So UK, who will you be voting for on june 4th?

reply to post by stumason


That is interesting StuMason, I admit I haven't heard of them - I live out in the stix and am a proud Bauernluemmel. I shall look into their information.

Thanks

I was one those that bought into the 'Things Can Only Get Better' dream that was Blair.
After Thatcher and Major I genuinely believed that was the start of something so good for the UK.
The hair's on my whole body stood on end watching Blair go to Bucky Pally to be asked to form a government.
The dawn of a new age.
Cool Britannia.
We had the world at our feet.

12 years later and I feel so cheated.

Blair should be beheaded and his head placed on a spike and sent around the whole of the UK for all to see and take note of what happens to traitors and deceivers!

Brown is inept and out of his depth.

That there needs to be a change is undeniable.

But is Cameron a viable alternative?

Most definately not.
He is as much a career politician as Brown and his cohorts.
His policies reek of popularism and have little or no substance whatsoever.

We have so few people's politicians with the cares and concerns of their constituents being their primary concern.
(Vince Cable en.wikipedia.org... & Frank Field en.wikipedia.org...(politician) are two notable exceptions).
My local MP is one of the few New Labour MP's whose integrity remains intact.
Unfortunately I suspect he will pay the price for being aligned to New Labour.

Party politics has failed us.
The notion that an MP should obey the Party Line on everything is outdated and has clearly failed us.
The primary concern of an MP should be his constituents and his country, not his party.

Parliament is full of greedy, self-serving egotists whose only concerns are personal advancement and finacial gain.
They are far too removed from the everyday people of this country and their lives and concerns and what WE want.

I know I am in danger of repeating what I have stated in other threads, but, we need a new Cromwell, (minus his religious bigotry though!).

Oliver Cromwell's Speech on the Dissolution of the Long Parliament
Given to the House of Commons
20 April 1653

"It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your
contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and
enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell
your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.
Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have
no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter'd your conscience
for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?
Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil'd this sacred place, and turn'd the Lord's temple into a den
of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the
whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress'd, are yourselves gone!
So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors. In the name of God, go!"

en.wikipedia.org...

I personally would love to see the vast majority of MP's and MEP's removed from office at the earliest opportunity, party alignment to be abolished and all elected officials accountable only to their constituents.

I would also like to see the introduction of more referendum's allowing the people themselves to determine important issues.

As for the June elections?
Both Labour and Conservative are definate no's. It would be a vote for the continuation of the current situation and that is totally unacceptable.
Lib Dem's? Too wishy washy for my liking.
Green Party? No, but I do hope they gain some support just to keep green issues high profile and in the public eye.
UKIP? I like some of it but unfortunately I feel it is merely a branch of the Tory party.

BNP? Probably. But only as a protest vote and to stir things up. I agree with some of their policies and they will stimulate debate on immigration and be a counter point to the more PC driven parties.
Would I ever want them to form a government? Not a chance in hell.

One last point.
Not voting is as good as voting for a continuation of the self-same system and people that have put us in this mess in the first place.
Turnouts in General Elections are dwindling.
www.psr.keele.ac.uk...
This shows an increase in apathy and dis-satisfaction.
I suspect this is a result of the dumbing down of society, the disgust people have for the current system and those that get elected, resignation to their lot, general acceptance of the status quo and a belief that their vote doesn't really count and can not affect things.

Turnout for EU elections are even lower, quite significantly so.
www.ukpolitical.info...

That so few people vote on something that has such a massive, direct impact in our lives is inexcusable in this day and age.

[edit on 17/5/09 by Freeborn]

reply to post by Freeborn


Well put Freeborn, you have provided a statement of the current situation that many many people would agree with. As you say, to run the roller-coaster that was the Thatcher era, the dive that constituted the Major period and then the almost unbelievable new age that Blair represented, so full of hope and pride in the future of our Nation, then to see the betrayal of the people, the betrayal of Britain, the betrayal of the promise.

Where is the Once and Future King to lead us from our despair and heal the nation? One may well ask.

We all understand the rigours of real life, it will never be "rosey" for all time but we cannot deny the cankers that pervade our society or the dishonourable and morally bankrupt attitudes shown by our politicians.

I borrow a song from the Welsh, when we were bitter enemies. In this day and age we might look to their courage and assume a song for all Britons:

All ye Britons, march to glory,
Victory is hov'ring o'er ye,
Bright-eyed freedom stands before ye,
Hear ye not her call?
At your sloth she seems to wonder;
Rend the sluggish bonds asunder,
Let the war-cry's deaf'ning thunder
Every foe appall.
Echoes loudly waking,
Hill and valley shaking;
'Till the sound spreads wide around,
The traitor's courage breaking;
Your foes on every side assailing,
Forward press with heart unfailing,
'Till invaders learn with quailing,
Briton ne'er can yield!

reply to post by stumason


That's interesting, I never heard of the English Democrats before either.
At least it's a viable option.
Up till now I was left with only the BNP as an option.
A party who seems to actually support the idea of a return to an English England.
Getting rid of absurd political correctness was top of the attraction.

Zero expenses for a second home the other.

I do get vibes of lynch mobs and weekly cross burnings about them though.

reply to post by stumason


Whislt I agree that England needs greater representation in Westminster and we should take a lot more pride in our English heritage, but I also believe that it should be within a strong British Union.
What format that should take is open to discussion.

Like most people it seems on here, I do like their stance on the whole PC issue.

reply to post by SugarCube


Well said my friend.
At times such as this we must seek inspiration from anywhere.
I also think it is important that whilst we recognise and pride ourselves in our own unique and separate national identities I also think we should remain steadfast in our Union and celebrate that which unites us rather than that which divides us.

Together, united, we the people of this ancient and mighty land have a strength and resolve unmatched.
We are approaching the brink.
We just need the spark to light the flame.

The Once And Future King?
Indeed.
Cometh the hour, cometh the man?

I sincerely hope so.

reply to post by Freeborn


The English Democrats want to keep the Union, but they want a fairer devolution model that doesn't penalise England the expense of the other nations. This is why they are actually close to Plaid Cymru and the SNP (the SNP know that Scotland is unlikely to ever support full independence).

What really appeals to me is the fact they hold the ancient English ideals of personal freedom and the rights of individuals as a core value, steering away from the oppressive nanny state that seeks to lecture us about every aspect of our lives.

Not labour,conservative or liberal thats for sure.

As for the scottish independence remark,no we wont support a fully fledged independent scotland *yet*...but given time i think we could build an economic infrastructure in which we could support ourselves without the need or backing of England.2020 seems like a good year.

[edit on 17-5-2009 by Solomons]

Originally posted by AGENT_T
I do get vibes of lynch mobs and weekly cross burnings about them though.

Why is that? They go to great lengths to distance themselves from the BNP "nationalist" image that the media like to drum up against many of the smaller parties.

This herculean admirer of political affairs is contemplating on Conservative or UKIP. The European Union has disappointed me, I am still waiting for my democratic constitutional reforms to the Parliament and Commission - which is not going to happen.

Nigel and boys are entertaining to watch though, may be UKIP. English Democrats are sensible, articulate and diplomatic on the European question - still not won over yet. Libertarian party is so new that I believe no candidate is being fielded, the Jury Team is a pathetic, fatuous and a pointless "x-factor style" party. That's my current status on the European election.

So, the arduous task of making my local decision is made more difficult because the Conservative led Kent County Council have a habit of digging up roads on numerous occasions. But, I am certainly not allowing the Liberal Democrats to take control, I fear my money will be wasted on pointless projects. Plus, I've seen uneducated children with better numeration skills than the Labour party - do not want my council bankrupt.

Greens? dear god no. Seriously, substituting my wishes for the well-being of a tree angers me. BNP, oh pleeease. We may not be equal on this Earth, but I have no problem with "the others."

I will most likely vote for the independent on local matters, could prove to be a useful idiot. Either Tories or UKIP for the European elections.



[edit on 17-5-2009 by infinite]

Since stating this thread, and i'm glad i did, even if purely for the information and insight i have gained, i have been swayed towards voting for an indedpendant party. After discussing the issue with another member, i was shocked to hear how many actually bothered to turn out for the last lot of elections, in his local council only something like 36% of electorates bothered to vote. With this in mind, is it not possible that if the
64% who had not voted, had instead voted for the same independant party, they would have won the seat. If this happened in each county, would that not make the diffrence we want to see, if only to get a party in that will make that change.

I looked into the link Stumason kindly provided for for the English democrats who i also have never heard of, whilst i agree with some of the points they have raised, i am slightly wary and am wondering if they are a re-badged BNP, Stu...could you put my mind at ease on this?

As someone else told me, we would all need to vote for the same independant party for it to be counted and to make that change...but with so many unsure or not voting...this is unlikely to happen.


Freeborn....i also would like to see a modern day cromwell


[edit on 17-5-2009 by MCoG1980]

If I where British I would vote for the BNP, because of their anti-EU stance. I see ever increasingly the EU overstepping it's bounds and attacking the sovereignty of independent Nations.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
If I where British I would vote for the BNP, because of their anti-EU stance. I see ever increasingly the EU overstepping it's bounds and attacking the sovereignty of independent Nations.

Thats not a good enough reason to vote BNP, they are racist, and unless you agree with their other ideals , which i hope most do not, you should not consider giving them your vote. They're are other parties who want out of the EU not just the BNP.

reply to post by MCoG1980


They used to be a racist party but they say they have changed there beliefs. i agree with many of there veiws but thats not one however if they say they have changed there views dont they deserve the right to be given a chance instead of the past limiting them.

may i ask who you will be voting for ?

Originally posted by MCoG1980

As someone else told me, we would all need to vote for the same independant party for it to be counted and to make that change...but with so many unsure or not voting...this is unlikely to happen.

[edit on 17-5-2009 by MCoG1980]

Why?
That is the whole point, abolish party allegiance and have MP's / MEP's vote as they wish, with their constituents wishes and well being being the primary consideration, on each individual Bill / Law / debate or vote etc without having to follow party line irrelevant of conviction.

I, as do most people I know, agree with some Labour policies, some Tory, some Green, some BNP etc...to think one particular party has all the answers is absurd and that model has quite blatantly failed us.

reply to post by thecrow001


I don't belive the BNP are no longer racist, that i think is something they will say to gain votes this time round. My descision is not yet descided, i wish to vote for an independant party but still desciding. I am still listening to all comments here.

Originally posted by Freeborn

Why?
That is the whole point, abolish party allegiance and have MP's / MEP's vote as they wish, with their constituents wishes and well being being the primary consideration, on each individual Bill / Law / debate or vote etc without having to follow party line irrelevant of conviction.


I, as do most people I know, agree with some Labour policies, some Tory, some Green, some BNP etc...to think one particular party has all the answers is absurd and that model has quite blatantly failed us.

I see what you are saying, and i totally agree with you that one party does not have all the answers. They don't have a ballot box though that says 'a bit of each' Going on this thread and conversation elsewhere, i just don't think you will see an independant party in parliament unless it is a landslide for one particular independant party. It looks as though it will only ever be tory or labour.



[edit on 17-5-2009 by MCoG1980]

reply to post by MCoG1980


Which is why we need an overhaul of the whole electoral and parliamentary systems and procedures.

Infinite made a very good arguement in another thread here on ATS for the abolition of universal suffrage.
That I disagreed with him is irrelevant.
We need open discourse to stimulate interest and increase awareness.

Party politics has failed us.
The election of an 'independant' party will only result in that party becoming another Labour Or Conservative and would help maintain the current status quo which is proving so detrimental to the well being of this country.

Only truly independant MP's / MEP's who are unaligned to any party manifesto and who are committed to the interests of their constituents.

In addition, I think the use of more referendum's would provide a more democratic answer to some of the more important issues.
It is intereting that the only people who seem to disagree with the referendum's are those involved in the current party system and thus have vested interests in maintaining the current system and their ride on the gravy train.

They're gettting a vote of no confidence from me. (as usual)I don't trust any of them, we don't need any of them, and they can all get tee hell. I've never trusted the goverments, and i can honestly say i don't think I ever will. We do not need them, and the sooner we drop the whole concept, the better.

reply to post by Freeborn


Man, you are not kidding, the whole system is failing us .....very badly. This morning i turned on the news and was absolutely horrified yet again at social services. We have all heard how they failed baby P amongst other children. In Barry, Wales they put a 19 year old in the care of foster workers who had 2 small children. The 19 year old has been found to have sexually abused very young these children. The most sickening and disgraceful part of this, aprat from the actual suffering of those poor innocent children, was the fact the social services knew he had a history of this before placing him with the family. Something MUST be done, this CANNOT be ALLOWED to continue.