3'000 of the people died on that day.

Do you see how this can be problematic? I am of the impression that this would make the president an Islamic fundamentalist target to the extreme. And so running as a Christian to pull votes while being a Muslim is not a "so what" premise.

Ok,I can see that. But I know a few people that was of the Muslim faith then reverted back and they are still walking around to this very day.

I think there is more to this that you or I can comprehend and with our ignorance of the religion we can only over simplify issues pertaining to it.

I don't have a problem with Obama being a Muslim. I have a problem with him lying about it. I also have a very big problem with him being an illegal alien.

All of this talk about American Bigotry. While I doubt Obama can be labled devout in any specific religion. I don't see the US as any different from any other country.

Would a non-jew be elected pres of Israel? Would a non-muslim be elected in a muslim country? Why would it be such a surprise to see a non-christian not get elected in a Christian founded country?

Is it because NA is constantly preaching its wonderful tolerance and leadership of equality to the rest of the world? It is painful to look into the mirror sometimes.

O’bama is not a Muslim. We know this because he has told us so, we know it because there is no credible evidence to suggest otherwise. No one has questioned the faith of McCain, why? It’s doesn’t matter if he lost, this has been going on every since the campaign.

Mccains faith did come up, but it was wholly a boring issue. On the other hand Sara Palins church did make the MSN quite a few times as they desparately tried to even the Rev Wright deal out by claiming Palins pastor was a looney toon as well. Palin was the REP scapegoat, worked to a T.

As a matter of fact, Mccains citizenship certainly came up big time. To the point Mccain produced his original docs and had congress approve(not a legal approval, but an approval non-the-less) his questionable eligibility to run for POTUS. In light of this, Obama supporters should not be so surprised by the same expectations of Obama.


I am sorry but Obama casts no shadows, there is nothing behind him. It is all sealed up under lock and key. And this is one of the biggest reasons to question him.

As I stated in the thread I started here, it's not obama's religion per se, it's the fact that he and his handlers lied about it in order to win the election.

And, of course, there's the related question of since obama's handlers are now admitting the religious roots lie, will they also be coming clean on the citizenship lie?

And to head off the "other presidents lied" argument, why are so many members willing to accept being lied to by their elected and appointed officials???

[edit on 6/8/2009 by centurion1211]

I still can't believe that no one has posted this yet....

reply to post by Eight

This can be seen also as trying to mend fences. What is wrong in saying, I'm sorry, or It's my fault? The old way of being arrogant has gotten us only further resentment.

It was not his fault. It was not every American's fault. It WAS America's fault that millions of oppressed Muslims are now relatively free and so how about rubbing that in their noses? And while he's at it, why not explain why he is increasing the US deployment in another Muslim country? But no, only the false modesty of a guy who knows he made no commitment and takes no real responsibility. He further insults the Muslim world by not having his wife with him during the apology tour. Why? Because she don't play that burka covered second-class citizen crap. Did he address women's rights in the Muslim world? Hell no! But she showed up later in France to shop. How convenient! I can’t blame him or her though, those Islamic countries are nasty. I wouldn't go myself let alone take my wife.

America has always played nice. That is why the USS Stark was hit, The enemy fighters didn't respond to IFF and SOP was not followed, and you know the rest of the story. If we wasn't civil we would have shot them right out of the sky without the slightest compunction.

You said it: "America has always played nice." No need to apologize.

How so?

He would be further inflaming fundamentalists by flaunting his apostasy.

Irrelevant, the Bible says "Thou shall not kill" but that does and didn't stop our "Christian" leaders from going to war. If he is a Muslim I don't see how his faith will stop him. Have you forgotten, based on his orders,the captain of that ship is alive and the pirates are dead?

Hooray he manned up and ordered the deaths of Muslim teenagers and rightly so. Let's advertise that on the apology tour. That's an act he participated in but he was very quiet about it. Why? They were Muslims, shhhhhhh! And what do the former Christian leaders have to do with this Obama discussion?

BO's actions are counter to reason. North Korea is testing missiles, we're cutting back on missile defense. We could throw in Ahmedenejad for good measure but the Koreans are enough for the argument. His actions are not Christian or Muslim, they're simply naive or blatantly sinister.

This what Christianity does to those who pray to another God. When Moses came down from Mount Sinai after receiving the Ten Commandments he saw the people of Israel had created a golden calf. God saw this as a rejection of him so he became angry and wanted to kill all the people of Israel. When Moses came down, Moses too became very angry. So He ordered the Levites to go through the people and kill those who rejected God by prying to another God. About 3'000 of the people died on that day.

Sorry friend but even this atheist knows you just condemned Old Testament Jews and not Christians. But Christians can be deplorable too. Don’t get me started on them, that’s for another thread. We're talking about Muslims that will carry through on modern day death threats. Have you heard of Ayaan Hirsi Ali or Salman Rushdie? Of course you have. They're still alive but only because they are living in the largely Christian west. Say what you will for the Christians, they are slightly more welcoming. How many Saudi Arabians are Christian? Zero.

Ok,I can see that. But I know a few people that was of the Muslim faith then reverted back and they are still walking around to this very day. I think there is more to this that you or I can comprehend and with our ignorance of the religion we can only over simplify issues pertaining to it.

Those people you know are not walking around a Muslim nation. And they're not advertising their apostasy as president of the United States. I am capable of comprehending. I don't need to know all their fables, I know enough. How many fleas were on the horse of their child molester prophet when he flew to their paradise? I don't know that. What I do know is Islamic fundamentalists hate the western lifestyle and they hate moderate Muslims posing as progressive hand-holding socialists. If you insist on being hated, don't show yourself or your country as vulnerable. There is nothing complicated regarding religion. Myths are myths, whatever name you attach to them.

Originally posted by centurion1211
As I stated in the thread I started here, it's not obama's religion per se, it's the fact that he and his handlers lied about it in order to win the election.

And, of course, there's the related question of since obama's handlers are now admitting the religious roots lie, will they also be coming clean on the citizenship lie?

And to head off the "other presidents lied" argument, why are so many members willing to accept being lied to by their elected and appointed officials???

[edit on 6/8/2009 by centurion1211]

Obama is only Muslim because his father was Muslim. Islamic law states that the religion of the father is passed to the son . That’s fine but what if the son wants to be a Christian and follow that path? Should he be forced to accept a faith he doesn’t want. In America a person has the freedom to choose a faith or not believe in any faith at all.

Obama also has African roots but it is a mistake to conflate his African identity with his Muslim heritage. He is half African by birth and Africans can understandably identify with him. In Islam, however, there is no such thing as a half Muslim. Like all monotheistic religions, Islam is an exclusive faith.

Originally posted by bronwyn82
I still can't believe that no one has posted this yet....

There is a reason for this not being posted,it means nothing. It's a misunderstanding of what he was saying and he corrected it. You can make any sound bite portray what you want it to because you are not listening to the whole conversation. At the end before it was clipped he said "the issue of him being a Muslim".

For example,if I was engaged in a conversation that went like so:

"I'm an atheist and my Christian faith comes up from time to to time but I don't see my belief in God as an issue because I'm an atheist."

Now if the above conversation was a sound bite and I was corrected after I used the word God it is easy to for anybody to say that I was A Christian and I lied about being an atheist.

I know this interview was more that 18 seconds long so where is the rest of the dialog so is can be judged fairly?

Originally posted by Hemisphere
It was not his fault. It was not every American's fault. It WAS America's fault that millions of oppressed Muslims are now relatively free and so how about rubbing that in their noses?

You and others can defend America against global denunciation, but like it or not, anti Americanism is the prevailing attitude around the world today. Our arrogance IMO is the root cause of the world's and particularly Europe's obsession with hating America. Power, wealth, and liberty use to be the words most frequently associated with American society, but lately those word have now become violence, power, and inequalities.

He further insults the Muslim world by not having his wife with him during the apology tour. Why? Because she don't play that burka covered second-class citizen crap. Did he address women's rights in the Muslim world? Hell no! But she showed up later in France to shop. How convenient! I can’t blame him or her though, those Islamic countries are nasty. I wouldn't go myself let alone take my wife.

There is no story here, neither is there any insult. How can they be insulted when they don't even respect and see their own women as equals? The first lady of Iran demanded an apology from president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad because he questioned her academic qualifications and said women will win greater influence if her husband is elected.

He would be further inflaming fundamentalists by flaunting his apostasy.

This is only an issue because we are making it one and as i said before,he is only a Muslim because his father is one.

Hooray he manned up and ordered the deaths of Muslim teenagers and rightly so. Let's advertise that on the apology tour. That's an act he participated in but he was very quiet about it. Why? They were Muslims, shhhhhhh! And what do the former Christian leaders have to do with this Obama discussion?

I was showing you that Christianity is not a perfect religion either. it has laws in it that called for the deaths of people who broke those laws. So don't act like only Islam has laws that puts people to death.

But you have proved my point that people are myopic when it comes to Christianity.

BO's actions are counter to reason. North Korea is testing missiles, we're cutting back on missile defense.

Read your history,we have been cutting back for decades.

To argue that developing nuclear weapons is a necessary component of American defense is flawed. You're using Pyongyang's nuclear test to question the feasibility of a nuclear weapon-free world. But you and other proponents of this notion are missing the point which is, a world full of nuclear weapons hasn't deterred North Korea either.

Sorry friend but even this atheist knows you just condemned Old Testament Jews and not Christians.

So are you saying that Christians don't read the Bible? Was it Jews that conducted the Salem Witch Hunts? No,I condemned the right ones.

But Christians can be deplorable too. Don’t get me started on them, that’s for another thread.

No,make that two threads. I knew there was something you and I had in common

We're talking about Muslims that will carry through on modern day death threats. Have you heard of Ayaan Hirsi Ali or Salman Rushdie? Of course you have. They're still alive but only because they are living in the largely Christian west. Say what you will for the Christians, they are slightly more welcoming. How many Saudi Arabians are Christian? Zero.

I disagree.Scroll down to "churches".

en.wikipedia.org...

Those people you know are not walking around a Muslim nation. And they're not advertising their apostasy as president of the United States.

Are you seeing Obama as being a Muslim because he said he was or just because he was born into it? If he was born into it but does not claim it i don't see how this applies. This is a country of choice,is it not?

I am capable of comprehending. I don't need to know all their fables, I know enough. How many fleas were on the horse of their child molester prophet when he flew to their paradise? I don't know that.

You shouldn't make statements that are inclusive. And to be honest you're wrong, you me and a multitude of others don't know nearly enough to intelligently discuss this religion because it is a very complicated religion with nuances that we can't comprehend.

There is nothing complicated regarding religion. Myths are myths, whatever name you attach to them

Oh really,go to Saudi Arabia or better yet, go to Bahrain with your simplified view of all religions. It will be a learning experience I'll say that.

Originally posted by Eight

There is a reason for this not being posted,it means nothing. It's a misunderstanding of what he was saying and he corrected it.

I think the problem most people have with this video is that they can't imagine ever making the same "mistake" obama did. There's no way they would "accidentally" say they were a different religion than they really are.

Because of that, it makes it appear that under the pressure of the campaign and the interview (and without his teleprompter), obama simply forgot his coaching and memorized lines and accidentally told the truth.

[edit on 6/9/2009 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by Eight
Obama is only Muslim because his father was Muslim.

You sure about that? Obama went out of his way to learn the Muslim Call To Prayer. Learn it ... practice it .... love it. ('it's the most beautiful sound on earth" - his own words)

As I said before - no one knows what this guys real religion is.
He's pandered to every group and claimed everything so often .. no one knows.

Originally posted by centurion1211
There's no no way they would "accidentally" say they were a different religion than they really are.

Yep .. I wouldn't sit there in an interview and say "my Jedi faith" or something like that.

It was a freudian slip on Obama's part.