GOP Budget Proposal: Massive Tax Cut For Wealthy

Originally posted by FlyersFan

It doesn't matter how much someone 'feels' it.
It matters what is just.
Stealing from the rich simply because they are rich is not just.
(and no ... I'm not rich)

The rich become wealthy by exploiting the poor. And yes, that is the only way to get rich. For every person who gains wealth in excess of what they need, 100 people feel the effects. There is only so much money to go around, or perhaps you don't know how monetary systems work?

If you think a dynamic tax proposal is stealing from the rich, then perhaps you should pay attention to how the rich use their wealth and influence to steal from the poor every day. We are currently in a recession because of this very fact.

reply to post by Hx3_1963


Yes I do, its as plain as day. It seems to work though, I guess that is why they keep doing it.

Oh well, the people that care more about what is in somebody else's pocket and what they are taking home are too busy bickering to notice that the government is in their pocket taking everything they have.

reply to post by drwizardphd

Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Actually, a flat tax where everyone pays the same percentage across the board is the only fair tax.

If you truly believe this, than you have either never taken an economics class, or you failed to pay attention in it.

If we were to implement a flat tax, one of two things would happen:

1. We would balance the taxes to support the lower classes, and our economy would fall apart due to lost tax income from corporations.

2. We would balance the taxes to support the economy, and the entire lower class would fall into destitution as they could no longer afford basic necessities. Also, the middle classes would feel increasing pressure from the increased taxes, and cut back on consumption, destroying the economy.

This is solved by having two tax rates: one for the individuals and one for the businesses.

Experience with flat taxes have been successful. In fact, some countries have already lowered their original flat tax rates to stay competitive.

www.heritage.org...

reply to post by drwizardphd

The rich become wealthy by exploiting the poor.

First of all...what do you quantify as rich? If I make 1,000,000 dollars...are you insinuating that I pushed down poor people to do this?

There is only so much money to go around, or perhaps you don't know how monetary systems work?

There is plenty of money to go around. The federal reserve will just inflate it...IT ALL GOES BACK TO THE FEDERAL RESERVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you think a dynamic tax proposal is stealing from the rich, then perhaps you should pay attention to how the rich use their wealth and influence to steal from the poor every day. We are currently in a recession because of this very fact.

We are in a recession because the federal reserve lowered interest rates to far. We are in recession because of out of control government spending. We are in a recession because the dollar doesn't hold the value that it once did.

It's all the rich?

you are lost pal...LOST.

are they gonna cut the budget, to accomodate the tax cuts??

I mean, you can play with the tax rates all you want. it's the spending that is killing us! that, and the cost of the interest because they always have to spend more than they can reasonably get from us through taxes!

but, well, why do today, what you can put off tomorrow, or next year, or the next decade, or the next century, right??

NO TAX CUTS!! GIVE US SPENDING CUTS!!!

Are there any inclined to argue that it is reasonable that on average three months of one's labor is devoted to paying the Fed (via the IRS) to service the debt the Federal government has accumulated?

If one stops to consider that this is all about people spending other people's money, it's an ugly inconsistency in governance.

It is true the term 'rich' is relative. But then, so is 'poor' or 'struggling'.

Commercial exploitation is the cornerstone of business. No matter how you slice it, profit is excess. There will ALWAYS be those who question how much profit constitutes abusive exploitation.

"What the market will bear" is indeed a two edged sword, because traditionally, in our country, when the market can't 'bear it' any longer, the machinery is in place to protect the profit, as opposed to the abused. That strategy has led to revolutionary reaction in the past, and recognizing that, rather than relieve the abused and reign in the abusers, the establishment wants to control the market.

What's that word?..... Greed.



[edit on 26-3-2009 by Maxmars]

Originally posted by David9176
First of all...what do you quantify as rich? If I make 1,000,000 dollars...are you insinuating that I pushed down poor people to do this?

Yes, because you don't NEED a million dollars. You are living beyond your natural/economic means, and everyone else suffers because of it.

There is plenty of money to go around. The federal reserve will just inflate it...IT ALL GOES BACK TO THE FEDERAL RESERVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously? This is incredibly short-sighted and moronic. Your solution to people having too much money is... inflation? Or are you being sarcastic to enforce my point?

We are in a recession because the federal reserve lowered interest rates to far. We are in recession because of out of control government spending. We are in a recession because the dollar doesn't hold the value that it once did.

It's all the rich?

you are lost pal...LOST.

You can mark my words on this one: I am willing to bet that 99%, if not EVERY LAST ONE of the people responsible for the economic crisis we are facing, is living well beyond their means. If you would like to show me some people who make less than $100,000 a year who have had a major hand in our economy..ever, I will gladly eat my words.

reply to post by drwizardphd


Uh huh, and if you make 15,000 a year then you are living beyond your needs. You don't need that one bedroom apartment, all you need is a 12 x 12 room, and we'll set up a community kitchen and showers so you can get fed and get clean.

There are lots of rich people that give millions and millions of dollars that combined makes billions to charity.

Things like cancer research, setting up shelters to help the homeless, and numerous other charities that all go to helping people. Your entire argument is illogical and has no basis in reality.

If it wasn't for rich people you probably wouldn't have a job, and neither would millions of other people. You know there is a reason why Russia built a wall, and it wasn't to keep people from coming in it was to keep people for sneaking out.

You know I'm not sure if you are aware, but America was built upon this concept called freedom.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by grover

 

Did you miss this part, grover:

Under the Republican plan, the top marginal tax rate would be slashed from 35 to 25 percent, facilitating a dramatic transfer of wealth up the economic scale. Anyone making more than a $100,000 would pay the top rate; those under would pay 10 percent.

In other words, everybody will be getting a tax break.

Look at the tax brackets for a single person, you will see I am right.

www.fairmark.com...

No, grover didn't miss that part, grover chose to ignore that part.

I guess he/she thinks the current tax break of $13 a week for the working class is better. And just so the libs can't henpeck the source, I've linked to a very liberal media outlet.

The $400 credit for individuals is to be doled out through the rest of the year. Couples are slated to get up to $800. Most workers are to see about a $13 per week increase in their take-home pay. In 2010, the credit would be about $7.70 a week, if it is spread over the entire year.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Everyone under 100k pays only 10%? Heck yeah sign me up for that. That will give me about 20% more of my own paycheck to survive on as inflation goes through the roof because the idiotic Democratic controlled govt printed a trillion dollars.


And while I get my tax break I'm supposed to be upset that everyone is getting one including people who make more than me? Are you insane?

reply to post by drwizardphd


The main problem with your premise is who is it that gets to decide 'need'.

Is it the gov't? Or the individual?

You're a go-getter, I'm a slacker. Do we both 'need' the same amount?

Or do you propose "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"?

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by drwizardphd

 

Uh huh, and if you make 15,000 a year then you are living beyond your needs. You don't need that one bedroom apartment, all you need is a 12 x 12 room, and we'll set up a community kitchen and showers so you can get fed and get clean.

There are lots of rich people that give millions and millions of dollars that combined makes billions to charity.

Things like cancer research, setting up shelters to help the homeless, and numerous other charities that all go to helping people. Your entire argument is illogical and has no basis in reality.

If it wasn't for rich people you probably wouldn't have a job, and neither would millions of other people. You know there is a reason why Russia built a wall, and it wasn't to keep people from coming in it was to keep people for sneaking out.

You know I'm not sure if you are aware, but America was built upon this concept called freedom.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

it is better to enable a person to catch his own fish, than to provide him (ration might be a better word) a fish every day!! are we creating poor, just the few rich folks can feel all warm and fuzzy while they ration out what "they need"..

and, well, as far as "what they need" being quite relevant, I have a solution to that....
the government gives many non-working individuals and families enough for them to live relatively comfy. I would suggest that since the government is prompted to provide this level of comfyness to these people through our taxes, that this is what would be defined as "needed"! the government provides them with adequate healthcare, so I would assume that the government feels that that adequate healthcare is a necessity worthy of the intercession to provide for those who cannot afford it. so, it must be a necessity, right? so, why are so many going without? same goes food, housing, heat, ect. in other words, when a 12x12 room is suitable for someone laying back on welfare, or even on social security, well, then, I will be willing to say it is suitable for everyone...
by the way, I spent about a month living in a room about that size.

Originally posted by Hx3_1963
This is how "they" get us everytime...

Taxes levied through the IRS is illegal to begin with...

As is the Fed...

...But by squabbling amongst ourselfs about such things that shouldn't exsist in the first place...the transfer still continues unabated...

[edit on 3/26/2009 by Hx3_1963]

sure, ok, the transfer of wealth has been from the bottom to the top all along. the class war has been fought with the middle class and the poor class losing big time. look at tax rolls, income distribution, any official chart you want to look at, and the wealthy have been sucking the lower classes dry for decades. now we have this financial crisis...let's see...middle class lost money on their homes, 401k's, and job downsizing. and what...i'm suppose to feel sorry for the wealthy???? maybe it's time for alittle wealth distribution by pitchfork and torches...our "marie antoinettes" of wall street should be thrown into the bastille.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by jimmyx]

reply to post by drwizardphd

Yes, because you don't NEED a million dollars. You are living beyond your natural/economic means, and everyone else suffers because of it.

Are you living beyond your means? Or are you living on the street with your laptop plugged into the wall of a restaurant? Did you eat 2 Ritz crackers? Someone out there would surely want one of those. You are living beyond your means by being on the internet. You don't need to really right? You don't need a computer..or an internet connection.

Inflation is huge reason why people are as poor as they are. I thought you would get that...

Eat the rich.

[edit on 26-3-2009 by David9176]

reply to post by jimmyx
Maybe that didn't come out right...

When I said the transfer continues unabated...

I ment from (almost) ALL of us...

(almost) Every person on the face of this earth...

Every nation on the face of the Earth is throwing OUR/EVERYONES money at this/"them"...

...Does that help clarify my position?

[edit on 3/26/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by dawnstar


I've lived in a room that size with 6 other people.

The fact is that if you tax the rich into oblivion then all the rich people are going to more wealth friendly countries.

Personally I don't have a problem with the rich like many other people do. What somebody else makes doesn't matter to me, I'm more concerned with putting food on my table and supporting my family. And it is usually a rich person that pays my paycheck.

If you are tired of rich people getting richer then quit shopping and buying products that they produce. It is that simple. But people aren't that smart to figure it out, instead they would rather run to the government and give the government more power to intrude into my life and threaten my freedom, because they are too lazy, whinny, and too much of a coward to stand up for themselves.

I can really care less how much somebody makes.

reply to post by jjkenobi


Think about it... If everyone making under $100,000 taxes get reduced to 10% and those making more taxes get slashed from 35 to 25%...

... how will we ever pay off what we owe prior to Obama... much less what he's adding on?

The answer we don't. If we do this plan it really is pawning the whole thing off on the next few generations... i.e. your children's children's children...

Besides all of that... not just the federal but the state and local governments will go bankrupt and cease to function so when the pot holes get too bad and the cops aren't there to deal with the crack dealers next door and... need I go on? You can count your savings from your tax cut.

Originally posted by grover

Anyone making more than a $100,000 would pay the top rate; those under would pay 10 percent.

10%.......that's peanuts!

It's 20% here.

How can you complain when everyone's taxes are so low?

Am I missing something here....please tell me I am before I laugh out loud!

Originally posted by Hx3_1963
reply to post by jimmyx

 

Maybe that didn't come out right...

When I said the transfer continues unabated...

I ment from (almost) ALL of us...

(almost) Every person on the face of this earth...

Every nation on the face of the Earth is throwing OUR/EVERYONES money at this/"them"...

...Does that help clarify my position?

[edit on 3/26/2009 by Hx3_1963]

clear as glass, sorry about that
i got a little cranky there, time to cut off my coffee intake.

removed double-post

[edit on 26/3/2009 by nerbot]