Battleships VS. Aircraft Carriers

Originally posted by devilwasp
no they cant sneak up but THEY did sail through ur battle group unchallanged
and i doubt an aircraft carrier can withstand a frigate firing all its weapons on it

Maybe because they let it?

A frigate would be hard pressed to be able to sink a carrier. Think about the number of compartments on a carrier and how many you would have to flood to sink it.

they didnt let it get in
it just went in on its own acord and sunk it in the war game
also it could just aim for the aircraft areas aka the bit underneath the flight deck

Baah. The greatest carrier, in my opinion, was a combination of both... the USS Midway (CV-41). Battleship hull. Carrier features. Granted, it was designed from WWII specs, and probably wouldn't hold up to a modern 'close combat' situation...

I'd have to vote on carriers. Come on now... the carriers have the aircraft, the range to strike at battleships, all with the carrier being beyond the horizon, out of sight and range of anything on the battleship (except, of course, of cruise missiles, but carriers have defenses for that, too).

Carriers, to me, are the best we have... our entire military operations could be based and fought off of carriers. Now, pit a stealth sub against a carrier, that'd be different... but for over all military need and versatility, go carrier.

Originally posted by devilwasp
they didnt let it get in
it just went in on its own acord and sunk it in the war game
also it could just aim for the aircraft areas aka the bit underneath the flight deck

There is no way that it could have approached without being detected. Not to a carrier. In order to get to it, the frigate would have had to go through other ships in the battle group. If those other ships could not have handled it, they would have told that carrier to run, which it would have done. There is no frigate in the world that can keep up with a carrier.

Plus, the area where you are talking about aiming is among the most heavily armored onboard.

A frigate, on its own, could not sink a carrier before getting sunk itself.

I am not trying to be mean or rude, I am just telling you the truth.

A naval war game... on my second ship, the SS Jouett (CG-29), we had to, by ourselves, get to, and 'sink' a carrier (I believe it was the Independance). Our captian was given free range, just as long as it was during this one week.

The captian waited for a storm, and boy, did he get one; apparently, the carrier captian was wanting one too... he hid in the storm's center.

We rode along the edge of the storm at night, the waves confusing any RADAR searches. We were all under 'Lights Out'. I think we rode the storm for a good couple hours before we headed full steam into the storm. Using our own radar and helicopter, we had the carrier spotted. Our helicopter was 'shot' down, we had F-18's scrambled towards us... and as our missiles were 'fired', we ourselves were 'sinking' due to the Hornets.

Needless to say... our little guided missile cruiser was sunk, but so was the carrier. Seems our missiles did the job.

In case no one knows, the USS Jouett had a missile system similiar to a revolver... the sixteen missiles were heald in two drums (eight per drum), and could fire off in rapid succession.

I love my carriers, but man... until you've been on a 700 foot boat doing a rapid evasive/sharp turn into a storm, water washing over the top... WOW.

I love my carriers, but man... until you've been on a 700 foot boat doing a rapid evasive/sharp turn into a storm, water washing over the top... WOW.

What year was this in?

I have been through two hurricanes while on a destroyer (500 feet). I feel your pain.

Umm... I think that war game was in... ohh... 1992 or 1993. Probably late 1992, Pacific. Wasn't a hurrican though, just a big storm. Cool, someone knows how wild the waters can get!

Was in a typhoon (or whatever a hurrican is called in the Pacific) while on the Midway... most of the crew tied down in their racks, the weature decks closed off. We were getting spray ontop of our flight deck, 35 degree rolls, which is pretty impressive, especially since it was a carrier. Luckily, I wasn't one who was sea-sick... it was pretty much a free day!

a carrier u think could withstand a clos range attack u gotto be kiding me
u just aim for the flight deck i think that a couple of cruise missiles and the rest of the aircraft on top would be enough to cause a reaction
also ur carrier battlegroups arnt impregnible a battleship would break into the battlegroup no bother then just use anti aircraft weapons to get towards the carrier

Originally posted by devilwasp
a carrier u think could withstand a clos range attack u gotto be kiding me

From a frigate, yes.

u just aim for the flight deck

i think that a couple of cruise missiles and the rest of the aircraft on top would be enough to cause a reaction

That assumes that their are aircraft there to hit. Remember that the Nimitz class has quite a bit of armor on the flight deck to prevent damage inside the skin of the ship.

also ur carrier battlegroups arnt impregnible a battleship would break into the battlegroup no bother then just use anti aircraft weapons to get towards the carrier

I know that a BB could kill a carrier, if he could get close enough to it. Show me a battleship that could sneak up to a carrier.

our frigates have actually quite a lot of weapons on them
ah u just shoot the flight deck and the planes cant land
also a battleship could sneak up on a carrier if it was dark i know the radar thing would screw it but u goto admit if it was state of the art then the battle ship could fight back
also im sick of this damm topic im outa here we spent like a week arguing and i dont wanna argue for another


[Edited on 05/03/2004 by devilwasp]

An Aircraft Carrier would pick up and intercept any other ship before it became close enough to become a threat. Not only does the Carrier have Ship-based Radar, it also has the E-2C Hawkeye Surveillance Plane forever monitoring an even further extended area from up above. This plane in itself is a flying tactical command center, which can individually lock onto targets, and put that information into the Jets and the Carrier. Worst case scenario, an Aircraft Carrier can still outrun 99% percent of the ships out there.

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
Hasn't anyone taking into consideration on arming carriers with torpedos and missiles and side cannons?

Would that not be awsome to see?

Shattered OUT...

Side Cannons = Phalanx Weapons System
Missiles = Fighter and Attack Jets (F-14 Tomcat, F/A-18-Hornet and F/A-18E- Super Hornet, EA-6B Prowler, S-3 Viking, etc).
Torpedos = S-3 Viking, and SH-60 Seahawk.

I was a welder at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard for many years.I worked in the mothball fleet here.I got to work on the USS Missouri,and the USS New Jersery.

Ive also worked on the USS Nimitz,USS Carl Vinson,USS Abraham Lincoln,USS Midway,USS Ranger,USS Oriskany,USS Hornet,USS Bennington,USS Bon Homme Richard.(not to mention a few cruisers and ddg's)

I got to sit in the breech of the Mo's and NJ's 16" cannons.VERY IMPESSIVE to say the least.

In the Navy's terms of thinking..all ships are expendable except for the carrier.

I dont think a bpdms or a phalanx can stop a 16" projectile inbound regardless of how many picket ships try to shoot it down.

In WW2 someone asked the skipper of the USS Missouri on what he would do about a Kamakazi attack on the ship and he quickly replied' I would pipe for the sweepers'

dude if its so good then y did the frigate blow up the carrier in the war game?
also i think he meant bigger guns than a phalax
thanks u proved ma point man

You are of course, counting on the fact, that a Battleship could even get close enough to the carrier to fire upon it first. It's not Impossible, because nothing is, but Highly Improbable. I'm only saying that it is very unlikely it could get within striking distance before it is destroyed. As for an Aircraft Carrier having bigger Shipboard guns than a Phalanx, it has a few, that I've seen onboard before, but it would be pointless to outfit it with guns any larger. The last thing you need on a ship launching and retrieving aircraft, is for it to be rocking around anymore than it already does.

good point
still would make it more deadly i dont c the need in larger carriers sure u get bigger aircraft or more aircraft so more firepower but whats the point having 1 big 1 when u can have 6 or 7 smaller 1s doing the same job?

That's a good point. I think that's probably what will happen in the near future. Making them smaller can help in making them stealthier too, and it will be much harder to hit 6 or 7 targets, rather than 1 large one. Matter of fact, I'll try to find an article on this that I read in a Magazine not too long ago.

What I think the dangers to a carrier are:

A) attack submaries (this is obvious), though usually it is often a suicide mission for the submarine, as launching its torpedos and missiles will give its position away.

B) a B-2 or better stealth bomber.

It would not be hard to adapt JDAM's or laser/TV guided weapons to attack moving targets if necessary.

Furthermore, the 5000 lb deep penetrator weapons are designed to deliver big cans of whoopass to *hardened * *undeground* bunkers.

Those are going down very fast and very hard into the hull, from the top. They will go through many levels before exploding.

They could be aimed towardsthe rear, into the turbines and reactor.

na na iv got the best anti ship weapon a rail gun

Aircraft Carriers have a longer range, but battleships cant be blown outta the sky with a stinger missile... and for emediate ground support, the battleship is good, because the heavy cannons do a lot of damage. battleships now (gulf war time) were capable of launching cruise missiles...