The Heroism Conspiracy

Ok, first, I know I'm going to no doubt going to get flame here, but please listen to what I'm saying it is not out of hate or anything, but it is the truth, sometimes the truth hurts though, so please listen with an open mind and open heart.

The Soldiers are not heros. That's right, even though we've been taught differently and we see all thse "heroic" images of soldiers doing "heroic" things, they are not our heros, if they are your heros, then you are one of the millions sccesfully brainwashed into believe this nonsense.

The media and the government spend billions on advertising the heroism of being a soldier, that should be the first cle that it's not true, but for the majority, they dont see this, the military advertises that you to can be a hero, just sign here.

When peope sign up to join the military, hey think they are signing up to "serve there country", this simply is not true, they are not serving there country, they are serving there government, they are signing there rights away, there very lives away to protect a tyranical government, one that is no better than any other government, in all actuallity, they are serving the NWO.

You see, they are also brainwashed, there's this thing called "bootcamp", where they "break people down and then build them up", during this part of training, they are being reprogrammed into deny the ability to think for themselves (sounds mean, but it's not meant to, it's true), to be told what to think, believe, do, all by the goverment.

I know this is true because I have friends and family that have/are miitary, I see other people on this board that are military talk about there approval of pretty much anything the government does.

Now I know that some soldiers do some good things in the world, like the coast gaurd rescuing people and stuff like that, I'm not saying that all of them are bad or that they never do any good.

Now that I got that out of the way, I notice that i can't watch one channel, one movie or anything where there is not some advertisment for the military, it's really insane. Also, people everywhere say "Support our troops", how? Tell them that you agree with everything that they do (which btw is a form of self brainwashing/mindcontrol)? Plus everyone calls them heros, without even a second thought, they don't even know why, all they know i that "there fighting terrorism" or "there fighting for your rights", none of this is true, Osama has never taken away my rights, my government has.
To top all this off though, I truely believe that in the near future, the soldiers will fight agianst people like me and you, people the government deems unexceptible, I fear that the soldiers will hunt us down because they are told to and they brainwshed into doing whatever they're told because they are told it's right.
However, I am a little more optimistic than that, I believe there will be many soldiers that will snap out of it and wake up to the truth.

In case your wondering what heroism means to me, well, it's not about winning a fight, it's not about killing people or hating your enemy, it's about sacrificing yourself for others, it's about loving your enemy, it's never about killing a few to save the many, it's about presenting an alternative to those wh would harm others, to show them he truth and show them how t love each other and get past many of the things that sepperate us.
I wonder what the world would have been like after 9/11 if we forgave the terrorists and instead of bombing another country, opening our arms and asking forgiveness for the wrongs we have done and meeting with those who did us wrong and talking about what can be done to make peace.

However, we have the media, telling us to support those who are opposed to our manufactured enemies of ideology, i believe when this "War on Terrorism" comes to our shores, our people will full support what our troops are doing to our own people, no matter how evil it may be and our troops will never think twice because the media and government has told them there whole life that they are heros for doing what they are doing.

Star and Flag if you agree.

-Lahara

I really like how people star and flag a thread but do not leave a response.

I would say that while you may have friends and family in the military you still have no concept of the military. We have seen this posed many times here but not the way you posed it so I will give you points for originality.

First off, people joining the military do not give their oath to the government, they give their oath to the Constitution of The Untited States. This is necessary for the same reason you hate the military, because you think they fight for Bush or the NWO.

I suggest you go to a Military Cemetary and look at the rows of headstones. You might not think or feel or believe that the soldiers fighting today are fighting for you, but I guarantee you that those from the beginning of this country to Korea, and yes even Veitnam, and yes even now died HEROICALLY for you.

Use to be the word Hero was reserved for a person performing a very heroic and brave duty, going beyond the call of duty. Like jumping in the middle of enemy fire and saving a buddy. Nowadays, the word is overly used. Not all military are heroes, but there are some who deserve the title. Hell nowadays, somebody making doughnuts could be considered a hero. Just depends on a person's interpretation of the word Hero.

reply to post by capgrup


Well, I guess I failed in making my point.

Yes, they take an oath to uphold the constitution, but, but, but, most people don't even know what the constitution states.

I tried to make the point tha people are brainwashed in bootcamp to believe whatever they are told to do is what's right, but I guess either i failed at making that point, or my post was not read in it's entierty, just ecause you go through "training" does not mean that what you are doing is right or that what ever it i that you are ORDERED to do is right, remember, soldiers follow orders and commands, if they don't then they are punished they can be ordered to burn an innocent child alive and if there conscience interviens and they choose not to do it, then they are repremanded.

You see you are getting caught up in the euphoria of the "Duty, Honor, Country" crap that the media/government throws out there, usually when some youngster signs up for the military, they're wanting to get a ree college education (which they never get), while "serving there country", they are'nt serving there country, they are serving the government wheather they realize it or not.

Seriously, all the military people I know (and that's most of my family and frinds) think this way, they believe that any action the government takes, they have to support.

They are brinwashed into not thinking for themselves, everyone in the U.S. gets this brainwashing, but it's more severe for the poeple who join the military.

Also capgrup I hope you did not take anything i said as offensive, it was never intended to be.

-Lahara

[edit on 31-12-2008 by TheRandom1]

I cant agree more!


Star and flag from me!

I can understand you not wanting to call a solider a hero I get that. But you should use the argument that he/she is trained to do that job, that is why he is not a hero. He is trained to run into gun fire, save lives from crazy extremist, and give freedom to countries who have not known it. That is the argument you should be using.

You shouldn't be saying that we should be turning the other check when innocent people are killed, murdered, just because they showed up to work. If the 9/11 terrorist would have hit only military targets like Wright-Patterson Air force Base or just the Pentagon, then maybe you could present the argument for turning the other cheek or try to talk about a peaceful solution. But when it is turned to the innocent population, it needs to meet with a measured response.

I for one, personally, will be thanking them for trying to defeat the enemies who brought terror to my doorstep and making easier to sleep at night knowing they are out there protecting us, searching out and eliminating our would be killers.

people go into the Military for many reasons and I dare say being a "hero" is likely very low on the list of reasons.

Schooling and further education likely being the number one reason why people join.

Security - always a job available

Stability, benefits and retirement packages (for officers and enlisted)

Great toys to play with

Looks awesome on a resume

Belief that military is required (and it is) and that the over all "job" is to do good (though it may not always be that way and/or may take time to see the results of military deployments)

To be fair ALL hopefully go into the military KNOWING that they may at some point be asked to risk their life for something they may not 100% believe in - such is the nature of the "job".

To say that all military personnel have a "hero" complex is unfair and uneducated.

Why do people become cops? Lawyers? Judges, politicians??? Nurses and doctors????

because they want to help. Period.

Many will serve their three years and be done others will become career personnel.

I was married to a Marine and he certainly didn't get into it to be a "hero". It offered upgrading and education along with a salary to boot and yah can't get that anywhere without taking a huge student loan.

He narrowly missed Desert Storm...once his three years were done he took his schooling and put it to use in the civilian world.

I am sure there are a very few who consider themselves heroes. maybe they are in ways that we can't understand here safe at home.

It's a job and someone HAS to do it - the war is wrong and we all know it, however it is their JOB and they know it prior to being deployed - hell in basic training they get a good idea of where they'll be going and if it's the suck then that's where they go.

Support the soldiers and not the war...it is possible to that you know.

There are bad apples in every tree...I just doubt very strongly that they all suffer from what you suggest.

Demonizing the military persons is akin to demonizing the lawyer for Jeffrey Dalmer. Just people doing a job to the best of their ability and within the confines of the laws and responsibilities as laid out.

I agree OP.
I never asked for protection in the first place.
I also do not appreciate them using me as an excuse to go kill.
Remember,its all for my freedom.LOL

reply to post by justgeneric

Are there no ethics?
The idea someone would kill people to get an education is sick.
I would rather do college and a 2 jobs personally.
Schooling is no excuse to kill people.
I say get a better job and work harder if you are thinking about killing for a living.
No offence.
I know thats just your opinion,I don't think you are the one thinking about killing people for a living and was just entertaining our conversation.



[edit on 31-12-2008 by DrumsRfun]

Yeah your right its another mindslave trick of both truth and lies against truth and lies in a deadlocked conspiracy.
A man or woman has a weapon they beleive that what they are doing is right and they fight for freedom and defence of their homeland, martyed upon death but heres the thing..........who am i talking about?
And thats the point, the only difference between a terrorist and soldier is one has a smart uniform better weapons and official orders from a 'authorised' commander.

reply to post by TheMajestic


Pretty much true.

Do the terrorists think they are doing baad? Would they purposfully do something wrong? No, they are being brainwashed into thinking that what they do is right, just like any other soldier, any soldier nomatter what country they are fighting for thinks that they are doing the right thing, usually it is not the right thing though.

-Lahara

i somewhat agree with you
'
also----i like how all soldiers get lumped together,,,,,as signing up to fight and protect our country,,,,that may be true for many

however,,, a great many sign up for serviuce as a last resort
they're not college bound ,
they're not brainiacs
and the military is a last resort for good pay,,, and a decent job with retirement potential

they don't want to fight,,, they just hope to get a check,, retirement and hopefully avoid war

and i bet ask any soldiers wife with kids if they want there husband to be a war hero----they'll say hell no, i don't want that,, or war,,, just him to be safe and home with them


remember all the movies where the dad drops his boy of at the recruitment office at 18 and says sign up or get out

many are like this,,, except it's not the movies,,, they sign up as a last resort to hopefully obtain good pay and a decent future and successful career


and they're are tons more in this group than the tv commercials or propoganda want to admit



also---you made a good point,,, thinking about it now----those commercials are rather brainwashing the whole hero aspect

O come on...when someone joins they aren't guaranteed to be deployed into a war time scenario. There aren't always wars, and many military never see actual battle. many are deployed as peacekeepers, security, engineering...and the list goes on.

If you join and go into infantry divisions then yeah you stand a good chance of being deployed to war torn area and active battle duty.

Are all our military engaged in war??? Obviously not. In fact a very small percentage of active duty and reservists are on rosters for deployment outside of the continental US. That may change.

When one joins I seriously doubt many are hoping to get a shot over in the desert - they have other motivations for joining.

And yes taking a risk of active battle deployment for a steady wage, education and benefits may well be worth it for many depending on personal circumstance and no I don't think it's wrong necessarily.

At least they are performing a service in return for that education and I am quite sure they know the risks. The hope is that they won't have to go to war...always BUT someone has to it's the nature of the beast.

PooPooing the military is not the issue really - your irritation might be better directed at the politicians who insist on generating wars.

As a Canadian our military has been forced to undergo drastic changes in philosophy and practice. We WERE peacekeepers and now we're in battle...many enlisted never thought they'd end up over there prior to 911.

To generalize and say any group is "this" or "that" is ridiculous. There are good and bad, fair and unfair.

I argue that military is a good career choice and a great way to get an education among many other pluses with being enlisted.

Military is NOT only for war.

reply to post by justgeneric


Ok, well, some of what you've said is propaganda (no I'm notsaying your a disinfo agent or anything ), but the wole point of the thread is the portrayal of soldier as heros and the following hero worship (we do that to more than just military, Obama is a great example), for many here it is impossible for people to think any other way, that we are being fed this propaganda.

There is something more senister at work here, I see more and more of these advertisemen ts FALSLY avertising paid college, well now they are'nt advertising that specifcally, now they're calling bootcamp and there experience in the military just as good as college lol.

-Lahara

reply to post by TheRandom1


You know, it's this kind of thinking that led to our brave men and women in uniform being spit on and called "baby killers" when they came home from Vietnam. Obviously not every soldier is a hero. I think the word hero is thrown around too often and too liberally when it is not always appropriate. However, I completely disagree with just about everything you said. Just be thankful that the very people you are criticizing have given their lives and limbs so that people like you can make such idiotic statements.

I wonder what the world would have been like after 9/11 if we forgave the terrorists and instead of bombing another country, opening our arms and asking forgiveness for the wrongs we have done and meeting with those who did us wrong and talking about what can be done to make peace.

You've got to be kidding me! Forgive the terrorists??? "You just hijacked four of our airliners and viciously murdered over 3,000 innocent civilians. But, we forgive you! Let's hug!" Thank God that our government and our people do not share such an idiotic sentiment. That kind of weakness only invites more terror and causes more of our enemies to think they can take advantage of us.

I'm not saying that we are perfect or that we are 100% innocent. And I'm not saying the same goes for our troops, either. But to open our arms and embrace the savages who are hell-bent on our demise is completely absurd and downright dangerous. I hate to break it to you, but nothing we did as a people or as a nation made us deserve to be attacked on 9/11. Purposely targeting innocent civilians in the name of religious extremism, or anything for that matter, can never be excused.

I pray that someday you grow up and recognize the evil that we are confronting. And I pray that you and your loved ones are never harmed or killed in an act of terrorism. Because God forbid if that should happen, I would love to see you hug the terrorists responsible and blame yourself.

And not to be mean, but if you're going to make such arrogant comments about our people and our military, then at least learn how to spell the words you use correctly.

Random1;

I did not take offense at your post and I hope my reply did not come off as such.

Yes in basic they do "tear you down". This is somewhat necessary to remove the "Rambo" mentality. The military would never survive if you had thousands of these kinds of people all running around trying to win medals.

When I went in basic, the drills spent quite a bit of time drilling the difference between legal and illegal, moral and immoral orders. Even though Bush and Rummy might have succeeded somewhat in trying to cover their own asses on torture, I guarantee you that the average troop does not have that as a guideline. And yes, there are some scumbags that give the rest a bad name.

Originally posted by TheRandom1
"soldiers follow orders and commands, if they don't then they are punished they can be ordered to burn an innocent child alive and if there conscience interviens and they choose not to do it, then they are repremanded."





Soldiers are expected to follow orders, BUT... those would be what's called "lawful orders" "Burning an inoccent child alive" IS NOT a Lawful order...

Therefore it would not have to be followed.. The only reprimand that a soldier might recieve for not following that Order, would be if he failed to report Whoever issued that order to higher ups..

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by justgeneric

 

Are there no ethics?
The idea someone would kill people to get an education is sick.
I would rather do college and a 2 jobs personally.
Schooling is no excuse to kill people.
I say get a better job and work harder if you are thinking about killing for a living.
No offence.
I know thats just your opinion,I don't think you are the one thinking about killing people for a living and was just entertaining our conversation.



[edit on 31-12-2008 by DrumsRfun]

Do you really think that all people join the military to just kill?? Also do you truly believe that every "job" in the military requires killing people??

As far as Being a "hero" Just because you wear "the Uniform" I know alot of military personell (myself included) that have never felt comfortable with that..
In the military "hero" is usually used as a derogatory term.. Except for the very few occasions that it is warrented.. Even then, does it rarely "roll off the tounge" comfortably..

[edit on 1-1-2009 by SideWynder]

Originally posted by Rasputin13
reply to post by TheRandom1

 

You know, it's this kind of thinking that led to our brave men and women in uniform being spit on and called "baby killers" when they came home from Vietnam. Obviously not every soldier is a hero. I think the word hero is thrown around too often and too liberally when it is not always appropriate. However, I completely disagree with just about everything you said. Just be thankful that the very people you are criticizing have given their lives and limbs so that people like you can make such idiotic statements.

I wonder what the world would have been like after 9/11 if we forgave the terrorists and instead of bombing another country, opening our arms and asking forgiveness for the wrongs we have done and meeting with those who did us wrong and talking about what can be done to make peace.

You've got to be kidding me! Forgive the terrorists??? "You just hijacked four of our airliners and viciously murdered over 3,000 innocent civilians. But, we forgive you! Let's hug!" Thank God that our government and our people do not share such an idiotic sentiment. That kind of weakness only invites more terror and causes more of our enemies to think they can take advantage of us.

I'm not saying that we are perfect or that we are 100% innocent. And I'm not saying the same goes for our troops, either. But to open our arms and embrace the savages who are hell-bent on our demise is completely absurd and downright dangerous. I hate to break it to you, but nothing we did as a people or as a nation made us deserve to be attacked on 9/11. Purposely targeting innocent civilians in the name of religious extremism, or anything for that matter, can never be excused.

I pray that someday you grow up and recognize the evil that we are confronting. And I pray that you and your loved ones are never harmed or killed in an act of terrorism. Because God forbid if that should happen, I would love to see you hug the terrorists responsible and blame yourself.

And not to be mean, but if you're going to make such arrogant comments about our people and our military, then at least learn how to spell the words you use correctly.

So you're saying that because i think it's wrong to kill others and that there are peaceful alternatives to war that I'm the bad guy? That I spit on people? I never sid we should spit on our troops or anyone, but you implied that my ieology of peace and love is what spured the hatred towards the troops after the vietnam war, the spin stops here sir.

I notice youuse the word God a lot, this implies to me that you might be religious, did you know that Jesus taught us to love our enemies? That is where I'm basing most of my thoughts on this from, what Jesus said.

You see you can't kill an ideology with bullets, that is what terrorism is, you can kill ideology with a countering ideology though, the people in the middle east (which I dated one and she was anything but a savage, so I take offense to you said) have been fighting each other for thousands of years, to wrongs don't make a right, that's something they don't get, that's something nobody,, including you, does not get. Also, if you never forgive the terrorists, you will die with hate in your heart, do you really want to die hating someone?

Like I said you can't kill an ideology with bullets.

Also, you make it seem like I'm saying hateful things about the troops, i'm not, I don't know if you just ran through what I said and never thoguht about any of it, or if you are purposfully trying to paint me as some evil guy who hates people, i dont hate anyone,I don't even hate the doctors that killed my grandma, I don't even hate the woman who drove me into having a mental break down, I don't even hate the drug dealers who wanted to kill me, what good does hate do? None, none whatsoever.

Also, don't attack me attac the issue, personal attacks are one of the first signs someone is losing an arguement, don't lose your arguement before you even start bro.

Also, my keybard doesn't always type what 'I want it too, some keys stick and some don't even type at all, I'm on a crappy laptop.

-Lahara