The Heroism Conspiracy

An idea never dies, true heros live for what they believe in, never die or kill for it, they dont get paid or told to do something either.

I'm based in the UK, and although all of the soldiers I know have a real sense of pride in the work they do, and largely feel they are doing something 'worthwhile' - most of them are in the army for the money. It's not great compared to a lot of other jobs, but then, where I'm from, it's a great deal more than the same guys would be able to earn in a factory job which is practically all they have available to them.

I think anyone who goes out there (even though there isn't much of a choice after the sign up stage) is very brave - and I support them because I think it takes real balls to what they do.

But, that said, I don't think they are fighting for the people - I mean what exactly are they doing for us in Afghanistan, other than costing us a HUGE fortune in the time when we have very little in terms of cash as a nation.

The soldiers in Afgahnistan certainly arn't fighting for my rights and liberty - no one in Afghanistan threatened any of my rights before hand and no one does now.

As someone correctly stated, the only person to infringe on my liberties has been the government. I've been searched under anti-terror legislation twice - I never was before all this crap. It wasn't the Afghanis who voted for this - it was my own government! Pffff.

fighting for the people of Afghanistan's rights maybe - but not mine. And in all honesty, I and most of the UK population don't care at all about them. Sorry but it's true. When I have to pay 50% more to fill up my car, pay my electricity bill, feed myself - whether they have freedom of religion or democracy is the very last thing I care about.

I'd rather have all of that cash they spent diverted into our economy. Indeed, the soldiers would be doing more for the people if they all resigned and freed up the cash.

So hero's from my point of view? No.

I completely agree with the OP. I understand that many people sign up for the military with the best intentions - its a good way to get an education, get a job, etc. while feeling that you are doing something to serve your country.

It's that last part I have a problem with. MAYBE in the past it really was an honorable and respectable thing to join the military, but there is no excuse for anyone today for anyone to remain ignorant of all the atrocities governments are responsible for (and I mean ALL governments, by their very nature...not just the US.) A military is the tool of a government, and a government IMHO is by its nature an enemy of individual freedom. Based on that very simple ideal alone, I cannot justify anyone ever joining the military.

As the OP said, the government has done more harm to the US people than any "terrorist."

What gets me is the moronic idea that "our" soldiers are automatically heros and "their" soldiers are automatically villains. It makes no sense to an awake mind.

Soldiers, anywhere, are, if anything, victims. Of their government and, sadly, of their own stupidity.

reply to post by Rasputin13


With respects, I would never hug anyone who killed 3000 of my countrymen, nor would I blame it on terrorists when it was my own government, the very government that the US army goes to war for.

As regards the OP, I agree totally. The armies of the world are fed the life of "Brothers in arms" and to do at all costs. They are so brainwashed that they wouldnt know if they were heroes or not.

IMO Your army of heroes will eventually be used against its very own citizens. You will eventually see them as brainwashed when they take their own from their own homes.

The true heroes will be those that say "NO" to the orders to imprison their own countrymen.


Respects

I agree.

In an ideal world, young people would be put off of joining the military due to their peers' and elders' disdain at the illegitimate wars being fought. Instead, communities are proud to watch their sons and daughters fly off to Iraq or Afghanistan. Aside from the money and security supposedly provided by the military, the promise of heroism is a strong part of why so many sign up. Young people should be told that there's nothing heroic about fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan because they were and are based on deceptions.

I'm not opposed to the concept of military at all. I take my hat off to anyone who fights for a just cause. If my country was being invaded a foreign army I'd sign up immediately (which raises interesting points about the oh-so-evil Iraqis killing our men - are they not just defending their nation?).

I suppose the real problem is how few actually realise that Iraq and Afghanistan are illegitimate wars. They may be ignorant, but the blame shouldn't be placed on them. It should, as always, be placed on the corrupt Governments.

reply to post by Zepherian


Very well statd point.

A star for you *

-Lahara

reply to post by capgrup


You are obviously living in some fantasy world. The last war fought justly for our freedoms was WW2, and even then there is some speculation that there was some conspiracy to get us into the war in the first place.
All those people in military graveyards were victims of the mass propaganda of an immoral government. And the reasoning behind this is simple, who has the most to gain from all these little wars and invasions? As Jim Marrs so aptly states it, "just follow the money".
John Q. Adams once said something to the effect that America in its drive to control the world will lose its soul. Something we lost a long time ago. We are about to reap what we have sown, for like people nations too accumulate karma good and bad.

*hello
*i think it is the cause not the men that should be taken in consideration although the job of soldier can be a very controversial one:it is not as productive as the one of a doctor,a teacher,all those jobs you need either in time of peace or time of war
*the heroic soldier is of course a myth and this is what it is often referred to them as anonymous:they are simply guys who lost their lives for causes they have nothing to do with:see who make profits out of war while other remain disabled for the rest of their life
*you don't need to be a soldier to defend your values,your homeland,your beloved ones because soldier nowadays don't defend but attack,destroy,kill ,rape....
*being a soldier is not a job....i cannot tell exactly what it is

Originally posted by TheRandom1
one that is no better than any other government, in all actuallity, they are serving the NWO.

I think you lost 95% of the people right here with your argument, for if the US Govrnemnt is the NWO then anyone who is an American is NWO. If you live in America and say then you are not NWO then I suggest you stop helping them and move to a country where you can be against them.

You see, they are also brainwashed, there's this thing called "bootcamp", where they "break people down and then build them up", during this part of training, they are being reprogrammed into deny the ability to think for themselves (sounds mean, but it's not meant to, it's true), to be told what to think, believe, do, all by the goverment.

An obvious statement from a person who has no clue to what basic training is all about....geez buddy post on what you know and not something you make up on the fly that just happens to fit your narrow view of reality.

I know this is true because I have friends and family that have/are miitary, I see other people on this board that are military talk about there approval of pretty much anything the government does.

Actually it is called Liberal, Conservative and Independent and not brained washed soldiers. If it is as you say then 99% of America is brained washed too. I just retired with 28 years in the service and I can tell you I disagreed with a lot. I saw Carter as a failure, Ragan great, Bush Sr boring, Clinton worthless, and I’m holding out on Bush, but I do think there have been some really big failures on his watch.

I actually like Ron Paul and Mitt Romney. For I want s smaller federal government foot print with a much larger state government foot print since we are the “United State” . This would give every state the ability to be as the people of that state votes to be, and so people can live in the state that matches their views. I was also impressed that a Republican governor was very successful in a liberal state as Romney was.

I really disliked McCain, and I see Obama as a wet behind the ears two year senator who achieved rock star status because he just happened to be a young, smart and articulate black man. Hilary scares the crap out of me and Biden is not much better than Chaney. Also I don’t like it that all the top spots will be filled by Senators who as a whole have not been able to legislate their way out of a paper bag for 15 plus years.

With all my years in the military do I sound like a brainwashed zombie?

Now I know that some soldiers do some good things in the world, like the coast gaurd rescuing people and stuff like that, I'm not saying that all of them are bad or that they never do any good.

The vast majority of the military never shoots at anyone and spends the majority of their career helping others in some way or another. I have 1000s of missions under my belt doing nothing but supplying food and supplies for those around the world in need. This is another case of ignorance on your part as to what the military really does.

Plus everyone calls them heros, without even a second thought, they don't even know why, all they know i that "there fighting terrorism" or "there fighting for your rights", none of this is true, Osama has never taken away my rights, my government has.

Well first what they do is really hard work, it is not something I would not wish on anyone. So that support is for those who are day in and out in a really nasty situation. If they were mindless zombies they would not need support, would they.

To top all this off though, I truely believe that in the near future, the soldiers will fight agianst people like me and you, people the government deems unexceptible, I fear that the soldiers will hunt us down because they are told to and they brainwshed into doing whatever they're told because they are told it's right.

However, I am a little more optimistic than that, I believe there will be many soldiers that will snap out of it and wake up to the truth.

You just might find that the military are more realist than anyone else since they see the world troubles up close and personal. They do not develop fears and conspiracies from just watching news agencies and reading hype. They see things at a very micro level since they are the feet on the ground. People like you sit back and dream of the NWO and the grand fight on terrorist, but the soldier sees that little girl they saved from dying or that family they fed etc, or that person shooting a AF 47 in a market they killed and then evac the wounded by that gunman to military hospitals.

In case your wondering what heroism means to me, well, it's not about winning a fight, it's not about killing people or hating your enemy, it's about sacrificing yourself for others, it's about loving your enemy, it's never about killing a few to save the many, it's about presenting an alternative to those wh would harm others, to show them he truth and show them how t love each other and get past many of the things that sepperate us.

Wow, you must then think the military are heroes...I am missing your point here then. The military do provide alternatives and been working very hard for the last six years closely with the local communities. The vast majority over there wants a good life, but there are those who are willing to strap a bomb on their chest or get into a car with 500 pound of explosives in it to further their cause. This is what has kept us in there for such a long time, and if we left massacres would happen that would equal Darfur. Just because a military person goes over there doesn’t mean they believe the war was the right thing to do, but they do believe that if they don’t go millions will die to secular fighting and the chaos Iran has been over years breeding.

Finally though, these threats are being reduced to a point we can leave without causing a implosion. Leaving that country is on every military person's mind over there for they do not want to be there but they still go and do the best job they can, and that is why we support them.

However, we have the media, telling us to support those who are opposed to our manufactured enemies of ideology, i believe when this "War on Terrorism" comes to our shores, our people will full support what our troops are doing to our own people, no matter how evil it may be and our troops will never think twice because the media and government has told them there whole life that they are heros for doing what they are doing.

The funny part is the military will fight for your right to post this and support you even though your views are totally against everything they do. The reason they do this is because this ensures freedom and rights for everyone no matter what their views are.

Isn't life in America great?



[edit on 1-1-2009 by Xtrozero]

good grief,

Someone here took a big bite out of the apple and doesn't even know it.

You see, they are also brainwashed, there's this thing called "boot camp", where they "break people down and then build them up", during this part of training, they are being reprogrammed into deny the ability to think for themselves (sounds mean, but it's not meant to, it's true), to be told what to think, believe, do, all by the government.

This is textbook brainwashing in itself. In boot camp you do things a certain way to get repitition..confidence...to learn to follow a procedure ..such that your team or fellow soldiers can count on you. Not just to think for yourself but also to be able to think far enough to recognize danger and risk for everyone in the team. You will eventually be tasked with handling expensive and dangerous equipment. If you cannot follow instructions to the tee..to the letter ...precisely..people will get hurt and killed....expensive, critical, and difficult to replace equipment will be damaged. This the key..dicipline...diciplines which can carry over to the civilian world.
If you cannot learn to follow simple instructions like how to properly fold a tee shirt..or pack your toothbrush away..how can you be trusted with a very expensive piece of equipment or another persons life. You will not only be holding that persons life in your hands but also that persons family future in your hands as well. You learn basic disciplines...individual responsibility as well as responsibility in a team setting.

I don't get brainwashed...I watch television..particularly MTV!!
Im sitting on the only one in town..I deserve it the others dont!!
Im an emotional train wreck but can pass it off as excellence and no one will notice or question it. I have the moral high ground. I see clearly because I am the MTV generation.
That is why I buy this or that brand of clothes..because I am not brainwashed....I'm an individual thinker..the original.

I buy this car because I never saw an ugly woman get out of one.
I have more stereo in this car than I have brains or glands.
I ran out and got a flat screen HDTV because no one else was buying them. Im not a follower. I'm an individual thinker.
I read GQ magazine and Sports Illustrated...especially the swimsuit edition.

LOL LOL LOL..I can go on to more. But it is all around us..not just the military advertisements on the boob tube. It is called a boob tube for a good reason. I'm not all that impressed with the civilian world either...especially the body politic..who also finance our public education system. Are some of you getting the point here..connecting the dots??
Much of public education here=television education....how I FEEL!! Emotional train wreckism.
It is pretty obvious by some of the postings on ATS/BTS.

THe military is a good beginning for many people to a bigger world. Not staying in town and flipping burgers or working at Wally World or Lowes.
It is a beginning. Even for people who have gone to college it is a beginning to a bigger world.
No one promises you a bed of roses....or the choicest morsels off the plate/table. Life requires RISK at times ...unless one thinks they deserve to be on the breast forever...LOL LOL..entitlements.

Thanks,
Orangetom