I Know WHY The World Is So Sick

This is a very interesting idea, i don't believe in an immortal soul myself but thats by the by,

If the 3billion people that have not lived before (me as i have no past life powers in my mind) are new souls where did we come from?

I was talking with my brother today about the interesting fact that the majority of people who get regressed to a past life 'remember' being cleopatra - infact most people relate to a famous person or two when they're regressed - could the new souls have been created by a splitting of already living souls? Many of the people that come up often are very mentally active people, powerful and wise -often they're people with 'split personalitys' or many facets to their character -cleo being a prime example.

Maybe a strong soul is capable of mitosis? maybe upon death the diffrent parts of someones mind move away from each other? interesting.

I have thought of this before, but never to such an extent.

I completely agree with you on this concept.

Imagine now that you are in a town, and that town is the only town in existance on this planet. Everyone there has senior positions in the town to make it run smoothly and efficiently. Say there are 1000 people. Now, enter 3,500,000 (yes 3.5 million) 5 year olds who will take over some old jobs and be working on new ones. It would be a complete zoo with chaos everywhere.
They would probably look at the older souls/people as being in the way and wrong. (More of them than the older ones so chaos is the new order)

I also disagree with the poster who said by now karmic cycles should have been resolved. I think the whole karmic cycle was intended to keep us enslaved on this planet as 3rd dimensional beings so that we can be in complete ignorance (The philosophical story of the people growing up in the cave comes to mind) of what is really out there. I also think the astral plane/real/dimension is also an illusionary dimension created to help recycle souls back into the physical dimension.

Do you know all the karmic debts you need to repay? All the people in this planet (They should all be alive right now, no?) that owe you or you owe them "debt"? I sure as hell don't. The whole karmic cycle is a scam in my opinion to keep you coming back here.

I can imagine going up there to "the light" and being asked, so did you solve your karmic debt with some lady named Magdelyn? You know you owe her for killing her 15 past lives ago. Oh btw she lived in Australia, a place you've never been to in this current life, so I guess you screwed up again! You need to go back there and fix your debts!

Please.

This subject leads to all kinds of interesting theories.

For example, I used to have a little theory that some people lived, from life to life, reincarnating forward in time, and others lived reincarnating backward in time. That could explain why some people are 'future-oriented' in their outlook, and others are 'past-oriented'.

A refinement of that theory: perhaps, we are all one soul, in many incarnations. Some of us are living on a series of lives that extends forward in time, to the end of the universe, others are living on a series that progresses to the past, towards the Big Bang. At the Bang and the Crunch, or the mortal instances tangent to them, we 'reverse', and start another series. Round and round, a single being, exploring all aspects of 'being human'.

Perhaps this could explain the push into chaos, in a world with so many incarnations. It could, perhaps, be impossible for any two people to, at a particular point in time, maintain the same state of 'personhood' - a sort of a quantum exclusion principle. Thus, the more people there are in the world at a time, the more we must delve into the 'chaotic regions' of possible human nature, each to find our own uniqueness.

Very nice theory.

I'm personally in agreement with some of the posters before me. However, perhaps we can dismiss the fact that rocks have spirits. Theoretically if I look at a mountain then that one, large piece of rock could have a soul but what happens when that mountain is eroded? Does the mountain lose a piece of its soul or is a new one born? It is a paradox we can't solve so I'm setting that out of the equation. (It's my belief that stones resonate with the energies of souls that came in contact with the stone, or in the case of limestone the stone could still have energy influenced by the beings that died to form the stone, sorry off topic...)

Animals on the other hand have consciousness, they are aware of the stimulus surrounding them. They live one life and do not physically exist in this world anymore, their soul leaves and reincarnates (applying the same 3 generalizations you applied in the OP). When we look at the numbers of wildlife on the planet now compared to thousands of years ago the numbers are lower; I don't have a link for this, I'm hoping everyone here has heard the terms "endangered species" and "extinction". What if these "new" souls are just the reincarnations of the animals we've destroyed? Those souls have to go somewhere and we don't have anything hunting us right now... except one another. If my species killled your species, wouldn't you like to see what it's like to have that kind of power? Wouldn't it almost be Karmic to be given the chance to prevent that destruction from occurring to another species?

Recently i got the VERY STRANGE thought, that i must actually live EVERY life on this planet

Why not? I have so often the feeling, that i know someone so damn well, that i somehow think i speak to myself. If i have eternities time, then there is time to become everyone, and not only on this planet...

That is so weird, and frightening. But i actually think its possible...

Our world is breaking apart - war, deceit, greed, murder, oppression, materialism, etc. I now know why. The world population has risen in leaps and bounds over the last few decades, resulting in a world populated by more inexperienced, self-serving souls THAN EVER BEFORE.

reply to post by Cythraul


Given that there are probably innumerable planets like Earth with human type inhabitants, I don't see why Earth's souls are limited to Earth. Aren't we to progress as souls? And if so isn't the Earth experience rather limiting. The preponderance of people here on Earth are in relative mizery while few are experiencing bliss. There has got to be many planets better than this!

Your young soul/ old soul sinario doesn't explain why some souls are just downright evil. It does seem like evil souls exist and that some have little chance of improving. Matter of fact Earth has a lot of souls like that, unfortunately! Perhaps they are attracted to this place or perhaps this is sort of a prison for evil souls

Just some thoughts!

reply to post by Cythraul


Huh... fascinating line of thinking. I have never been given over to the whole reincarnation idea until recently (mostly, because I was raised as it was "taboo" to believe such "nonsense." )

I subscribe to the Wisdom of the Tanakh and amazingly, what most see as a physical resurrection (in which they translate that over to the NT as such) resognates in my "ears" of being the birth of the soul after the spirit has gone through reincarnations.

Where I differ in thinking is that it is not the soul that is reincarnated.. the spirits have been gaining the experiences of lifetimes. The End is meant to be a time of travail to birth the souls... some will be born in Wisdom/Understaning... and other will born of pride and contempt. A soul is the finished product (whether that finished product is good or evil is determined by the person's spirit and their incubation period).. thus, the end.

So, this is the womb... earth.
When a woman is giving birth, the contractions are what causes the baby to be born... thus, we are in the birthing process even now...

Isaiah 53: 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many...


Daniel 12:
2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (the wheat vs. the chaffe)

3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.


Daniel 11:
32And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33And they that understand among the people shall instruct many...


And in the following it declares that yes, there is most definitely more to be born of this "generation" (meaning there have been generations before us.. but don't think generation in the single lifetime veiw.. think lifetimeS concept).

Isaiah 54 (this is after the Suffering servant chapter.. the birthing process of those whose face is toward G.d):

1Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.

2Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;

3For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

4Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

5For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

6For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.

7For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

8In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.

11O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.

12And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones.

13And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

14In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.

15Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.

16Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

17No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.


See, most see the G.d of the Tanakh to be an awful and hateful G.d and that really has more to do with the contempt they have been building within their own spirit all this time and thus, they will be birthing a soul that is set against the Creator... who *is* good and just asked that we trust the process. Personally, I see great Love and Wisdom.

The whole of the Tanakh is speaking of this. Isaiah says over and over that the LORD did not speak this in secret and that it has all been declared from the beginning to the end... that all the things spoken of from the foundation are being created now. Most just choose to judge it rather than facing it.. because in facing the Word, you will come to see exactly what is happening... and when you can see what is happening and how it will play out, you see there is nothing to fear at all. (and nothing to question.. which is why He said seek His knowledge and He will give understanding).


Isaiah 48:
3I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass.

4Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass;

5I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them.

6Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.

7They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.


Isaiah 45:
9Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

10Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?

11Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

12I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

13I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.

18For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

19I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

20Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

21Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

22Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

23I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.


Anyway, since you were so curious, just thought I would share what is obviously going on. There is a great many things to confirm that yes, we have been reincarnated spirits and that this is the birthing process for the soul.

I think the first thing that struck me that this is what is spoken of in the Tanakh (the incubation period of the spirits and the birth of the souls) was when I came across a passage in one of the testimonies that talked about Joshua being brought forth as a spirit and the ones who brought him forth were told to change his blood stained white garments to those of fresh clean linens... and the allegory was so completely clear concerning what it was referring to.

Though I had wondered, that was the light bulb for me and that is when I came to see the whole of the Tanakh as an allegory... though I read it now as the True Word that it is. Hope you don't mind if I shared my view on it with you. the Tanakh is quite beautiful and very telling if, again, people would quit being fearful, angry, or dogmatic about it.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by justamomma]

reply to post by plumranch


"Good" and "Evil" are a creation of man. What is good to me could be painful to you. What I enjoy could make you miserable. It's open ended. There are good and poor decisions, or ignorance, to explain the "evil" people.

It's a great theory, but I don't quite agree with you.

Souls come from all over the Galaxy and Universe to experience life here (from other dimensions). They know what they're getting into, that they can might on negative karma that will need to be worked out in more lifetimes on Earth. But that produces a soul that advances faster than other souls who choose not to incarnate on this specific planet.

Take a gander at this body of work. It'll blow your mind. It's full of scientific information and studies from physicists and people from all kinds of science backgrounds about the planet we're living on, it's history and where we're going. Lots of stuff about the Great Pyramids, if you're wondering.

Start with the Intro:
divinecosmos.com...

Looks like I'm gonna need to 'up my game' to keep up with this one. Thanks for all the replies. But I'd just like to clarify that my theory is all of about about 2 hours old and therefore I don't claim to have all of the details and connotations worked out. Actually, I was kind of hoping you'd all help me with that and so far you've done just that. Fascinating stuff

Originally posted by Wachstum
So, OP, during your number-juggling you totally forgot that no soul is born and no soul will ever die.

[...]
Got my point?

I'm afraid that's where our (current) beliefs differ. If no soul is born, then the only explanation for how Earth is home to 7,000 times more souls than 52,000 years ago is either: a) Intergalactic transmigration of souls, or b) souls split into multiple 'child' souls, as one excellent post above suggested. b) is a completely new theory to me so I'm going to have to chew it over. a) relies on notion that as our Earth population increases, populations elsewhere are decreasing, proportionately. I'm undecided on that.

reply to post by M157yD4wn

Interesting. I'm curious about this idea of 'all souls originating from the source'. It's not new to me, but I'd never considered the prospect that 'the source' might be able to divide souls into small denominations of itself. i.e., each of us now represents one 6,744,926,015th of the source whereas we originally represented one millionth of it. But this then begs the question: If we are a smaller fraction of the source, are we each less spiritually 'potent' than in the beginning? This may explain why, as some people believe, we've lost our psychic, telepathic, magickal etc abilities. hmmm

Originally posted by Senatsu Sakizakura
You are only talking about one part of this «why». As you don't want to «waste time debating the credibility of these beliefs»

Sorry Senatsu Sakizakura. I respect your right to believe or disbelieve, but debating the basis upon which this theory is built will only ruin the thread. There are plenty of threads for people to debate the existence of souls/reincarnation.

Originally posted by Senatsu Sakizakura
... So the question is, what about the second part? Why is the world, *really*, so «sick»?

As previously stated, "sick" wasn't the optimum word, just the most concise. Do you not view the world as intensely unjust, ignorant and cruel? This should be beyond debate in my opinion. If you see the world as a happy place, again, you probably won't find this thread very worthwhile.

Originally posted by Senatsu Sakizakura
Do you consider yourself a «young soul», or an «old soul»? If the latter, what would you have learnt? Or is this «unconscious», and «you don't quite know how to explain it»?

I consider myself an old soul - though perhaps not extremely old. I've been told as much. The reason I believe myself to be at least partially experienced is that I've discovered a lot of truths in my 25 years. With regards to reincarnation, I tend to accept 'discovery' as 'rediscovery' (of things you've learnt previously).

OP:

I don't beleive that one form of life is inherantly "higher" or "lower" than another. I think that is just something we perceive as humans.

For instance... we may perceive animals as "lower" life forms, because the cannot speak as we do and do not display the same human tendancies (which ironically are typically very bad things--the instinct to fight, murder, destroy our environments to the point of theatening ourselves. We consider the lack of these things in animals to make them less than us... but I digress.) and we may perceive alien entities as "higher" than us, if they actually showed their faces.

This is why I do not beleive the indigo child stuff... I think that is really just lazy parenting. Even if it were true, soul that is "pure" because it is young is not the same as a soul that has gone through many experiences and has become wise.

But stepping back from that I think the spirit is the same in all of them, but it differs somewhat depending on what kind of animal it steps into.

Think of it this way. If you have a blue light bulb, and you look at it alone, it is blue. But if you see it through a red film, it will look purple, a yellow film, and it will look green, and so on. I think it is the same for how the soul appears.

So in that sense, I think where a soul incarnates, and into what form, really depends on what the "blue" person needs to learn, and to some extent, just what he wants to do.

[edit on 3-2-2009 by asmeone2]

[edit on 3-2-2009 by asmeone2]

Originally posted by NatureBoy
could the new souls have been created by a splitting of already living souls?

Thank you for that. Something I hadn't considered. It's possible, particularly of you subscribe to the belief that we're all facets of the same universal consciousness. It could be an excellent alternative to my original theory, but as stated in a post shortly above this one, a consequence of this could be that we're each smaller fractions of earlier souls, or the original source, and thus we're still carrying less 'inside knowledge' than an earlier soul. Perhaps both are true, in an extremely abstract kind of way.

[edit on 3/2/2009 by Cythraul]

reply to post by Cythraul


that would read more like tau. essentially, the further back you go to the first ancestors, the more complete and righteous they are. the idea that all things degrade OVER TIME. but that's just the 3d container -- ain't so sure what it carries degrades. how do you degrade something eternal? it can't devolve. it can't evolve. UNLESS, it chooses to get put in a time loop or something.

From when I was only a small child, I used to view space as one would view the ocean. That there would be all sorts of organisms floating around, some incredibly dangerous, like a pool of sharks, others more exotic and beautiful, and a few who could communicate with us a similar way.

To me it was an amazingly beautiful and exciting place full of mystery and tales wanting to be told. A bubble of infinite potential.

Those ideas started to fade with the constant stress from school mixed with toxic foods screwing with my mind.

To this day I still see the Universe and all of us with infinite potential, to me this world we exist in is no different than our dreams. Life repeats itself in patterns, you just got to know where to look and keep an open perspective by having a desire to understand.

The world is sick because we've forgotten who and what we are and all we have as guides are the memories of war and bloodshed spilled on this land haunting us until we as a whole come to understand our past.

Have a nice day Ats

Originally posted by plumranch
Given that there are probably innumerable planets like Earth with human type inhabitants, I don't see why Earth's souls are limited to Earth. Aren't we to progress as souls? And if so isn't the Earth experience rather limiting.

Limiting, only if you're sure that...

Originally posted by plumranch
There has got to be many planets better than this!

There may well be. I'm not for a moment suggesting there aren't. BUT, I'll need a little more educating. Perhaps my souls needs a few more lifetimes to really understand what lies beyond our atmosphere .

Originally posted by plumranch
Your young soul/ old soul sinario doesn't explain why some souls are just downright evil.

Not yet it doesn't. But then, isn't evil just a total 'self-serving' attitude. Almost every evil act, in some way, can be attributed to a relentless form of selfishness. Selfishness, to me, would be one of the major symptoms of spiritual naivety.

Originally posted by asmeone2
I don't beleive that one form of life is inherantly "higher" or "lower" than another. I think that is just something we perceive as humans.

Couldn't agree more with your sentiment. We're not higher, lower, better or worse (and certainly no higher than animals), but I do believe some of us have been on this carnal wheel longer than others. Doesn't make us better souls, just older. Furthermore, a bright spark of a soul, in the right situations, might learn more in 3 lifetimes than another soul in 30. Who knows?

Originally posted by Cythraul

Originally posted by asmeone2
I don't beleive that one form of life is inherantly "higher" or "lower" than another. I think that is just something we perceive as humans.

Couldn't agree more with your sentiment. We're not higher, lower, better or worse (and certainly no higher than animals), but I do believe some of us have been on this carnal wheel longer than others. Doesn't make us better souls, just older. Furthermore, a bright spark of a soul, in the right situations, might learn more in 3 lifetimes than another soul in 30. Who knows?

Ultimately I think it comes down to how eager the soul in question is to actually learn and progress. Just as there are some people who never get over trauma in their lives because they can use that as a way to leech attention, I imagine there are some souls who are, if you will "habitually young."

reply to post by Cythraul


Nice theory, however you are forgetting one thing - Souls do not incarnate in linear time. That is, Souls incarnate to whatever point in history best serves the lessons they wish to learn. Time only exists in this 3rd Dimension. For Souls, there is no past, present or future - there are only "classrooms".

You are right the about the world being sick, however this is due to a completely different thing - Earth's vibration is rising, and most humans cannot adjust their own vibration in sync.

I call this the Psychobiological Effects of Ascension.

Why assume that just because there's six billion people on this planet, that there must be six billion souls. For all you know we might all share the same soul.