The Black Manta is the B-2.....?

So ive been looking around lately, poking for black projects, chupa pics ect. and I come across finally these pics of the B-2.

It is in my belief, that perhaps the B-2 is the "Black Manta".

Could it be? It seems to fit in with a few categories.... well maybe 2.

its black

and its stealthy.

Right? The b-2 is a stealth bomber.

perhaps we have all been misled by the origins. I found this movie that was supposedly the black manta, but it was all out of focus and stuff.

So thats why I didnt post the link.

well, thats my theorie, that the black manta is in fact, just the B-2.

Any thoughts?

I believe the term "Black Manta" was coined by some of the folks who live out by Rachel, maybe Bill Sweetman.

I don't think the gov't would give a stealth bomber such an obvious nickname, and then make it public.

HIghly impossible, i do not think the government would make such a classification(obvious one at that) public and say it is secret.

Besides the black manta looks nothing like the B-2 only for the wing shape and that is it. Also they both do 2 very different jobs.

Shattered OUT...

Well, maybe the government has a sense of humor?

Maybe they enjoy watching us rotting our brains out for hours at a time looking for something thats under our nose.

Besides, even if they did tell us that the B-2 was the black manta (if it is) a lot of people would be still rotting otheir brains.

Well, as for their purposes, im a little light on the subject.
What does the Black Manta do then???

The TR-3A Black Manta-






"Black Manta is believed to be a Stealth Reconnaisance aircraft, designed to relay information on targets to attack planes like th e F-117 Nighthawk or the F-111. It is supposed to have bee nusedn in this role during the Gulf War. There may be evidence for this in the "Team Stealth" patches that many F-117 pilots have been seen wearing."

B-2 stealth Spirit Bomber-


Found on website- robocat.users.btopenworld.com...

As you can see above, the TR-3A looks nothing like the B-2.

Shattered OUT...

actually It kinda does resemble the b-2, and there is no evidence supporting your claim that it looks nothing like it.

Espicially a lot of people only saw it briefly.

Originally posted by Catfish
So ive been looking around lately, poking for black projects, chupa pics ect. and I come across finally these pics of the B-2.

It is in my belief, that perhaps the B-2 is the "Black Manta".

Could it be? It seems to fit in with a few categories.... well maybe 2.

its black

and its stealthy.

Right? The b-2 is a stealth bomber.

perhaps we have all been misled by the origins. I found this movie that was supposedly the black manta, but it was all out of focus and stuff.

So thats why I didnt post the link.

well, thats my theorie, that the black manta is in fact, just the B-2.

Any thoughts?

That's all fine and dandy but, two things are wrong with this theory:

1) It's supposed to be twice as stealthy as the B-2A's.
2) The TR-3A was supposed to be reconnasance.

another problem is the the TR-3A was supposed to be powered with PDWE. Unless I'm looking at the wrong plane here.

I assure you that the Black Manta is NOT the B-2.

Originally posted by Catfish
actually It kinda does resemble the b-2, and there is no evidence supporting your claim that it looks nothing like it.

Espicially a lot of people only saw it briefly.

Are you kidding? The only thing that is similiar between the two is the fact that THEY ARE FLYING wings.

That is the only similiarity, if you look the shape of the TR-3A is flat at back when the B-2a zig zags and plus on the middle back of the TR-3A it comes out a little.

The B-2a is also round in the front, but the TR-3A is not, it is flat producing more stealth, it is reconiassance, that is why the TR-3A does not, can not resemble anything like the B-2a.

It has to be more stealthy.

Shattered OUT...

P.S., a key feature i forgot to mention, the TR-3A has tailwings, where as the B-2a does not.

[Edited on 9-4-2004 by ShatteredSkies]

Originally posted by Catfish
So ive been looking around lately, poking for black projects, chupa pics ect. and I come across finally these pics of the B-2.

It is in my belief, that perhaps the B-2 is the "Black Manta".

Could it be? It seems to fit in with a few categories.... well maybe 2.

its black

and its stealthy.

Right? The b-2 is a stealth bomber.

perhaps we have all been misled by the origins. I found this movie that was supposedly the black manta, but it was all out of focus and stuff.

So thats why I didnt post the link.

well, thats my theorie, that the black manta is in fact, just the B-2.

Any thoughts?

so with your designation system... the F-117 Nighthawk would be a b-2 as well., its black, its stealthy, and its a bomber (despite its the "stealth Fighter")

TR-3A Black Manta is not a real plane. It is the bad interpretation of unmanned spy plane Lockheed Tier 3. Both - TR and Tier - means Tactical Reconnaissance.

The first real replacement of retired SR-71 Blackbird come from Northrop and E-Systems. They proposed a variation of B-2 bomber called RB-2 with redesigned weapon bay for reconnaissance equipment. McDonnel Douglas proposed a ballistic hypersonic waverider reentry vehicle. Lockheed dusted off its design for the Advanced Technology Bomber competition and began modifying it for the mission requirements being drafted by the Director of Central Intelligence. By the Spring of 1992 several agencies were funding the Lockheed work under the name Advanced Airborne Reconnaissance System and a contract seemed near. Lockheed's ATB design was much like Northrop's winning B-2 as it was originally concieved, though smaller. The Lockheed ATB was a flying wing with a single sawtooth trailing edge (the original Northrop design also had a single sawtooth, the additional two were added as part of a major redesign at the Air Force's request in 1983) and a wingspan of roughtly 26 meters.

for the Tier 3 the Lockheed ATB was almost completely redesigned. Weapons bays were changed to better fit recon systems and their associated apertures, and a host of new populsion and low observables features were added. Prior efforts by the STOVL concept were worked into the propulsion system to give the Tier 3 dramatically improved low speed manueverability for extended sensor coverage and time over target. For the first time Lockheed incorporated "active stealth" features. Active stealth isn't jamming, but methods of deceiving or spoofing enemy sensors over a broad range of the electromagnetic spectrum. Instead of merely absorbing or redirecting radar as previous low observable aircraft had done, the Tier 3 was capable of intercepting the signal and sending back a "phase conjugate pulse" injected with noise - essentially cancelling out the enemy radar system and burying the signature of the Tier 3 in normal background noise.

Loral, Boeing and General Electric signed on as team members before work began on subscale demonstrator aircraft in the Summer of 1992. By 1993 a manned prototype aircraft had been completed and was in test on the restricted ranges of the Southwest. A manned version was used to reduce the risk involved - the prototype was at the time the most advanced stealth aircraft flying, and as a result was one of the most expensive aircraft ever built. Program managers insisted on having a man in the loop after learning from experience with other UAV programs that unmanned vehicles are prone to software bugs and tend to crash and burn (paradoxly it was the destiny of its follower Tier 3- Dark Star). A number of observers reported seeing large boomerrang-shaped aircraft, often flying at "near walking speed".

By mid-1994 the flight test program had progressed well and many milestones had been achieved- though the cost of the production version was much more than the customers were willing to pay. Many sources within the Air Force and intelligence community reffered to the Tier 3 as the most advanced aircraft ever produced- so advanced that if one was to crash over hostile territory the US would have to "bomb that country back into the stone age" to protect the technology used in the Tier 3. After much debate within the intelligence agaencies and recently formed DARO, the Tier 3 program was judged to be too expensive and high risk, and studies for replacements were begun. The CIA Gnat 750 program was restructered and brought out of the black to provide an interim theatre recon capability in the form of several Gnats and the Predator, while requests for proposals for two new aircraft were let out to industry. The Tier 2+ which led to RQ-4 Global Hawk was to be a high-endurance UAV with little low observable to reduce cost and fill in for the gap in coverage capability left by the cancellation of the Tier 3. Loral's competitor for the Tier 2+ contract was a cheaper version of the Tier 3, entered without the permission of the other Tier 3 team memebrs, causing an uproar in the black aircraft community (it was presented as the Frontier Systems W570 design). The Tier 3- was designed as a low observable aircraft with less range and endurance than the Tier 2+ and Tier 3, while still allowing commanders to have eyes over heavily defended airspace. The delayed first flight of the Tier 3- DarkStar UAV was primarily caused by the reuse of Tier 3 flight control and guidance software for the DarkStar- more changes in the Tier 3 code were required than originally thought.

By the way, name MANTA is used on Lockheed X-44 experimental plane and means Multi-Axis No Tail Aircraft. More info and pictures (but still only in slovak language):

Tier 3 picture: www.hitechweb.szm.sk/UAV02.htm
X-44 information: www.hitechweb.szm.sk/x44.htm
ATB program information: ww.hitechweb.szm.sk/stealth4.htm

If I learn, how to add an image, I will do so.

True, the TR-3A is not really an actual working mass produced aircraft, but it can be real, but your article I think does provide the information needed to prove it is not real.

Shattered OUT...

The Tier 3 how ever is real, there are photos of it on a runway and in the air that I have recently seen.

Well this is a bit of a hurried post since im about to go out,
maybe its just me but doesnt

TR 3a sound a bit like Tier 3 which i believe was the darkstar unmanned recon craft.

Black world meets white world project? who knows

any info im wrong on please correct as im rather new on the boards

Originally posted by ShatteredSkiesThe TR-3A Black Manta

According to that designation, it's a reconaissance trainer.

I think with all available data, the two aircraft are completely different, apart from a close visual similarity of being a "triangle" which at fast speeds and low altitude could poss be mistaken, the propulsion is supposed to be completely different.

Originally posted by InvaderZoch

Originally posted by ShatteredSkiesThe TR-3A Black Manta

According to that designation, it's a reconaissance trainer.

According to the designation, but, it is a full reconaissance, no trainer, it would be a mistake to make that aircraft a trainer.

Shattered OUT...

Here are the pictures of Lockheed ATB and Tier 3.






Note: Unmanned version of Tier 3 looks slightly different. Manned demonstrator has smaller wingspan and greater lenght.


[Edited on 4-6-2004 by matej]

Is ATB a manned demonstrator for Tier 3? I thought that ATB stood for Advanced Technology Bomber and the the Lockheed picture was just one of the designs that lost out to the Northrop B-2.

The ATB was the bomber design that emerged from have blue along with the ATA. Lockheed was supposed to buld both but had problems with the bomber so Northrop was asked to participate as a safeguard and eventually won. The mysterious part of all of this is that even after nearly a decade Lockheed's design or even a picture of it has never been declassified.

No, you should read my first article. Lockheed ATB proposal was selected as a conceptional basis for Tier 3 unmanned reconnaissance aircraft. And from Tier 3 was made a manned demonstrator with shorter wingspan and greater lenght (near triangular shape).

It is true that no picture of Lockheed ATB was OFICIALY declasified, but I found the general plans in firm that delivered Lockheed CAD/CAM workstations. Black world is not so black, but you must know what and where to find.

[edit on 8-6-2004 by matej]

[edit on 8-6-2004 by matej]