Continental Crash 3407 - A Conspiracy? - 9/11 Widow - met w/ Obama Dead onboard

I realize the conspiracy folks won't listen to anything that does not bear out the conspiracy (as proven in this thread a number of times) but there are also vertical drafts and wind shear to think about...especially considering the way the weather was. I've been on a plane that hit a vertical draft and dropped over a thousand feet in seconds.

IMO - Last night was a very tragic for all of us "Truth" seekers. She was an elegant bullhorn for our cause. My heart goes out to family and friends of the crash, and whether or not it was intentional we need to pick up where she left off. I can say I strongly believe she would have wanted that.

To any family members or friends of the plane crash who might read this, this is my opionion as I know nothing of the situation. Maybe the Pilot was suicidal and thought of a sadistac way out.? I doubt ice build up was the main culprit, as the plane would have been de-iced before departure. Even if that was forgotten, the non-response of the pilots is very odd.

I'm willing to wait for the final investigation before I decide to accuse our goverment of murder... like too many are eager and willing to do.

If the plane was coming in for the landing, they could easily have not realized how close they were to the ground, if it were foggy, cloudy and snowy. Frozen flaps or who knows what else, and before they can even call a mayday, they are on the ground.

As far as taking attention away from the stimulus plan, you have to realize that unlike this and other conspiracy boards, most of Joe Public thinks this is a good idea, and will get everyone out of the recession. So news of this passing would be GOOD for the government, not bad. If people think they are getting anything back, they are for it. Tuition credit? Housing credit? Money back? Yup.. pass the thing! So... no, I don't buy it's to take attention away from the stimulus. People ARE thinking creatures, they are not going to go 'doo-dee-doo'... and just forget about the economic crisis because a plane crashed.

Originally posted by Komodo
reply to post by questioningall

 

yea, something is a miss. Here's why, and someone that is a pilot can correct me to the 'T" if they'd like. So, don't flame, just the details.

FIRST off, the pilot will be in contract with the tower. IF he/she(they), might see an issue, they can 'usually' radio the tower on conditions outside and the reactions of the plane IF they can NOT stay on the vector they are given BY the tower. Being that it's a turbo, it will probably mean it's instrumented, meaning, they don't have to 'litterly' see outside to fly; because they have instruments to nav by.

They did report icing on the wings and windshield one minute before ATC could not contact them anymore.

SECOND. If they were at 16,000ft, yes, it will be cold, but, as stated above, they should have been in contact with the tower because of the vector they had. They could have dropped 5k and gotten out of it IMO.

You, nor I at this point, don't know what the freezing levels were. They were given instruction to descend to 2,300 and were at that altitude prior to the crash in 3 miles visibility in snow and mist. Ice conditions.

THIRD. Prop's don't just 'nose dive' when they are out of power, they will still have some lift to them and continue to glide a ways, I think a stnd prop can glide for couple miles before it will no long be able to gain lift, in which the pilot should be in contact with the tower for a place to land; just because the engine quits doesn't mean no contact with tower. There's still a radio.

If the control surfaces froze and there was severe icing, you betcha they can drop like a rock, especially if they start oscillating pitch up, then down. The induced drag is horrific. Not to mention ice buildup on the leading edge of the wings spoils the smooth airflow over the wing, significantly reducing or ELIMINATING lift. No lift, down you go. And glide ratios are only good in specified conditions and ice ain't one of them.

FOURTH. Maintance records and a must to fly. PM's must be recorded and logged per FAA rules.

Severe icing has NOTHING to do with maintenance. Ice doesn't care. Furthermore, the aircraft would not be granted airworthiness if were not maintained and operated by the FAR's. Any plane can be perfect mechanically and still encounter severe icing thatcan and will drop it out of the sky.

so yea, something doesn't add up .. does it. That's a starting point and you can go from there.

It an awful coincidence and that's it.

Liscensed Pilot's, feel free to correct me

I hope I cleared some of that up.

[edit on 13-2-2009 by Freenrgy2]

Originally posted by Spaxz
I doubt ice build up was the main culprit, as the plane would have been de-iced before departure. Even if that was forgotten, the non-response of the pilots is very odd.

The plane began icing upon descent. At that point the pilots were basically trying to fly a rock. I doubt they would have time to call a mayday.

Firstly, a tragic event with so many lost My thoughts and prayers are with the families of those who died.

Can I ask? was the whole passenger manifesto broadcast or published?

If so was there any hint of any other noteworthy passengers?

I always like to look on the periferal of events when I seem to be getting directed to someone elses point of interest. It pays to sometimes use the extreme wide angle lens instead of zooming into someone elses target.

Respects

reply to post by questioningall


The odds of dying in a plane crash are 1 in 10,000,000......I guess the odds of a husband and wife dying in unrelated plane crashes is 10,000,000 multiplied by 10,000,000 (at least....because the husband was killed on the "ground"...I'm guessing much less chance)...but lets say ten million squared......

so 100,000,000,000,000

phew..two very unlucky people...or not?

Anybody good at statistics out there?

[edit on 13-2-2009 by kiwifoot]

A full list of the victims of Continental Connection Flight 3407's deadly crash has not been released, but airline officials, relatives and friends are identifying some of them.

Perhaps best known was Beverly Eckert of Stamford, Connecticut. Her husband died in the World Trade Center on 9/11 and she became an activist for victims' families.

They also include one of the world's leading experts on genocide in Rwanda. Alison Des Forges was a senior adviser for Human Rights Watch's Africa division. She was on her way home from a trip to Europe, where she briefed diplomats on the current situation in the region.

Coleman Mellett and Gerry Niewood were members of jazz musician Chuck Mangione's band. Mellett was a guitarist and Niewood played saxophone.

Maddy Loftus of Parsippany, N.J., was headed for a reunion with her former teammates on the Buffalo State women's ice hockey team. Loftus' father is a Continental pilot. Source

Hope this helps.

I don't know if any of you noticed, but after hearing the audio transcript of Flight 3407, I found something unusual. Have a close listen to around 1 minute, 3 seconds of the tape (the last dialogue of the pilot) and you will notice that the woman sounds like she's crying or holding back tears. Maybe because this was all planned and she knew the fate of her and the passengers in that plane. It sounds to me like her voice is cracking as well, this all just seems too weird.

Okay people listen up. I think a lot of you are jumping to conclusions before doing any research. I am a pilot, and own a small plane. After talking with several other pilots, I think there is a reasonable answer fro what happened.

Firstly, I listened to the tapes of the ATC controler this morning before they made a transcript. Impossible? Not at all. The Buffalo tower records all the ATC traffic, and it is pubished automatically to LiveATC.

The reason they did not have transcripts of the flight that went into the Hudson was because JFK does not record ATC for some reason. So they did not get the transcript till the voice data recorder was recovered.

So those saying it is impssoble to have those yet, it is not.

Secondly, I live about 100 miles from Buffalo. The weather was awefull last night. Winds in excess of 35MPH, snow and freezing rain showers.

Some have said why did they not decendout of the freezing.

They were flying IFR, on approach for landing. That means to stay clear of other planes they must obey the ATC insructions. Another pilot had reported Rime Iceing from 3000FT to aournd 10K feet I believe, so they were in the thick of it. The plane was designed for moderate iceing, as most are.

They were about 4 miles out, on ILS approach, at 2300ft during the last radio call. For those saying that there is no way it could have been freezing at that altitude, you are wrong. I am not sure what the ground temperature was, but lets say 35*F, just above freezing. Temperature drops about 4.4*F per 1000ft. altitude increase. So at 2300, the temp would be about 26*F, well below freezing. Plus the ceilings were low, so that puts them in freezing clouds.

Here is the most likely scenario. The Dash 8 has a T-tail configuration. It is more susceptible to freezing rain. A similar configuration of plane is no longer in use in parts of Europe for this very reason.

If they did not have the tail heaters on, or they were not functioning, Ice would build up on the tail. More than likely they were on an automatic ILS approach and descent util just before laning. The autopilot was correcting for the ice by giving more elevator. Speed began to slow. The autopilot came to a point it could no longer correct for the tail ice. A T-tail plane can do what is called a tail stall. Lift is still being generated by the wings, but the tail looses its lift. This causes an abrupt nose down situation.

Nose down at 2300ft. and probably 200mph, would give about 10 seconds or less before impact. Not nearly enough time to recover, especially with tail ice.

I can't say for sure this is the exact reason, but right now, it is one that makes sense. It was a very unfortinate accident.

reply to post by darkelf


Much appreciated, thanks. I await further names when they are published.
It does no harm to look at the big picture even if it sometimes leads you up the garden path.

Respects

[edit on 13-2-2009 by captiva]

reply to post by KnowMore


Thank you. You said that much more eloquently than I could. This is what I've been trying to say.

Originally posted by KnowMore
The reason they did not have transcripts of the flight that went into the Hudson was because JFK does not record ATC for some reason. So they did not get the transcript till the voice data recorder was recovered.

Not that I doubt you, but how is it possible that JFK doesn't record ATC?

You may want to wait until the smoke has cleared from the crash site before the tired old WTC conspiracy theories get dusted off and wheeled out again for yet more public humiliation.

I'd rather be the first with condolences, than the first with a conspiracy thread in this instance.

reply to post by Retseh


Although it is important to question everything, there's a time for questions and a time for condolences. Since the only thing hinky about this crash is the length of time it took to hit the MSM, I'm going for condolences.

she 's been mentioned on the news here in the UK about her being a 9/11 widow, for the plane to just drop out of the skies like that and in NY, very strange.

I noticed this in the first thread on the subject and pointed it out. Looks like you dug a little deeper. Here is something of interest I found:

Beverly Eckert says:

I've chosen to go to court rather than accept a payoff from the 9/11 victims compensation fund. Instead, I want to know what went so wrong with our intelligence and security systems that a band of religious fanatics was able to turn four U.S passenger jets into an enemy force, attack our cities and kill 3,000 civilians with terrifying ease.

I want to know why two 110-story skyscrapers collapsed in less than two hours and why escape and rescue options were so limited. I am suing because unlike other investigative avenues, including congressional hearings and the 9/11 commission, my lawsuit requires all testimony be given under oath and fully uses powers to compel evidence.

The victims fund was not created in a spirit of compassion. Rather, it was a tacit acknowledgement by Congress that it tampered with our civil justice system in an unprecedented way. Lawmakers capped the liability of the airlines at the behest of lobbyists who descended on Washington while the Sept. 11 fires still smoldered.

Source

Link to my original post


Interesting.....

[edit on 13-2-2009 by N3krostatic]

Just out of curiousity, why are there so many debunkers on ATS? A conspiracy board with so many people that just think that conspiracies do not exist. That makes no sense? It almost seems like a conspiracy!

[edit on 13-2-2009 by Shades1035]

Originally posted by McJean
There also saying that Airlines companies from U.S.A, Japen Australien, Scandinavian, Austria and Canada have had trouble with this plane the last 6 years and the most common errors is something with the landingwheels, nearly all forced landing the last 5-6 years have been trouble with landingwheels.

Twice it have landed without wheels unfolding

Hope you could use the information, and personal i can tell that i would never take a dashplane would rather cross the ocean on a surfingboard.

Acually the problem with all those gears were with the cupiling rod of some sorts? (sorry I'm not my self right now so I forgot the name that I was told. ). The problem was that it was corrodeing and not allowing the gear to function properly. The problem has been resolved for a year now. I know this cause my father is a landing gear inspector at Goodrich in Oakville, Ontario. He's been there for atleast 20 yrs, and had but in alot of overtime (70hrs a week) to correct the problem. What is wierd is the plane was a 2008 model!! It still had the "new plane smell"

I think this was a sad incident and my thoughts and prayers to the people of this disaster. Although I would've loved her continued support in uncovering what really happened with 9/11 I don't think this event is related to a government cover up.

Unfortunately, bad things happen and in this case a tragedy occurred to a woman who has already experienced a horrible one. Very sad news...