Russian analyst: U.S. will collapse next year

They're just jealous of our great invincible world empire that is not crumbling for at least a couple years and fantastic perfect economy that will last far into the next month and possibly beyond.

Originally posted by Retseh

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by Retseh

 

What does that have to do with what they are saying. You are trying to discredit the messenger just because you don't like the message.

Actually I never mentioned the messenger, read it again.

I addressed the issue of the Russians continually and persistently trying to paint the US as a failing nation, a legacy of the Cold War.

With the current global economic meltdown, it's easy to do this kind of mud slinging, but I take this about as seriously as I take similar pronouncements from North Korea.

If you think it carries weight, then run with it.

[edit on 4-3-2009 by Retseh]

But it is a failing state, isn't it? Maybe you guys have been bombarded with too much information from different views and your brains can't handle it. Go take a toke of that weed to relax a little bit.

I can't rule out the possibility of martial law, but division is unlikely.

The groundwork for martial law and heavy handed governing abilities has been seeded into the framework of the US for some time now. Bush did allot to push these agendas.

However, the US has little noticeable concern of de-unification.


Look a little further north, toward us here in Canada, and the story becomes the other way around. Martial law is incredibly unlikely, but Quebec repeatedly demonstrates the potential to separate from Canada.

(That's fine, I won't have to turn over packages to find the english side.)

[edit on 4-3-2009 by jd140]

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
Who are you going to believe? A Russian analyst or an American citizen like myself?

Oxymoron at its finest.

Originally posted by johnsky
I can't rule out the possibility of martial law, but division is unlikely.

Erm, people don't get to decide what gets divided or not. Leaders do.

Originally posted by eldard

Originally posted by johnsky
I can't rule out the possibility of martial law, but division is unlikely.

Erm, people don't get to decide what gets divided or not. Leaders do.

I said it was unlikely, I didn't say I was in a position to do anything about it.

Originally posted by johnsky
I said it was unlikely, I didn't say I was in a position to do anything about it.

Considering that States are now drafting laws to protect their interests, I'd say it's likely.

reply to post by Genfinity


USA could not dare attack Russia because it has scalar weapons , while USA does not ...

Russia will have no probelm conquering USA , once USa falls into civil war ,

I don't get it - you people always want to blame malice and evil plots stretching across generations for these 'plans'. Don't you get it? These are the things that will happen because there isn't any other option.

Of course the US military doesn't WANT to declare martial law. Of course the US in general doesn't WANT to split up into different 'republics' that have their own militia, rules, commerce, etc. This is simply going to be the RESULT of the events which have already been put in motion.

You really, honestly believe that something like this just "can't happen" because of the patriotic 'ol Americans waving their flags?! No-one is going to CHOOSE this collapse and eventual formation of separate governmental entities. It will be forced down your throat and the inevitable consequences are simply natural and predictable.

Wake up people, there is no 'NWO'. Iron Mountain, real or contrived, explains it the best. This is the way it will happen, whether you like it or not.

reply to post by sadchild01


LOL

And we have Star Wars, lol!!!

Actually, we have the Patriot System during the first gulf war. The scuds still penetrated Israel.

You can test the experimental weapons forever but until you use them on a real battle field...

The US (and Russia) have thousands of nukes, not to mention the experimental weapons we don't even know about.

Only afew nukes need to go mushroom to do serious damage to the entire planet.

If the US invaded Russia, there would be allot of dead Americans. If Russia invades the US, there will be allot of dead Russians.

It will also make for one hungry planet? You think the US wouldn't scourge their farms if it came to that?

And if the US falls, who will step in to provide all the humanitarian, economic, and military aid to so many other nations.

"Russia is going to get the US with it's scalar weapons after the civil war."

Well, that's it. Russia has scalar weapons. Let's all give up, lol.

I an see afew states breaking away for a time. I can even see UN troops in New England.

But west of the Mississippi River and in what used to be called dixie land, the UN would be retreating just like they already do in Serbia.

BUt this is all chest beating. We are a long way from civil war, scalar weapons, and the Russian invasion.

I know I fear the day Canada invades Minnesota. That will bring a final resolution to the Lake of the Woods dispute.

I know everybody cares about that.

Russia, China, and the US are not going to be invading each other in this life time or the next.

The whole thing about the world grabbing US land is some made up fantasy by a washed up KGB guy that is now writing books for profit.

Meanwhile, in reality land, Russia is not getting ready to Red Dawn the US with their Star Trek weapons.

Is Obama in over his head? Yes. And Bush was to.

Putin owns both of them.

This is a hi stakes game and the world will be a different place when it's all said and done, more likely for worse then for better.

The world does not want to take down the American machine. They just want to level the playing field alittle.

But there is a very good reason so many people across the world want to immigrate to the US. Despite all the problems here, it's actually a nice, relatively safe place to live. Plus you can get so rich, it's ridiculous. Just get an education, work hard and the dream becomes a reality.

But it's hard to make people understand that when people like "Octomom" are allowed to milk the system like it's a cash cow.

Anyway, for me, this thread is all in good fun and sport.

Enjoy.

reply to post by Genfinity


but , even the highly accurate trend for Gerald Celente says that USa is heading for a violent revolution ,tax revolts, individual states attempting secession etc.

even swedish intellectual Gultang has been saying this since 8 years , and he predicted the fall of Soviet union too


many americans seem to believe this , check this :
answers.yahoo.com...

I'm not particularly inclined to believe this Russian analyst. We may not be at war with Russia, or be in a position where we're best of friends, but they're not a neutral party. And even analysts are influenced by all the crap flying around these days.

If you believe the President, the boo boo will start healing by the end of the year. If you believe his opponents, its the apocalypse and the world will come crumbling down by his evil socialist ways and America will be torn apart because the big bad black man hates the country. I'll do what I always do and walk the middle line. I think the economy will improve, but it may take twice as long as Obama says. But I do think that it could plateau (more or less) sometime this year, but probably won't improve. It's not going to be a party, but it's not nearly as bad as what MSM claims.

Hey, if it really gets bad, maybe we'll sell some of our secret technology (pulse jet engines, anti-gravity generators, etc) for ... oh... $13,000,000,000,000? no? oh well, we can whore out our politicians on street corners to cover the deficit. They have the free time, it's not like they actually do anything useful anymore.

Here's a thought.

A one world Utopian government where everyone gets along.. No millitary is needed because there's not any crime or war, and we all live in perfect peace and harmony.

Wait.. that's only good in sci-fi movies strike that idea,....

I think this analyst is part of the elite who is in the know. For someone to make a specific statement such as this takes alot of balls. Think about it. Would you say something like that if you weren't sure? I know I wouldn't given the high position I'd be in. He might not have the dates 100%, but I bet he's right.

And then there's this...why would MSNBC, who is controlled by the powers that be, carry a story that has such "reckless" claims in it? What is their motive?

I'm a big believer that if someone doesn't know something is coming, they're going to put up much more of a fight because it's so new to them --unthinkable. But once people know that there's a possibility out there, they "see it coming" and when it comes, will accept it more than not seeing it come.

That's what this article is doing. Getting us used to the idea that the possibility exists of martial law, division of the Union and the loss of Alaska. The idea of martial law is everywhere now --movies, TV shows, commercials, cartoons, etc. Sounds like they're getting us used to the idea of the possibility to me.

Originally posted by vkey08
Here's a thought.

A one world Utopian government where everyone gets along.. No millitary is needed because there's not any crime or war, and we all live in perfect peace and harmony.

Wait.. that's only good in sci-fi movies strike that idea,....

Since you brought it up, there IS going to be a Utopian "government" where everyone gets along.

Daniel 7:13-14 (New International Version)

13 "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

reply to post by sadchild01


Props to sadchild01 for not taking my random rant personal! I wish I could buy you a beer or your other choice beverage.

"violent revolution"
Well over due. After the 60s and 70s, non military Americans forgot how to stand up for themselves. I am not talking about rioting so you can get a free TV. I am talking about reminding the politicos they are on OUR borrowed time. An elected official show have a total income cap and it should be enforced with required prison time if it's skirted.

"tax revolts"
Decades over due. How about we pay our taxes to the state and the state gives the federal government what is left over. LOL, I bet the feds wouldn't like THAT idea!

"individual states attempting secession"

If the feces hits the fan, keep your eye on Texas. And if Texas tries to leave the union proper, look for it's border states to join up.

In the end, I see 50 united states; with or with out blood shed.

I *DO* see that the US could agree to UN troops but the blue hats would NOT be welcome west of the Mississippi or in the ole south (the SE US).

So maybe in New England and southern California. They would feel very unwelcome and very unappreciated and they would have good reason to.

My advice to those in the military outside the US; let the US work it all out on their own. Don't share in the bloodshed that MIGHT be coming.

Here, look at this link. It's the DOW. Look at the downward slope. The *ONLY* time in history this slope has been seen in the past was in the 1930s. And what happened 10 years later?

finance.yahoo.com...^DJI#chart1:symbol=^dji;range=my;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undef ined

So maybe I am being an optimist when I say the Russians would not think of it. I have good reason. I live in the US.

My advice: start forming your clans now. Get someone in your group with access to land, someone who knows how to farm, someone who knows how to handle a fire arm (not just shoot it), ect. Start forming your clans now.

Those in the world trade center that went back to work all died. Wake up!

Here is something that is NOT on the main stream news;
Farmers rely on credit to plant their crops. And they are having a very hard time getting credit right now. Few farmers have near perfect credit.

If they can't get the credit to buy the required materials, they will not be able to plant their crops.

Need I say more?

I live in Houston. I was here when Alicia hit in 83. I was here for TS Allison. I was here when New Orleans showed up after Katrina. I was here for the near miss called Rita in which most of Houston TRIED to evacuate. And I was here for Ike in September.

I have just a tiny clue what America is in store for. Most have no clue at all.

Time to wake up!

But again, props to sadchild01. You can U2U me anytime!

Edit to add: This link puts a more serious light on the DOW's situation. Down the current downward slope on THIS chart compared to the one in the 1930s

www.nyse.tv...

[edit on 3/5/2009 by Genfinity]

Originally posted by Retseh
So having bankrupted their own country with the application of socialist dogma,

It wasn't socialist as the people did not own the means of production; ai the people didn't have much if any power. Since you seem to be referring to the leadership they had to give the people SOMETHING to keep up some semblance of a charade so they did give them many of the economic rights oft associated with socialism. Other than that it's just wrong to call either the aim or results 'socialist' or even communist.

and then switched to evil capitalism to recover from their living nightmare,

What living nightmare? Compared to what standard was living in the USSR a living nighmare for the overwhelming majority? Somalie during famine's? What?

plus losing the Cold War and seeing their country broken up into little ungovernable pieces,

The USSR did not lose the cold war and it could not lose the cold war in any way but armed conflict. It was not 'bankrupt' and 'cvil strife' did not bring it to a fall.

The USSR was not a 'country' to be broken up in the first place. Sure they were little dictatoryships under almost total control by the PolitBuro but they at worse become 'republics'; never part of Russia herself. As for ungovernable what is ungovernable about either the Russian Federation or almost all the former republics?

the Russians are now predicting the downfall of the United States.

One Russian seems to believe that and in my opinion his just about as misinformed ( seems more like ignorance but let me play 'nice') about America as you are of Russia.

I am strangely reminded of the Monty Python scene where the black knight, now missing his arms and legs tells King Arthur "ok, let's call it a draw".

The problem being that Russia was not disarmed at the end of the so called cold war. In fact for much of the early 90's the US in fact disarmed themselves faster , and from a lower level, than the Russians did. To this day the Russians maintains strategic nuclear forces that are in no obvious way inferior. In fact in many regards it's more survivable and with larger deployed throw weights...

If that is 'losing' a war who needs to win?

Stellar

Since when is russia a reliable source of intel seriously some of the threads that start here are absurd.

Originally posted by Genfinity
Or will the most armed nation on the planet surrender without firing a single shot?

Having guns is great but as always using them when someone is shooting back is very, very different. As for 'most armed' nation there are plenty of guns but per capita the Swiss are certainly have a far larger percentage of citizens which are actually trained in the use of weapons.

Remember, in the Middle East, you have peasants and militants. If the US has to defend it's own land, THE ENTIRE NATION is militant.

Actually after the US and Yemen ( very small country, few people) , Iraq is the country with the highest ratio of weapons to citizens. This basically means that even a very well armed citizenry are not as much use against modern armed forces as is commonly suggested.

Granted, a 357 is no match for an AK47 but still, who wants that headache?

Who cares when you just level the house with a tank shell or a few rpg's? Who enters a house to get shot with a 357?

Seriously, if the Russians try to take Alaska, we will nuke them. They will nuke us back and, for the few that survive in Australia, nothing but food and water will matter after wards.

Nuclear war ( even a full scale one) wont destroy the planet and wont kill but a small percentage of it's people. The Russians , or other nuclear power, wont try to take Alaska BEFORE the nuclear exchange.

Will Japan take Hawaii? Are you kidding me? Should we even go there?

Silly article's makes for generally silly discussions. The Japanese certainly have a strong enough navy so it would come down to the question of what happened to the American navy for the to be able to take over hawai if they could ever be made to care to try...

Will Mexico take Texas? Maybe in the 1800s. But as long as there are nukes in Texas, Mexico will NOT be interested. When Texas starts shooting back at Mexican militants that cross over, those illegal cross overs will cease.

Maybe if the author included the fact that these things will happen after a nuclear exchange of sorts ( perhaps just jericho style plots) it would seem more believable? Who will invade or attempt to break away US states when they still have their nuclear arms and or large active conventional forces?

Machine guns mounted on a pickup versus a Blackhawk or Apache. There isn't a Mexican in Mexico that wants a piece of THAT action.

I suspect not but since Apache's don't spend much time in the air on any given day ( measured in tens of minutes) they are not the omnipotent threat you make them.

Sure, Mexico can retaliate with fighter jets. Enter USAF's F16s.
Can the US take on the entire planet? No but if it comes to that, the US will make this one radiated planet.

Radiation isn't anywhere near the threat it's commonly painted to be and the US will not attack 'the world' with weapons it desperately needs against Russia and it's allies.

Mutual Assured Destruction.

Which were never based in reality. Mutual destruction were never assured or meant to do anything but pacify a very ignorant public.

Every economy in the world is plugged into the US economy within 2 degrees. If the US falls apart, it's not the end for the US. It's THE end. For everybody.

Without the US to terrorize the world economically and politically the trade gaps would quickly be plugged or shifted to other countries. There are vast sums of money that can be invested in either other countries or your own to create consumption. The myth of the omnipotent American consumer will come to a bad end of these years.

If the US stops exporting food...
If we stop giving humanitarian, economic, and military aid to other nations.....

They wouldn't need the aid or food if not for the economic and political world system the US national security state is defending by force of arms.

US stops giving aid to Israel. Arabs invade. Israeli nukes fly. Oil exports out of the middle east cease entirely.

Israel is far too powerful to be invaded today by a mere alliance of arab countries who contain people who are by no means interested in another war with a local superpower. Israeli nukes can not and will not fly unless so attacked as Russia have mutual defense treaties with Iran and Syria. The Israeli's may be many things but i don't expect it's suicidal.

Careful what you wish for.

Careful about what you think you know.

There are going to be some changes for sure. But this I guarantee, if they try to take democracy away from Americans, Americans will stand up and take this country back with deadly, bloody force.

Europeans know far more about democracy and it shows. When Americans figure out that what they have isn't democracy perhaps the various states might look for help eslewhere? Americans , like the rest of the world, want security and while admittedly they wont leave the union as long as it can provide them some that may not be the case forever. Then again i don't seriously believe that the Us will become fractured in any way unless it's done so by war and even then it will be mostly due to a lack of means of maintain communication and transport.

And if it's on our soil, you can throw the Geneva convention rules out the window. If the middle east thinks they know what torture is, they have never talked to a drunk American hillbilly.

Which would be as likely to shoot FBI/FEMA agents as people of middle eastern descent. What you don't seem to understand about the 'rednecks' is that they want to be left alone by EVERYONE that attempts to tell them how and or what to do.

If your an American hillbilly that likes to get drunk, you know what I am talking about.

Sure, lol.

Japan and Germany talked about attacking the US during WWII. They were going to divide it along the Mississippi River.
ppttt, lol! Very few Germans and Japanese would have made it home alive.

Sure, and France, Britain and the low countries were never supposed to lose a war against Germany back in 1940. The only thing i am sure of is that you don't know history and don't understand that the American people will not show their government any more loyalty than it has shown them when their lives and homes depend on it.

If it gets so bad that Texas wants to leave the US, things will get interesting. Barring that, America will be fine in the end.
I can see things getting so bad that a few states slide away from the union for a temporary amount of time. And it may or may not take the a civil war to bring them back in line.

As i said i just don't see this happening in peace time; the Pentagon is as likely to bomb Texas into submission as it was to invade Iraq based on a lie.

But divided or united, these 50 states will defend each other from ANY invading nation, including the UN.
And so will our nukes.

Patriotic feelings that are easily defended when no defense has ever been required before. The only nation that threatens the territorial integrity of the US is Russia/China alliance and frankly they are doing a bang up job of destroying America ( with the help of it's government and corporations) without having to resort to open war.

That's why other nations didn't jump on Russia when Russia broke up.

No one, but the US, could have jumped on Russia whether they had nuclear weapons or not. Please stop confusing the breakup of the USSR with a breakup of Russia.

If the US starts falling apart, no smart nation will jump on us either. Sorry for the chest thumping.

Peace until war.

As i said i don't see it just 'falling apart' and as for the after effects anything is possible when a potentially prostate North American regions starts attempting to come to the best possible settlement with Russia for fear of further violence now that there is no more central government to stop them.

Stranger things have happened ( American civil wars, both of them) when outside powers had far fewer recourses to visiting violence over a distance.

Stellar