GOP Budget Proposal: Massive Tax Cut For Wealthy

reply to post by jimmyx
No problems my fellow "State'r" !!!

...Hey...that might be a good new name for us citizens, after the "America Corp" is shut down!

What do you expect, the Republicans have always supported "passive" wealth redistribution - from the middle class to the wealthy.

This is nothing new.

There is some sort of nostalgia for the era of unregulated capitalism right out of Victorian-era England, no pesky labor laws or other regulations to interfere with business, where one could save money by forcing children to work 60-hour weeks, or run a meat-packing plant without any safety regulations, and nobody had to worry about their tax money feeding the poor...

Ahhh, the good old days

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife

well...first, we, the people, seem to owe alot of money....thanks to our friends in washington....
it is immoral as all hades for us to leave this debt for our children.
it's our debt, not theirs!!
so, how we gonna pay it?
give ya a clue, it's worthless to think about how to pay as long as you are borrowing to stay afloat!
there's only one way out. cut the spending, and do something to bring in more money!! you say that if we tax the rich, they will all fly away, but I would like to point out, you tax those that are teetering between being self sufficient and being partially dependant on the government, well, congratualtions, you just created more dependants!!
dependants that will make it necessary for you to need more money, higher taxes, which, well, think you get my drift....it's a nice cycle!

I wonder, my employee over here is falling $15 a month short of being able to glide through the month, pay his bills, take care of the basic needs. is it gonna cost me more to just pay him that $15 a month, or should I send across the country, to someone hired to collect it and pass it onto another agency, who will then send it back another government, another agency, who will then send to the agency in my town, who will then pass it to someone hired in this agency, who will then give it to my employee?
we are in a cycle, a self feeding, self generating cycle!

Originally posted by drwizardphd
If you truly believe this, than you have either never taken an economics class, or you failed to pay attention in it.

I took economics way back in college. i stand by what I said.
The only FAIR tax is a flat tax.
If a FAIR tax means that there isn't enough extra $$ for the politicians
to spend on ignorant earmarks - like the $50 million for Pelosi's mice -
then so be it. The world won't fall apart. In fact, it'll probably be better.

Originally posted by drwizardphd
The rich become wealthy by exploiting the poor.
And yes, that is the only way to get rich.

That's dead wrong.

For every person who gains wealth in excess of what they need,

It's none of your business and none of my business to decide what someone 'needs' and to decide that people should only have enough to cover their 'needs'.

A free market society doesnt' work that way. If people make enough for two houses, that's none of our business. It's their right to make money. We have no right to put a cap on what people can make and we do not have a right to steal what they make under the guise of 'social responsibility taxes'.

Atlas Shrugged. Who is John Galt?

then perhaps you should pay attention to how the rich use their wealth and influence to steal from the poor every day. We are currently in a recession because of this very fact.

Uh .. no. We are in a recession today because of Barney Frank and people like him. We are in a recession today because of people like Obama having sued Citibank and forced it to make bad housing loans to people that the bank knew couldn't pay it back. We are in a recession today because people LIVED BEYOND THEIR INCOME. Not rich people who could afford things ... but every day people.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
If it wasn't for rich people you probably wouldn't have a job, and neither would millions of other people.

Very true.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
The fact is that if you tax the rich into oblivion then all the rich people are going to more wealth friendly countries.

We have a wealthy friend who actually said that exact thing last summer.
And that's what happened in Atlas Shrugged. They all took their goodies and left. The country soon fell apart.



[edit on 3/26/2009 by FlyersFan]

reply to post by dawnstar


I have a better idea, nationalize the Fed. Most of the 10+ trillion dollar national debt is debt we owe to the federal reserve.

Also you have to take into account that rich, people will go to a third world country and live like a king. Not only will they do that, but they will flee here just to stay safe, because the left is playing this class warfare game.

It is called unintended consequences. The left wants the government to do EVERYTHING they don't want any rich people, they want everybody poor and dependent on government.

What they are doing has nothing to do with money it is all centered around power. We have to cut spending, and reduce the size of government. Then we need a tax transition. We also need to make the country more business friendly.

There are lots of ways to get out of this, but the ways that benefits everybody requires the government to give away their power, and that isn't going to happen....... willingly.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

I find it ironic that I never hear the wealthy complain how high their tax rate is. Why is that? Simple, they will be wealthy no matter what rate they pay.

A fifty percent tax rate on someone making five million per year still leaves them 2.5 million to live on, pretty hard to do that huh?

Before you jump down my throat, I'm not advocating a 50% tax rate for anyone.

This exact issue is argued almost daily on a different board I'm on daily. I've said the same thing here that I've said there. Yes, we need the rich, but the rich need us more than we need them.

Again, it's all greed. I don't give a damn what anyone says, no one needs fifty thousand a week to live on (The nasty divorce battle that's in the news now) No one.

Greed equals power, that's what drives the very wealthy to make more money, they love the power they have over people.

Heres what I say

Bring all our troops home from all the countries we occupy

Cut off all foreign aid to places like Pakistan, Israel, Saudi Arabia , etc & wash our hands of the middle east all together by drilling our own oil and doing massive wind, solar, and nuclear initiatives...

Stop the war on drugs and prostitution legalize and tax them

Dismantle all the Depts of Corruption ie Energy, Agriculture, Education, etc.

Last but not least eliminate the income tax all together for ALL individuals via repealing the 16th Amendment. You want economic stimulus let me tell you that would stimulate America for many many years to come...oh yeah and lets get off the debt based monetary system we are on that we can never ever ever ever repay all the debt on and have some sound money. If the Republicans brought this out Id agree but otherwise its all crap because they want to lower taxes for the top but not shrink spending anywhere continuing to rack up massive debt.....

Originally posted by saturnsrings
no one needs fifty thousand a week to live on .

Sure. But you and I have NO RIGHT to put a cap on how much someone makes. That's theft. That's stealing from those who make $$ simply because we can't make as much. That would be insinuating our morals on others.

(kinda like what the pro-choice crowd complains about when the pro-life crowd says .. no abortions).

Originally posted by mybigunit
Heres what I say

Bring all our troops home from all the countries we occupy

Cut off all foreign aid to places like Pakistan, Israel, Saudi Arabia , etc & wash our hands of the middle east all together by drilling our own oil and doing massive wind, solar, and nuclear initiatives...

Stop the war on drugs and prostitution legalize and tax them

Dismantle all the Depts of Corruption ie Energy, Agriculture, Education, etc.

Last but not least eliminate the income tax all together for ALL individuals via repealing the 16th Amendment. You want economic stimulus let me tell you that would stimulate America for many many years to come...oh yeah and lets get off the debt based monetary system we are on that we can never ever ever ever repay all the debt on and have some sound money. If the Republicans brought this out Id agree but otherwise its all crap because they want to lower taxes for the top but not shrink spending anywhere continuing to rack up massive debt.....

Pull all our folks in, build a wall around the U.S. and become a nation of xenophobes? It's an interesting premise, but if it were ever done I doubt the country would last a decade. Our former allies would probably be out to seek revenge against us. Other countries would most likely band together against us.

As the wealthiest nation in the world, we are expected to share the wealth, just like the wealthiest Americans in the nation are expected to share a portion of their wealth with charities and donate back to society. Those who don't are quickly labeled selfish, petty, even evil. Like I said, we wouldn't last long as a nation of rich xenophobes.

The last tax cut hasn't even expired yet...

I fail to see how this is supposed to stimulate the economy..

I guess I'm the only one on this thread who doesn't think the government is robbing me blind through taxation. Sure, a little tax break would be nice, but that's not where most of my money goes anyway. What I could really use are a raise, lower power bills and lower mortgage interest rates, and lower costs for all my needs. Those the government can't help me with, at least not directly. Increased prosperity for all would.

Do I mind that my tax money goes to help those less fortunate? Not at all. If I were in their shoes I'd appreciate the help too.

The reality is that during the years since Ronald Reagan introduced "trickle down" economics the rich got richer, the middle class is rapidly shrinking, and poverty is rising.

I don't believe that I'm any the better off because some millionaire is getting millions more in bonuses. My paycheck comes from an institution, not a rich person. Millionaires are investing in luxury goods, spending sprees in Europe and trust funds for his/her children, not in me or people like me.

When people eulogize about the virtues of the rich they include corporations, which are not rich people. They are institutions that make the rich richer and it's not by their gracious magnanimity that the employees of corporations get their paychecks. Corporations hire workers because they need workers to continue to stay in business. Workers generate profits, they don't just suck up resources. Large corporations don't pay workers a penny more than they absolutely have to before they can't get qualified workers anymore, and they can almost always find somebody to work for less. That's a main source of the big profits that make the executives and stockholders so happy.

It's not the rich that keep Wal-Mart and other similar corporations in business, it's the spending power of the lower and middle classes that do. Economic prosperity for all, even the bottom of the income scale, keeps an economy going just as well or better than giving more money to the rich alone.

We can't provide stimulus to the broken economy (broken not by the poor or middle class) without taxation. The very rich and corporations have paid less than their share over the years since Reagan, what with all the loopholes and tax shelters they have found, so it's time they help pay now for the sins of the more privileged people who have had control of our financial institutions forever.

And Dawnstar, I have paid into social security all my working life so that when my time comes to retire I will have something of a stable income. It's not a handout, I've paid for it. That is if the Republicans don't destroy Social Security through privatization or other schemes to trash it.

Make the Fed Transparent!!

This is the first step..not all of this eat the rich garbage!

I'm sick and tired of the class warfare...it's all diversion from the real problem and some of you are eating it up.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


the federal reserve being gone would help, yes...but then, what's to say that the treasury and congress, pres, won't just go hog wild without that restraint from the fed? we've tried it without the fed, we still ended up in what was then called a depression (more like a recession).

First, I don't consider my bosses rich....sorry, don't feel like debating just where "rich" falls.
but, I will say this, if you are working for a company that has alot of employees making very low wages, and are one of the few that are making really good wages, well, hate to say this to ya....but....
you are dependant on our government. you are depending on your boss, who is depending on the government to pick up the slack from where their wages end to keep them alive and able bodied! you are depending on the taxpayers to continue to be willing to help these people. if this lifeline were to ever be cut, you place of work would be faced some bad side effects, weather that be overtired workers trying to hold down two or three jobs just to pay bills, employees demanding raises, employees getting contagous diseases and not seeking medical attention, just coming to work with who knows what...whatever. I am not saying what the government should be doing, but I do think that maybe it's time to accept that it is more important for all the employees of a company to come home with a paycheck that will serve their needs than it is for a few to make a few more hundred thousand dollars more this year!!! I think that is a moral obligation of all employers! quit passing the buck off to the taxpayers!

Originally posted by sos37

Pull all our folks in, build a wall around the U.S. and become a nation of xenophobes? It's an interesting premise, but if it were ever done I doubt the country would last a decade. Our former allies would probably be out to seek revenge against us. Other countries would most likely band together against us.

As the wealthiest nation in the world, we are expected to share the wealth, just like the wealthiest Americans in the nation are expected to share a portion of their wealth with charities and donate back to society. Those who don't are quickly labeled selfish, petty, even evil. Like I said, we wouldn't last long as a nation of rich xenophobes.

Then enjoy your tax hikes my friend because you cant have it both ways. You can run a world empire, police state, nanny state, and welfare state and pay large taxes or you can get rid of policing the world, the police state, and nanny state and pay no taxes. Its as simple as that you make the choice but running huge deficits is not going to work and its just not fair to pass this debt on to my kids and my kids kids.......

Originally posted by grover
reply to post by jjkenobi

 

Think about it... If everyone making under $100,000 taxes get reduced to 10% and those making more taxes get slashed from 35 to 25%...

... how will we ever pay off what we owe prior to Obama... much less what he's adding on?

The answer we don't. If we do this plan it really is pawning the whole thing off on the next few generations... i.e. your children's children's children...

Besides all of that... not just the federal but the state and local governments will go bankrupt and cease to function so when the pot holes get too bad and the cops aren't there to deal with the crack dealers next door and... need I go on? You can count your savings from your tax cut.

Think about it - it's insignificant as far as reducing the national debt is concerned. Want to know why?

$11,054,494,167,129.72

The estimated population of the United States is 305,887,725 so each citizen's share of this debt is $36,139.06.

www.brillig.com...

So how exactly is this tax break plan of the GOP a threat to paying off the massive debt that's in there now? Even with the current tax plan, there's no hope of paying off the current debt in the near future fixed at it's current amount, not including the $3.76 billion per day that gets added to it.

Originally posted by mybigunit

Originally posted by sos37

Pull all our folks in, build a wall around the U.S. and become a nation of xenophobes? It's an interesting premise, but if it were ever done I doubt the country would last a decade. Our former allies would probably be out to seek revenge against us. Other countries would most likely band together against us.

As the wealthiest nation in the world, we are expected to share the wealth, just like the wealthiest Americans in the nation are expected to share a portion of their wealth with charities and donate back to society. Those who don't are quickly labeled selfish, petty, even evil. Like I said, we wouldn't last long as a nation of rich xenophobes.

Then enjoy your tax hikes my friend because you cant have it both ways. You can run a world empire, police state, nanny state, and welfare state and pay large taxes or you can get rid of policing the world, the police state, and nanny state and pay no taxes. Its as simple as that you make the choice but running huge deficits is not going to work and its just not fair to pass this debt on to my kids and my kids kids.......

Man, I totally agree with you about the debt. I agree that it's unfair to see it passed onto our children. I didn't vote for Obama in the last election and these "trillions" that we're packing on in the name of a "spend our way out of recession" economic philosophy is outright insanity! It's completely insane! But I don't think we can forgo our worldwide alliances. Right now we need as many friends as we can get - that was one of the things I had a big disagreement with the Bush administration about, was their unwillingingness to be more receptive to foreign relations, especially to hostile nations that we had the potential to turn around and make possible allies in the future.

reply to post by dawnstar


This is really starting to venture into other topic territory. There is more going on than meets the eye. There is no "one" solution. The government laws and regulations need to be completely overhauled.

Yes, recessions happen in a capitalist economy. Capitalism has boom and bust cycles. With a free market lots of people jump into what ever the "new trend" is and then the market place can't handle all the choices and a "recession" or bust cycle happens to clean out all the companies that are living off of loans and are not profitable. Just the way of life.

And as far as the gov controlling money, which is the constitutional thing to do, there needs to be an amendment added that dictates monetary policy.

We are to the point where we need amendments to enforce what is already in the constitution because people can't be trusted.

As far as tax rates go, I support a flat/fair tax. Gov. is limited in what it can spend and an amendment which forces them to run a $0 deficit and national debt.

reply to post by David9176


I totally agree with you - how much do you make? Need to know before I give your post a star.

The only "fair" tax is a flat tax. At a 10% rate, the person who makes $1,000,000 pays $100,000 in taxes. The person who makes $50,000 pays $5,000. If you missed that day in 6th grade, that is proportional

Tell me - please anyone tell me why thats not fair. Really think about your argument. Is it because you don't think that there should be such a disparity in income? OK Be honest - your a socialist. I've got no problem with a socialist, as long as their are honest and say they are a socialist. I have a problem with folks who on the one hand say they hate socialism and in the next breath say the rich make too much money. Which is it.

Do a bit of reading - there is no "managed socialism". At the end of the day, its all socialism. Taxation is a black and white issue. You either want to be fair or social engineer. There is no middle ground.

How about this - What is the definition of a fair outcome as it relates to taxes? Is it not that all pay a proportional amount of income in taxes? if thats right, the taxes on the rich should be cut more than in half. If its not, your a socialist

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by dawnstar

 

I have a better idea, nationalize the Fed. Most of the 10+ trillion dollar national debt is debt we owe to the federal reserve.

Also you have to take into account that rich, people will go to a third world country and live like a king. Not only will they do that, but they will flee here just to stay safe, because the left is playing this class warfare game.

It is called unintended consequences. The left wants the government to do EVERYTHING they don't want any rich people, they want everybody poor and dependent on government.

Well I dig your first sentence, but the fact that you actually believe liberals want everybody poor and dependent is frankly sad and woefully inaccurate.

BTW - I have mention EISENHOWER R and his presidencies 90% top 1% tax to you and a few others many times and I hear ZERO response to it. May I point it out again -
raising taxes 5% or less is hardly 90% - May I also point out that the economy did just fine in the 50's.

Back to the left - I personally prefer a robust government because I fear the tyranny of
men who hold the capital of tens of millions of individuals - GOVERNMENT should be the will of the people - private entities hold no allegiance to man or country.

simply put from my pov.

Originally posted by sos37


Man, I totally agree with you about the debt. I agree that it's unfair to see it passed onto our children. I didn't vote for Obama in the last election and these "trillions" that we're packing on in the name of a "spend our way out of recession" economic philosophy is outright insanity! It's completely insane! But I don't think we can forgo our worldwide alliances. Right now we need as many friends as we can get - that was one of the things I had a big disagreement with the Bush administration about, was their unwillingingness to be more receptive to foreign relations, especially to hostile nations that we had the potential to turn around and make possible allies in the future.

Good Im glad we agree and this isnt just Obama and not just Bush this has been going on since the 70s. Its very simple if you dont think we can live without policing the world then pay your taxes and like it. That is where half the money per year goes. The other half goes to the welfare, police, and nanny state here at home. So as long as people want to tell people how to live both here and abroad we are going to pay for it in fact we dont pay enough for the lifestyle we live we need a tax increase not a decrease.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by mybigunit]