Unseen Footage- Riot police attack peaceful protesters at G20

No problem mate...

Sometimes it's easy to confuse anger with hate and passion with ignorance.

Nice to share these ideas though

From what I could see, the protestors weren't peaceful. Aside from taunting the police, they also pushed at them in several instances. That is battery. That is all the provocation needed for the police to start fighting back.

You have to understand that the police in a crowd are a minority, outnumbered 10 to 1 or more. They are readily identified by their uniforms. They're highly vulnerable, *feel* vulnerable, and likely to be afraid. This is an explosive situation. Add to the mix a howling, angry, insulting mob, and you're likely to have that explosion.

Ideally the police would treat everyone with respect, even those insulting them. They'd use a minimum of force at all times, only enough to stop the threat and, if necessary, arrest the offender. But ideally there'd be peace and an end to world hunger.

This is not an ideal world. The police are human. They can be pushed beyond the limits of their training. Once that happens, they will become dangerous. People will be hurt. It's not supposed to happen. The police who act out of line are subject to punishment, if their illegal acts can be documented. However, they're all human. Anyone can be pushed too far.

Personally, I think it's remarkable that you can *ever* walk up to somone wearing body armor, a helmet, carrying a shield, baton, pepper spray, firearms, etc., and insult them to their face, fully expecting to survive the experience unscathed. You wouldn't do that to someone you met on the streets, who wasn't a policeman. You'd probably follow their directions without comment. But somehow the police are supposed to be above human feelings? Not likely.

I'm no starry-eyed idealist. I know all about police brutality. I live in Chicago. I've experienced that brutality first-hand. I also was a legal secretary for a law firm specializing in police misconduct. Trust me, I know our police aren't angels.

They're humans. Push them too hard, and they'll hurt you. It's that simple. It's not right; it's not fair; it's not legal. But it's how it works.

Originally posted by chiron613
From what I could see, the protestors weren't peaceful. Aside from taunting the police, they also pushed at them in several instances. That is battery. That is all the provocation needed for the police to start fighting back.

It's called protesting for a reason. The police acted like yobs, you obviously weren't there on the day.

Next...

i was there on the day and this is what i saw with my own eyes. the police instigated, the protestors fought in self defense

From what I could see, the police weren't peaceful. Aside from taunting the protestors, they also pushed at them in several instances. That is battery. That is all the provocation needed for the protestors to start fighting back.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
dammit
they screamed this is not a riot
still the cops kept pushin and hitting

disgusted
star and flagged!

this needs to be spreaded as much as possible

I know people wont like my views on this but I don't think was that peaceful of a group. I'm not saying the police acted innocent but just because I yell I'm being peaceful while I push back and forth with you doesn't make it less my fault also.

The group of people was holding their hands up to say look we aren't doing anything as they pushed over and over again with their bodies into the police. What would you do if you were in the police shoes at that point?

If this was truly peaceful they would have all been doing a sit in and just chilling on the ground. Riots broke out through out the whole day and people were injured on each side.

The sad part for me is how people are drawing so many lines to try and distinguish groups to pass hate at. In the end its just people on either side.

reply to post by whoshotJR


You have no idea, many times we tried sitting down but the police kept pushing forwards. If you were sitting you got trampled.

I know people wont like my views on this but I don't think was that peaceful of a group. I'm not saying the police acted innocent but just because I yell I'm being peaceful while I push back and forth with you doesn't make it less my fault also.

go to youtube and search your 10 pheonix 01 he has videos when we were all sitting down like you say, shortly after that the police rushed us and WALKED over the people sitting down. you can justify it all you want but i know what i saw not being rude just saying

it was either defend yourself by pushing back or get hit for no reason

what a shame that none of the posibly corrupt media firms here in the uk failed to air anything about this . from all the footage ive seen the media outnumbered the protesters

reply to post by da pickles


There was an ITV film crew beside me in Cornhill, you can even see him in one of my videos. I haven't seen any of his footage and he had the best vantage point because he had some gopher carrying around a step ladder for him.

For all those people who think this was murder, do you actually think that the person who pushed him in the legs was trying to kill him?


My personal feelings on this are that it was a tragic accident.
There was no attempt to murder.

Perhaps the officer that hit him in the legs was overzealous but when I watch the video, I don't see a murder.

I see some heavy handed crowd control when the office hits him in the legs but that's it.

reply to post by Wildbob77



Yes you are dead right, the police officer accidentally rushed forward and hit a guy in the back by accident.

reply to post by RE2505


I did say that the officer was heavy handed in his method of dealing with this.

I didn't suggest that it was an accident.

However, I don't think that he had murder on his mind when he whacked him in the legs with his night stick... Or is that just a little know method used my mafia hit men?

I do sympathize with the family and friends of the victim.

Yeah but if you smack someone in a bar fight, and they die, you may not have intended to kill him, but you'll get tried as if you did.

Here's a little piece from the Times about the thursday demo

Last week, after spending seven hours as a journalist locked into an increasingly small cordon, after watching police officers charge with truncheons and shields and after watching peaceful protesters retreat bloodied, I wrote about my experience.

I claimed in this paper that the police action – detaining thousands of innocent people without charge, and then systematically squeezing them over a period of hours – seemed guaranteed to produce violence. I argued that many of the police involved seemed not just prepared, but eager, for a fight.

After the article was published, Sara McAlpine – who said that she had happened to pass a demonstration the following day to mark Mr Tomlinson’s death – sent me an e-mail. There is no way to corroborate her account, except that it tallies with so many others. “This is what I witnessed myself in 15 minutes standing near the Bank of England,” she said. “The police split the protest into two groups on two cornering streets, not letting anyone leave. Suddenly, a policeman threw a punch at the face of a male, who raised his right arm to try and block the punch (no retaliation, merely a block). Immediately, three officers threw him up against the scaffolding, knocked him to the ground and beat him with their batons. They then carried him horizontally away.

“A photographer on the spectator side of the cordon tried to capture it. An officer ran over and grabbed him, trying to force him into the cordon. He escaped but the officer came after him and squared up to him (who was right next to me at this point) shouting, ‘Do you want a piece of this, huh, do you want to come and get some?’ He was then called back by another officer.

“A few minutes later, a girl no more than 10 metres away from me, who was on the front line of the cordon, was suddenly shoved up against a wall and kicked repeatedly by a policeman. He left her as she stayed cowering.”

“At that point, five police surrounded us (as quite a crowd had amassed in horror by now) and told us that we would be arrested if we didn't move along. One guy said he had a right to stand there and watch and the policeman threatened him in no uncertain terms that he would either be arrested or thrown in the cordon if he didn't move. He did. I left.”

Hers was not the only e-mail. Steven McManus, who says he is a barrister and a former special constable, was in Threadneedle Street on Wednesday. “At around 6pm I was outside the Royal Exchange chatting with some officers. I was between the officers and the protesers. The atmosphere was calm and non-confrontational. I shared a few jokes with one officer and was just generally chatting.

“A short while later the line began to move forward. The officers began to shout that we should all move back. I turned towards the crowd and began to move off in that direction. As I was walking away I was struck from behind by a baton and pushed forward towards the steps of Bank Underground.

“I was more than a little shocked at having been hit. The officer who had struck me was one I had been chatting to moments earlier, who knew about my City Police connection, and to whom I had my back turned. I remonstrated with the officer as to why he had hit me – his reply being: “F*** off, move back”. He said he could not help but be reminded of the manner of the attack on Tomlinson.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

I think it's quite clear that the police are sending a message.

There's a saying that goes something like this:

"If you are a hammer, you treat everything like it's a nail"


It sure didn't look like those people were rioting, BUT the riot police was there so....



Peace, please.

reply to post by Acidtastic


"I argued that many of the police involved seemed not just prepared, but eager, for a fight."

This is what I have been saying from the start, before the Ian Tomlinson death reports. When I first arrived I was very open minded and calm. I was not there to cause any trouble so why should I fear police officers? Then without warning the line of riot police charged forward. I was facing them holding my bike. I had to turn my bike around and move which was pretty tough because I was being shoved by a plastic riot shield into a guy behind with another bike. I asked them to stop pushing because I couldn't get my balance and thier reply was "tough, move" When they finaly stopped pushing one of the officers was snorting like a bull and giving me the most evil stare. I wondered exactly what it was I had done. I suggested to him that he was itching to kick off and he replied "yes, I am". What the hell?

....and what about those SHIELDS and helmets?
What are they now, "new Spartans" pushing Persians/Iranian/Iraqi of their little Gates?

The media silence is Clearly a message in itself:
"WE tell you about stuff"

I wonder if these police have been told to push the edges of what is commonly seen as acceptable behaviour as a slow drip of what is to come . As in the daily express article:

MI5 ALERT ON BANK RIOTS

TOP secret contingency plans have been drawn up to counter the threat posed by a “summer of discontent” in Britain.

The “double-whammy” of the worst economic crisis in living memory and a motley crew of political extremists determined to stir up civil disorder has led to the extraordinary step of the Army being put on standby.

Intelligence sources said the police, backed by MI5, are determined to stay on top of a situation that could spiral out of control as the recession bites deep.

The chilling prospect of soldiers being drafted on to the streets has not been discounted, although it is regarded as a last resort.

What worries emergency planners most is that the middle classes, now struggling to cope with unemployment and repossessions, may take to the streets with the disenfranchised.

The source said “this potent cocktail is reminiscent of the poll tax riots which fatally wounded Margaret Thatcher’s government in 1990”.

www.express.co.uk...

And Here :

'Will you open fire on UK citizens' Army personnel being asked

In a stunning conversation with a friend, who is a serving member of the Armed Forces, over the weekend, it was revealed that transfers to regiments and other units in the UK on home duties are being undertaken by the MOD based upon whether an individual was prepared to 'open fire' on UK citizens during civil disturbances.

I found this long and extracted conversation to be both bizarre and frightening. I will state at this point that he is someone that I have known for years, and trust implicitly. The fact that service personnel are actually being asked in special briefing sessions whether they would fire on their own nationals indicates that the rumours about the Army being put on standby are indeed very true.

thejournal.parker-joseph.co.uk...


[edit on 11-4-2009 by Drexl]

Well if there's any truth in that Drexl, we're all in for a bumpy ride over these next few years. And it wouldn't supprise me at all.

Here's a few pretty harrowing acccounts of what happened.

6: 9.45pm, Bishopsgate, Louise Broadbent, 27, environmental consultant, from London

I was sitting down in the climate camp with my boyfriend, we'd been there for two or three hours. We were laughing and joking with the police. About half an hour before it happened, they started saying, 'We've got a little surprise for you,' but they wouldn't say anything more.

Then, with no warning that I could hear, the police just steamed in. They were doing a lot of kicking and punching. Two police got hold of me, one on each side, and pulled me away. They had me in a wristlock on both sides, my arms pulled right up behind me, telling me they were going to break my wrists.

Once I was outside the cordon they were saying, 'What shall we do with her now?' and laughing. And one said, 'Let's chuck her back in.'

They shouted, 'Coming through!' and literally threw me into the air, head first, booting me in the back. Luckily I landed on top of someone, but I've still ended up with an egg-sized lump on my head.

"I've got no idea what they were doing. I assumed they were dragging me out to arrest me, or take me away. I've complained to the IPCC, and to my MP and London Assembly member.

1: 1.22pm, Threadneedle Street, Michael Preston, 43, press photographer, from London

On Old Broad Street I was pushed on my back by an inspector, who was moving journalists backwards. I went sprawling and broke my laptop. When I said [to the inspector]: 'You just pushed me over,' he got his face really close to mine and shouted at the top of his voice, 'Don't be stupid, that's a ridiculous suggestion'.

The police were trying to hold photographers back to prevent us from photographing the demo. Effectively, none of us could work properly. Later, after midday on Threadneedle Street, police were hitting the first four rows of the crowd but it was having no effect because of the surge of people from behind.

The police were lashing out. I think it was a mix of British Transport police and Metropolitan police officers. There were loads of baton charges. I was swirling about in the crowd. After taking a picture at 1:21pm, I held up my camera in my right hand and had a press card in my left hand. I shouted to police: 'I'm press, I'm press'.

The officer who was coming toward me made eye contact and shouted: 'I don't care. Get back, get back.' There was nowhere for me to go. He then swung his truncheon upwards to hit me on my left elbow. He certainly saw my press pass. I've never felt pain like that in my life. I couldn't open my eyes. Later there were lumps on my arms the size of potatoes. My arm was broken.

www.guardian.co.uk...

it makes me so angry reading stuff like that. They are utter bastards.