Why is southern pride considered racism?

I'm WHITE, i live in THE SOUTH, and i still look at people who fly rebel flags as racist. sorry, just speaking from personal experiences. 94.5 percent of the people "flyin rebel flags" that i've met in my 17 years in "the south" are racist. if you consist of that 5.5 percent that i havn't met, just give it up dude

I really have aproblem with some people who bring up history when it suits them and disregards the same fact when it does not.

For those who believe that what happened with Jim Crow and segregation (which was sickening), it was not just white people from the north that came down here and marched in the Civil Rights Movement, there were white southerners doing the same.

Also with the forced end of reconstruction under President Grant's last term and might very well have stopped all of what happened after.

And last but not least, I know alot of white, proud southerners who voted for a black man for President, myself included.

I'm sorry, but every time somebody says that the stars and bars represent southern pride is silly, the flag was a symbol of what....
the confederacy, which decided to secede. tons of people died for this stupid move, and as far as a rebellion, the south was supported by england, which in case you don't realize the confederacy was rich white people who exploited slaves for free labor, and the Union won, shut up.
Be proud of being a American. not traitors.

reply to post by davion


During reconstruction in my state there were over 800,000 acres confiscated,divided into 40 acre tracts and given to black families.Many of these families sold that land and their mule to carpetbaggers for $40.

That created a lot of anomosity between the people who had had their land confiscated and the black families and carpetbaggers who recieved the land.The federal edict whereby a former confederate soldiers were refused the right to vote in their home state yet black males and imported northerners could vote.This caused quite a problem,with the former confederate soldiers.To have their land taken from them and to have their pride dashed by disallowing them the vote.That is where the main rift started between the black and white residents of the south.

It's fairly easy to see where anger transference would take place.The white southerners were mad at the Federal government.However the new residents on what once was their land was a visual reminder.That led to contempt and segregation by both races.

You really need to read a little more to get the whole story.Every cause has an effect.For every action there is a reaction.The problems we see today didn't start in the 1900's thru 1970's the majority started during the reconstruction era.

Why do you need a flag to identify your pride? Why don't you identify with yourself as an individual? Why are you proud at all considering that it is very random that you are from the South?

It's ridiculous.

You're filled with southern pride eh? Just so you know, you live in the United States of America. Why can't you be proud of that? Seems like your flag of choice is the confederate flag. Keep in mind the majority of Americans fly Old Glory. Your flag only represents red necks and racists. Sounds to me like you're trying to rattle some cages. This is our country. Stars and Stripes baby. Though I did love the General Lee.

i think flying a confederate flag in this day and age is insensitive to those people who may have been affected by the negative issues associated with the flags history. i can understand having, and wanting to share, pride in where you come from, but there are many other ways to symbolize your regional pride to others besides displaying the confederate flag. considering that the flag does have such negative connotations wouldn't it be a better idea not to fly one? just to make sure people dont mistake your "southern pride" for blatant racism?...why not just get an alabama hat? or fly an american flag?

this ties into the point that maybe we should be more proud of the earth we live on than what little piece of it we call home. were all humans (mostly) and we should start acting like it...the whole gaza strip mess, US in iraq, it sounds awfully cheesy but, cant we all just get along?

reply to post by daddyroo45


Which still doesn't make the South, or the Confederate flag look any better.

"Some Southerners can't vote because of carpetbaggers! So lets disenfranchise an entire population and keep them from voting instead!"



[edit on 1-1-2009 by davion]

reply to post by davion



I can see that there would be no way to give you a satisfactory answer as you are not interested in the why and how it occurred. There is a lot of bitterness tasted with the thirst for knowledge. Within human endeavors there is no perfection. Each step is travail. The lessons learned come at great cost. Still the greatest cost is a personal loss for those who choose to ignore all the contributing factors, with a myopic point of view.

There was once a great man who stated that, ”The truth shall set you free”. There was also another great man who stated that,”Ignorance is the chain that binds us in our search for truth”.

Look regardless of the history, regardless of individual opinion the confederate flag has become a de facto symbol of racism. We can all argue till we're blue in the face and both groups that have chimed in on this have made some excellent points, but in the end it is rather pointless.

I get that the flag has other meanings to some, and living in the south, I have noticed that generally the people who are flying the confederate flags are in fact racist. Those types of individuals no doubt helped form the general view of the flag, but in the end it is viewed as a racist symbol by many. You don't have to agree with it, you can scream about the ignorance of others, but in the end using that flag in any capacity is insensitive. You can choose to accept that, or not. That's your decision. However I will never agree with the flag's use, outside of history books, and documentaries.

Originally posted by daddyroo45
I can see that there would be no way to give you a satisfactory answer as you are not interested in the why and how it occurred.

No, because I don't care much for Southern apologetics, nor the "Lost Cause" rhetoric that permeates this thread.

Carpetbaggers during the 19th century might have been one of the major factors behind the initial unrest between whites and blacks in Southern states, but that doesn't justify or serve as an excuse as to how blacks were treated in the 20th century.

Sure as hell wasn't about land and carpetbaggers by that time, it was just good old fashion racism and that's why many people have never and will never respect a Confederate flag.

The fact that the Confederacy fought to uphold an economic system of people owning people doesn't help the flag either.

In the end people see it differently, but I've explained why I'll never see it as anything but symbolizing racism and slavery.

[edit on 1-1-2009 by davion]

Interesting thread, great posts people. I don't know much about the civil war, and the confederate flag, but this thread is really making me want to research it more. I never knew an African slave had cost more then a few Irishmen. And thinking about it now, it actually makes sense because there were many more Irish then blacks, and they went through alot of trouble getting us here, lol.

d(^_^)b good thread.

Truth here on the cause of the war.

Most of the problems come from groups using those symbols for many years to represent racism and those symbols will never escape that now.

In South Carolina you eat turnip greens (for dollars) and black eyed peas (for change). It is supposed to help you financially in the upcoming year. I ate those today.

As far as I'm concerned..

The battle flag of the rebels shouldn't be flown in the United States of America.

Period.

The southern states lost the right to display the Stars and Bars when the C.S.A lost the war, and flying their BATTLE FLAG is even worse than merely flying the Stars and Bars because of the meaning behind it.

The Battle Flag was flown by soldiers of the CSA. Are YOU or anyone else a soldier of the CSA? No, you are not, so quit flying the damn flag and just get a big belt buckle like they do in Texas.

Doesnt "southern pride" especially w reference to the Confederate Flag refer to the southern way of life before the US Civil War? And wasnt that lifestyle based on the socio-economic condition of human slavery? Doesnt human slavery generally presuppose a racial superiority....? A southern pride is as inconsistent with union pride as patriot pride was to british pride at the time of the Revolutionary War methinks.....I am not making a value judgment on the rightness or wrongness for going to war in either case from the perspective of state's or colonial rights but it is hard not to make a moral judgment on the issue of slavery.

See, its all about what so called "Southern Pride" represents. Being proud of the Confederacy means you believe in what they fought for. One of those beliefs being "Slavery" with slaves being black. You may think you are guilty by association but thats incorrect. Whites thought they were superior to blacks thats why they were slaves. So to me your pride makes me think that you agree with their hatred towards minorities.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere



You are right on the money. The Son's of Confederate Group has members who are black, yes I said black; whose ancestors fought (and some died) for their homeland in the south. To be southern is much more than skin color. My great great granddad died fighting for his homeland in the south. I am proud of that. Being southern is a way of life. Americans are made up of individuals and the stereotypes used to pigeon-hole people just breeds ignorance and intolerance. There is nothing wrong with the battle flag of the old confederacy (Stars and bars). What it symbolizes to one is not the necessarily the same as for another.

The civil war may be a closed chapter in the minds of many Americans but to those of us whose lives where changed long before we were born, by those events, of those times; it is still very fresh and very real to us. Remember this; that very un-civil war was fought mostly on our soil and the largest cost in lives % wise was born by the the south. I am 51 and I remember my Granddad telling how his dad, who was left without a father because of that war, wore rags on his feet in the winter because they did not have shoes. My Grandmother told us her Grandmother and Great Aunts hid their bacon in the ash hopper so it would not be stolen by the raiding parties of Jay Hawkers (Roving bands of outlaws).

Out of my close family of that generation I know of five including my great great granddad who fought for the south and thee of the five did not live to return.

Yes that was another day and another time but I'm not going to forget it. It has been said "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." ATTRIBUTION: George Santayana (1863?1952), U.S. philosopher, poet.

The Confederate flag is a reminder of these things and it also is a monument to those who gave the greatest measure and paid the ultimate cost for a cause they thought worth the cost.

Southern and would not have it any other way.

reply to post by Doug Gaveld



First off let me say that I am not racist. A good person is a good person, no matter what color of skin they may have.People are just people some good some bad and some in the middle

So it is alright to be insensitive to the people that show there southern pride. That right there is the problem. It is ok to insensitive to the south, their views don't mean anything because they were the ones who had slaves. Segregation was horrible slavery is horrible, the Klan is horrible, and I hate the fact the various hate groups use the flag. Their use of the flag changes the meaning and adds hate.

The American flag ,especially after this war, will be viewed the same way by most of the world. America used to be the greatest nation in the world, but now it is only a bully that believes it deserves everything. I don’t have much pride in America because of the bs politicians that are running the country to the ground.
So does is that going to me that the whole of the US are going to be racist towards everyone else. But that is what the flag will represent.

Most people on this site are tired or the oppressive government that are ever so slightly chip away at the rights of Americans. Just as the south was tired of the government taking more control over them. If any major upheaval happens against the government today, it will lead back to a succession , and a new Confederacy will be born. And I can promise you it will be northerners and southerners in that confederacy. Then you will understand the real reason the south wanted out and agree with them.

Hunted this one is for you. Hunter I do not know if you believe in the war you are fighting or not. I will assume you do agree with it. The Sothern’s fought for their freedom from the oppressive feds that were over taxing them. Even people in the north thought they were superior to the blacks at the time. If you think that only the south had slaves you are being ignorant. Please refer to seentomuchs post on page to and see what the “savior” of the slaves said about the African Americans.

And with that I leave.
Hunter I hope you all the best and safe travels while you are serving your country and to all of your fellow soldiers may they come home safe. I thank all of you for your sacrifices for your country.

[edit on 2-1-2009 by Ant4AU]

reply to post by Ant4AU


Have you ever heard of the gadsden flag why not just fly it and not have to worry about the stereotype? further more it represents independence more than the confederate flag and was one of the first american flags with its origins being in the south (charleston SC)