Why isn't Eurofighter getting stealth?

Does anyone know why Eurofighter isnt getthing a RAM coating? It has the correct shape and construction to reflect, radar, but has no paint to absorb it. Britain had stealth before the Americans and BAE has the capabilites in the areas of stealth -- bottom of page of link.

www.baesystems.com...

It is clearly needed as F/A-22 and JSF will both have stealth coatings, and Rafale will be fitted with active cancellation of the French Air Force.

I think money is the key here. I gather there was a german Stealth supersonic fighter in the 1980s , but gave up the programe at the end of the cold war due to lack of threat and not enough of a funding priority. Its dumb when you think about it in retrospect, since it was more advanced than the F22! But then things did look different back in the early 90s.

[Edited on 17-4-2004 by psteel]

The Eurofighter does incorporate radar-absorbing materials

The design of the Eurofighter Typhoon has not sacrificed flexibility of weapon carriage, maneuverability or performance to produce an inflexible stealth aircraft but it does contain a comprehensive suite of stealth features.:
www.eurofighter.com...


The airframe surface area is made up of 70% Carbon Fibre Composites (CFCs), 15% lightweight alloys and titanium, 12% Glass Reinforced Plastics (GRP) and 3% other materials.
Metals make up only 15% of the materials used in the Eurofighter.
These strong and lightweight materials reduces the weight and size of the airframe and engine, than they would have been when it was constructed with "old-fashioned" aluminium.
These materials also provide a reduced radar signature.:
www.air-attack.com...

I think the Eurofighter was designed with manouvrability in mind rather than stealth so it can evade attack by being very agile

Well the stealth is still be researched and tested plus a UK stealth fighter has ben made, but hasn't been tested in battle yet

really?
whats it called?
iv heard they were building 1 but no othr news about it

Here you go devilwasp.....there is a thread on this somewhere within ATS, but couldn't locate on short notice:
Secret UK stealth plane project revealed




seekerof

They even stripped the cannon from eurofighters to save money- and the program started about 20 years ago.F22 is like a whole generaton ahead.

emm i have to say this to state the obviois but what the **** is the point in a cannon on a supersonic jet ?
i mean come on its designed for supersonic manoveurs and stuff not for sub sonic fighting
also does the f22 have an engine that doesnt require it to afterburn to reach mach speeds ?

[Edited on 05/03/2004 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by devilwasp
emm i have to say this to state the obviois but what the **** is the point in a cannon on a supersonic jet ?
i mean come on its designed for supersonic manoveurs and stuff not for sub sonic fighting
also does the f22 have an engine that doesnt require it to afterburn to reach mach speeds ?

[Edited on 05/03/2004 by devilwasp]

The Americans also thought that cannon is useless (F4 Phantom in Vietnam) and they regret it.

And yes the F22 has supercruise - 1.4 Mach without afterburner AND IS ALSO MORE MANEUVRABLE. The EF is maneuvring better only when speed is more than 1.6 mach.

u keep going on about how the f22 uses missles to destroy craft i never once heard about any 1 saying how an f22 can kill an aircraft with its cannon
u also say how the f22 is a generation ahead of the euro fighter no wonder the us but billions into that project i mean come on this wasnt exsactly our top of the list project at the RAF
also the f22 has the latest radar and weaponry the euro fighter doesnt if it did then u would have a match up thier in the sky

Originally posted by ppp
Does anyone know why Eurofighter isnt getthing a RAM coating? It has the correct shape and construction to reflect, radar, but has no paint to absorb it. Britain had stealth before the Americans and BAE has the capabilites in the areas of stealth -- bottom of page of link.

www.baesystems.com...

It is clearly needed as F/A-22 and JSF will both have stealth coatings, and Rafale will be fitted with active cancellation of the French Air Force.

RAM will help but look at the shape of teh F-22 and JSF there more boxy then the eurofighter

but i thought that right angels made the radar bounce off it

Originally posted by devilwasp
but i thought that right angels made the radar bounce off it

its scaters it more making the return on the bad guys radad look like a bird rather than a aricraft

oh ok my knowlodge of stealth was u cant c it on radar
thats it

"The Eurofighter does incorporate radar-absorbing materials"

I am aware of that, but a full stealth coating is what is needed to keep it competitive!

"I think the Eurofighter was designed with manouvrability in mind rather than stealth so it can evade attack by being very agile"

But the world has changed, and so should Eurofighter. This is no complicated upgrade, just paint it with RAM. The structure of the plane has been designed to be stealthly, so the RAM would be effective.

"Here you go devilwasp.....there is a thread on this somewhere within ATS, but couldn't locate on short notice"

SORRY LADS, that there is called "replica". Replica is a very good idea by the MOD it isnt all it appears to be though. In the American defence market, Lockheed were plotting to give Britain only a small ammount of workshare, and keep the rest for itself as Britain. To ensure Britain had a nice juicy chunk of the workshare (its appears to be around $50 billion for Britain now) the MOD made a test plane, which could be procured if the Britain didnt get a juicy chunk of the workshare. "Replica" looks nice, but isnt much more than a look nice bit of kit. It is just a carbon fibre frame with windows and someother exotic parts, its doubtful that it has any avionics in it, and it certainly has no engines. It cost the MOD around a �20 million to build, but it has gained the british industry �50 Billion! Some people suggest "replice" is the replacement for the Tornado GR4, which is a possibility, but an equal possibility is a UAV or a heavy bomber. The MOD will be looking really stupid if JSF is cancelled though, as Lockheed, Boeing, Ratheon ect will ask the MOD, when does your indiginous stealth plane go into production!

"They even stripped the cannon from eurofighters to save money"

Yes, From the the trainers! Most trainers dont need guns.

"RAM will help but look at the shape of teh F-22 and JSF there more boxy then the eurofighter"

Eurofighters stealth is mainly built upon its shape, as it Rafale. It is just missing the magic paint! Its like building a wall, plastering it, priming it and then leaving the paint off.

Even with the addition of RAM, the Eurofighter:

The Eurofighter Typhoon cannot and is not classed as a stealth fighter (see fact box). However the consortium did take measures to reduce the aircraft's radar cross section...

Eurofighter Typhoon

Yes, RAM may help.
The RCS is 4 times less that of the Tornado and is only bested by the F-22 Raptor. Then there is the issue of the Eurofighter canards and external weapons mounts....
The Eurofighter may have stealth characteristics, but they will not come close to those of the F-22 Raptors, but then again, it seems that the Raptor was designed as a air dominance fighter with ground attack capabilities and the Eurofighter was designed more so for ground attack and then air dominance?

Nonetheless, both are equally capable aircraft, with varying roles and requirements for each nation's Air Forces,



seekerof

[Edited on 18-4-2004 by Seekerof]

"The RCS is 4 times less that of the Tornado and is only bested by the F-22 Raptor.

"Then there is the issue of the Eurofighter canards and external weapons mounts...."

Canards have little effect on RCS. Externaly carried weapons will increase the RCS, but we arent trying to make another Raptor or B2.

"The Eurofighter may have stealth characteristics, but they will not come close to those of the F-22 Raptors"

It may not come close to F/A22, but it would reduce the RCS enough to be significantly more stealthy. And such a decrease in RCS is the aim, ITS NOT A PLOT AGAINST THE F/A22!

"but then again, it seems that the Raptor was designed as a air dominance fighter with ground attack capabilities and the Eurofighter was designed more so for ground attack and then air dominance?"

Wow...you dont know much do you...lol. Eurofighter was designed as an air dominance fighter, the strike capability was introduced a lot later in the design. Strike capabilites wont be introduced until tranche 2! The RAF has no need for MORE strike aircraft! Harrier, Tornado GR4, Jaguar are all strike aircraft, this will replace Tornado F3, our ONLY dedicated fighter. Do you think the RAF has decided it doesnt need fighter jets anymore, because we now have 20 short range low level anti aircraft systems.

Originally posted by ppp

"but then again, it seems that the Raptor was designed as a air dominance fighter with ground attack capabilities and the Eurofighter was designed more so for ground attack and then air dominance?"

Wow...you dont know much do you...lol. Eurofighter was designed as an air dominance fighter, the strike capability was introduced a lot later in the design. Strike capabilites wont be introduced until tranche 2! The RAF has no need for MORE strike aircraft! Harrier, Tornado GR4, Jaguar are all strike aircraft, this will replace Tornado F3, our ONLY dedicated fighter. Do you think the RAF has decided it doesnt need fighter jets anymore, because we now have 20 short range low level anti aircraft systems.

yes; from the RAF Eurofighter page

The Typhoon is an agile, single seat, multi-role aircraft optimised for high altitude supersonic air combat but also capable of operating at much lower levels in the air-to-ground roles

I would guess that it is based more on cost then their desire to not have it. Also, I could be wrong, but those external mounts are very important. I believe that they increase the RCS by a lot - hence why US stealth aircraft all have internal weapon bays.

I also heard someone say that the EF stealth was bested only by the Raptor - I was wondering if that included the JSF?