UN: Israeli buffer zone eats up 30 percent of Gaza's arable land

Israel is NO Friend to America or the World..!!

reply to post by drwizardphd


drwizard, your posts are some of the most deceitful, half-truths that I've ever seen on ATS.

No one said a damned thing about killing these GAZANS but you.

You reach around, pull out a charge like this out of your nether region, your true source of information, and misleadingly apply YOUR falsification to someone else.

Won't fly here.

And you'd be surprised how many people know stupidity when they see it.

After all, stupidity is stupidity.

What?

Are you Gazan?

reply to post by dooper


As i pointed out hamas is responsible for this mess but you cant generalize and say everyone that lives there is. They have people that just want to live there lives without the governments dragging them into something they want to have no part of. The Palestinian government has been hijacked by radicals and im sure they have a problem with hamas the only problem is who distributes there food who has all the guns and in reality they have little they can do if they wish to survive.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia


I wasn't going to post it because there's already a few israel-centric posts on the front page of breaking alternative, but I just had to.

And i'm not the biggest fan of csmonitor so a direct link to IDF is in the additional news links confirming the story.

It just keeps getting worse and worse and worse.
These people were already starving, many resorted to eating grass, doctors were assassinated during the gaza poundage and now farmers are too scared to.... farm.

This is just like keeping a bunch of house flies in a jar, not killing them, but just starving them to death.

Gaza is a concentration camp

This HAS to stop!!

www.csmonitor.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

yes this has to stop. the Israeli's are not at fault here. Regardless of what you and others might think If it comes to which side holds the high ground an who to support then we need I'll take Israel. You want to give statehood to a population that's only distinction is to have been kicked out of half the countries in the ME and who will become nothing more that a terrorist state in an already unstable region. IMO we should be doing everything possible to help Israel because we are going to need them very soon. I think it shameful that we Americans would require Israel to do what we will not, even with the full knowledge that when israel takes out the Iranian n facilities Isreal will be involved in a major war with most of the middle east. This is suppose to be our watch, shame on all of us.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by drwizardphd

 

drwizard, your posts are some of the most deceitful, half-truths that I've ever seen on ATS.

No one said a damned thing about killing these GAZANS but you.

You reach around, pull out a charge like this out of your nether region, your true source of information, and misleadingly apply YOUR falsification to someone else.

Ok, I guess I just made up this quote then:

Originally posted by dooper
Egypt said "no" because the truth is, these are some of the dumbest, most contentious people on earth. Correction. Not "some" of the dumbest, most contentious people on earth, but THE dumbest, most contentious people on earth.

Yeah, I'm being deceitful. It seems pretty obvious to me that you have a problem with sweeping generalizations.

And surely you don't deny that Israel is causing death and destruction for the Palestinian people? If you defend Israel's actions, you are promoting the killing of the Palestinians. If you do not believe Israel is killing the Palestinians, perhaps it is YOU who needs to learn some history.

reply to post by dragonridr


Dragon, please stop it man
People saying A deserve B because of C
and me saying well D also has C so does D deserve the same as A too
Does NOT make my response all about C

I am using current events as a medium for an analogy
So If I give comparisons of america, doesn't make it america bashing
please stop the nonsense

[edit on 1-6-2009 by ModernAcademia]

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by dragonridr

 

dragon, what, exactly would you call a small region that has had its own cultural identity for decades, one that not even enemies want anything to do with?

It isn't their leadership. It's their mindset. They are miserable, they want everyone around them miserable, and they take every opportunity to SPREAD that misery.

They bitch about not having clean water. Sanitation and sewage systems. Lack of schools. Shortages of food. Insufficient medical care and medicines.

They receive millions of dollars from outside sources.

What do they buy?

That's right. AK's, ammo, rocket building material, RPG's, grenades, explosives, timers, and an entire plethora of destructive devices.

No.

Let's just call them for what they are.

Stupid.

Take out the paragraph starting "They bitch..." and you could be talking about Israel.
Except Israel receives BILLIONS from US not millions.
The reason Palestinians are receiving aid is because otherwise they would die. The restrictions on imports for parts for industry and on exports of produce, the restrictions on fuel and medicines has weakened their economy and their people.
Why is Israel receiving billions from the US taxpayers? God only knows.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon


Since that IS the case, you must keep all away from the wall to maintain security.

In the words of late President Reagan

"Tear down this wall!"


and JFK

"Ich bin ein Berliner" "I am a Berliner"

It's been my experience on these type of threads that there is no point in bringing logic or reason into these discussions as people have their sides and don't want to see any other point of view.

Both sides are guilty of War Crimes. Israel did alot more to intentionally kill civillians and the numbers speak for themself. How people think a 1-250 kill ratio is acceptable response when most of those killed were women and children.

When I see posts like the one from Dooper it makes me sick and I am ashamed to call myself a human.

It takes a great person to forgive, it takes a weak person to hurt.

Deez

reply to post by drwizardphd

The thread is about Gazans.

You're spreading your manure over the field, the yard, the barn, and the road.

I wasn't generalizing. I was speaking specifically about Gazans, and if you need a remedial reading comprehension course, that's your fault.

No one wants the Gazans. They don't want the land, and they don't want the people. I think that's fairly specific.

They are a pox on the region!

Nothing but trouble, nothing but a source of contention, and nothing but a source of mindless violence.

Sorry, no cigar. I DON'T have sympathy for them.

Stupidity is not a virtue.

At least where I come from.

reply to post by DEEZNUTZ


Well excuse me for making you feel bad. Here's the thing, and this lesson should be simple enough for even you.

Two kids playing, one thirteen, the other eight.

The eight year-old keeps throwing rocks and hitting the thirteen year-old.

The thirteen year old warns him time and again to stop.

The eight year old is having fun, and continues hitting the larger, older boy with rocks.

The thirteen year-old says, "one more rock, and I'm going to kick your ass."

The eight year old ignores that warning, throws another rock and hits the thirteen year old.

Who whips the younger's ass. And not just a punch or two, He is pissed, he feels justified, and he literally smacks the younger kid all over every part of his body.

Now.

You would suggest that the thirteen year old had zero justification to punish his tormentor.

You would suggest that he only use equal levels of punishment.

Doesn't work that way.

Gazan begged for a counter attack, and they got one.

Once an ass-whipping starts, there's no time out.

Punish them, and they'll leave you alone for a while.

[edit on 2-6-2009 by dooper]

reply to post by dooper


Spew you're hate for the Palestinians all you want. But is that seriously your argument? Ya they were just begging to be murdered and starved to death by a regime that uses genocide against them to commit genocide against another. Great sound logic on Israel's side. They've never wanted peace and want the death of all the Palestinians so Israel can have land that's not even theirs. It was stolen from others and given to them.

reply to post by DEEZNUTZ


The land was not stolen, and only came into Israeli possession after the coalition of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria gathered to wipe out Israel in 1967.

This area known as Gaza was Egyptian, and the area known as the West Bank was Jordanian.

Both territories were lost to Israel in the war.

If Jordan and Egypt, and even Syria, wouldn't have set out to destroy Israel, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

West Bank'ers are not Palestinians. They're former Jordanians. They can always go to their mother country.

Gazans were Egyptian owned territory. Oddly, Egypt didn't want Gaza back and in fact, has sealed off their border with Gaza.

No one wants Gaza. Not Israel, not Egypt - no one.

So if you'll first get your facts right, you don't end up looking like you don't know what in hell you're talking about.

reply to post by Goathief


I'll say it again, 25000 die every day in this world from malnutrition, and not a single Gazan has died, not one.

I'm waiting for proof of fatalities from starvation, not from bombing, thus far zip.

There is also the fact that it was the closure of the Israeli border that caused this situation, why don't the Egyptians just pick up the slack and ship food in that way? No one ever seems to ask that question.

Originally posted by DEEZNUTZ
reply to post by dooper

 

Spew you're hate for the Palestinians all you want. But is that seriously your argument? Ya they were just begging to be murdered and starved to death by a regime that uses genocide against them to commit genocide against another. Great sound logic on Israel's side. They've never wanted peace and want the death of all the Palestinians so Israel can have land that's not even theirs. It was stolen from others and given to them.

Here we go again someone who doesn't understand history sorta irks me when people try to rewrite history.

The term Palestinian was created by Yasser Arafat so technically there is no such group. the Palestinians in this case meaning the west bank and gaza were originally part of the territories of Egypt and Jordan. When they attacked Israel they took this land though in hind site i bet they wished they hadn't. So in comes Yasser Arafat and his fahta. His party had already In the late 1960s and early 1970s, Fatah faced off with Jordan in a brief civil war. Forced out of Jordan and into Lebanon he was homeless. So now he realizes he can use the west bank and gaza to his advantage and thus have somewhere to go.He gives them a national identity he gives them a goal (basically get Israel out of Jerusalem) and creates the first resemblance this area had of a government .His party later looses control of the area but thats another story.

Now bottom line is Palestinians dont really exist as an identity Arafat created this from the philistines of the bible so it would give legitimacy to his cause.But it also gives you a clue of his goal the philistines were from Crete and the Aegean islands crossed the Mediterranean and repeatedly attacked Egypt during the later Nineteenth Dynasty. Though they were eventually repulsed by Ramesses III, he finally resettled them, according to the theory, to rebuild the coastal towns in Canaan.The reason Yasser Arafat chose this identity is obvious if you read the bible they were bitter enemies of the jews.

Now the philistines didn't fair well for that matter neither did the jews because in came Persia destroyed the philistine completely to The point that when the romans take over the area there is no one living there and the area is an inhospitable desert according roman historians though they attempt to change this but fail. What does this mean there is no Palestinian people and this conflict is about land your right but not in gaza or the west bank.This conflict is to remove the Jews and Christians from Jerusalem or more accurately thats why it started but i think this attitude is slowly changing for some. Now how all this war and destruction can be created over a city that no one would want if it wasn't for its religious significance sometimes amazes me. But dont get confused by propaganda look at history the answers are always there if you dig far enough.

lol at everyone only talking about history after 1960
kinda selective no?

and dooper saying that Israel owned the land is only talking about after the 6 day war. I'm sorry but stealing land after winning a war doesn't make it yours.

And let's not forget, the only reason why israelis are staying there is not for the reasons some say here.

It's because they think they have biblical rights to stay there.

reply to post by Retseh


Hello? 12 year olds are stunted so much from starvation they have the same physique as 8 year olds. If that has happened then it's a given that some children, especially infants and babies, would have died from malnutrition or an illness brought on or amplified by it.

Are you really that dumb?

EDIT to add: The Rafah Border Crossing (the only way into Egypt from Gaza) is basically under IDF lockdown, also Egypt is frightened of angering Israel who are constantly flexing it's muscles in the background. When the boarder was blown open in 2008 to allow Gazans escape from the bombing and get supplies (Egypt made no attempt to stop them), Israel threatened to completely cut off everything in Gaza (Electricity, water, aid, etc.) in an attempt to collectively punish the people there. What do you expect the average Gazan to do with their lives since they have been confined in what is effectively a giant concentration camp?

[edit on 2-6-2009 by Goathief]

Originally posted by Retseh
reply to post by Goathief

 

I'll say it again, 25000 die every day in this world from malnutrition, and not a single Gazan has died, not one.

I'm waiting for proof of fatalities from starvation, not from bombing, thus far zip.

There is also the fact that it was the closure of the Israeli border that caused this situation, why don't the Egyptians just pick up the slack and ship food in that way? No one ever seems to ask that question.

Your right there is casses of malnutrition but this is caused mostly because there diet isnt as varied as it need to be and they are rationed by hammas.
they receive international aid which prevent starvation. If we gave this aid to dar fur it would have saved 70000 people now they are starving look at the people there compare them to Palestinians. This is a lie created by ham mas to develop sympathy from the UN. It helps them get that 7.9 billion dollar aid package that the UN promised.But of course ham mas will take this money they will spend it on everything but building up there economy they should have learned a lesson from how the fahta party lost power but im afraid they wont. The problem the Palestinians have is his there surrounded by countries who don't want to deal with them there government really doesn't care about them and they have no recourse at all.Its really a sad situation with no easy fix.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
lol at everyone only talking about history after 1960
kinda selective no?

and dooper saying that Israel owned the land is only talking about after the 6 day war. I'm sorry but stealing land after winning a war doesn't make it yours.

And let's not forget, the only reason why israelis are staying there is not for the reasons some say here.

It's because they think they have biblical rights to stay there.

Oh so your problem is you don't think the Jews have a claim to the area? Or is your problem with the statement in the bible giving the land to the jews?

Either way its immaterial there has been Jews in this area for at least 3000 years id say that gives them some rights don't try to twist history again i can go back to Egyptian records records and records from Persia which clearly shows they had a presence there if the bible is accurate or not really doesn't mater does it. The thing i find the funniest is most of the people we call Palestinians were from Jordan and in fact were not originally even Muslim this conversion comes later after the fall of Persia.

[edit on 6/2/09 by dragonridr]

Originally posted by dragonridr
Oh so your problem is you don't think the Jews have a claim to the area? Or is your problem with the statement in the bible giving the land to the jews?

Honestly, if that were the only issue I wouldnt even be in this thread
if it was just petty fights because of territory, i'd be okay with that

What I am against is oppression, white phosphorus, robot snipers on the gaza wall, imprisoning west bankers and after they get released having them end up in gaza as if it's a jail. I'm against stopping medical supplies, shooting doctors, bombing the hell out of gaza and calling it a response.