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posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 07:30 AM
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reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd
 


I feel for you actually.

There's times you want to scream at people yanking at pulleys uncontrolled,lifting weights too big,just for the 'numbers',with bad form.
Basically accidents waiting to happen.

I have to go with Devo here guys.Some people just can't be told,don't want to be told,are just plain stupid.

I'd be happy if one certain bottomhole would just quit going to my gym,taking up the machines and doing nothing but sitting txting his mates.

When you 'work out',there is a certain degree of testosterone involved,and throwing people out of windows is frowned upon



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd
 




Yea, you're right. It's sad. Walking through my gym on a normal busy afternoon, I would say that 80%-90% of exercises being performed are either pointless or done with incorrect/dangerous form. And the worst part is that's including the other trainers on the floor.



If it's so sad, why don't you do something about it? If you do nothing, aren't you part of the problem? If you walk around and see this and are trained as to what is correct and incorrect, aren't you just as sad for letting it go on?

Complainers: I love them. I'll take some shlub that tries but may not know what they are doing over a guy that knows everything and does nothing to fix a problem any day of the week.



If you are a trainer or have been a trainer then you would know this simple fact. Many people don't want to be "helped" because they already know how to do everything. They don't distinguish between good movement and bad movement. As long as they can continue moving a certain amount of weight or doing 1000 crunches they are happy and have no idea that they are probably doing more damage than good.

This is the basic attitude that you get. "If I can bench 315, but I can't do 5 pullups or touch my toes who cares? I look strong so I must be in great physical condition." WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! Same for women and abs. Just because you have strong abs, doesn't mean they know when to activate properly.

If I were a basketball player it wouldn't matter if could jump high, if I couldn't rebound, shoot, or play defense. It's the same for your skeletal muscular system. Just because they are strong doesn't mean they do their job!

Everyone should be able to accomplish an overhead squat, but rarely do I see anyone who can do it without compensation.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Mav3rick]



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by Mav3rick
 



Great Post by the way, I'm starting to enjoy.......I think we have very similar training methods.


As long as they can continue moving a certain amount of weight or doing 1000 crunches.....


This one gets me everytime. I think crunches just increase chance of injury.

What is strength? When someone asks you if you're strong, what do you gauge strength with? The definition of strength is the ability to move heavy weight. Power, on the other hand, is the ability to move a weight quickly. And then of course we can't forget about endurance, the ability to perform multiple reps.

Depending on the athlete you ask, you will get a different answer as to what "strength" is. Armstrong would relate to endurance. An NFL receiver would relate to to power. And of course a strength competitor would relate to strength.

I tell you what, the Overhead Squat is one of my favorite exercises. Talk about a full body exercise, especially core. Good stuff.

-Dev



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 04:11 PM
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Yea, I think most people use the term "strength" as a general term. Since strength is the maximum amount of force exerted at one specific time, it usually doesn't apply in most instances. What most people are looking for in athletics is power production.

Yea, turning out to be an interesting thread. It's too bad we hi-jacked it from the OP
I haven't seen him post for a while.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by Mav3rick
 


Hijacked?........Ooops

At least we do it with style.
Plus he's gettin' some points out of it.

-Dev

[edit on 11-12-2008 by DevolutionEvolvd]



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd
 




Wow, really? You obviously have no idea how large most trainer's egos are. Besides, you can't just walk up to a trainer and say, "Hey, you're doing that all wrong buddy...?"

I help people that I feel will listen, but once you've dealt with the typical guy who thinks, just because he read a book and one of his buddies is a body builder, he doesn't need advice.

I also do independent work. Can't stand gyms.

What's up with the accusations? So, you want me to do something about it? Ok. You jog on a daily basis right? Well, unless you're doing it for fun only, I would stop.

, Now let's see you bounce back and attack me for not knowing what I'm talking about cause you've been running for years........Pfffftt.



You said 80% to 90% of the people in gyms are doing things wrong. I would assume that these are not all trainers, correct? Then why not use your superior knowledge to help those non-trainers? You say trainers have big egos. You appear to fit the mold. You would rather watch someone do an exercise wrong and laugh about it than get off your ass and do something to help the person. This is your chosen profession by the way. Doesn't say much for your dedication to your craft. Did you become a trainer so you could become a perfect exerciser and laugh at everyone else? Or, was it because you wanted to help people? If you did it to help people, then help them. If you didn't become a trainer to help people, then you are in the wrong profession.

I'm not sure why you brought up the subject of running as this discussion has nothing to do with running. Nice try though in terms of changing the subject and trying to take the attention off of yourself and put it on me. Well done. Put all that energy into your chosen profession and maybe you can actually do some good.

I've been going to gyms off and on for about twenty years. I have NEVER once seen anyone not appreciate getting advice from someone that knows more about the specific exercises they are doing. The problem isn't that the average gym member has an ego. The problem is they have pride which makes it impossible for them to ask for help. When help is offered, it is always appreciated. The problem with most trainers is they don't want to give out free advice. "Pay me and I will tell you how to do that correctly. This isn't a charity.....blah blah blah." That's the problem with "trainers."

The owner of my gym wonders why he is struggling. It's not rocket science.




posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd
 



You say trainers have big egos. You appear to fit the mold. You would rather watch someone do an exercise wrong and laugh about it than get off your ass and do something to help the person.

"Pay me and I will tell you how to do that correctly. This isn't a charity.....blah blah blah." That's the problem with "trainers."




Two things. #1 I don't see anyone sitting back laughing at the ignorance of others. The problem is that so many people have so much junk knowledge about exercise floating around from magazines and infomercials that they have no real concept of what would be in their best interest to do. All they care about is having a 6 pack instead of focusing on how to make the body operate in the manner that it is supposed to.

You can show someone something that is in their best interest and when they see it's not going to rip their abs to shreds in 2 seconds flat, they will go back to doing what they always do out of habit. Training for optimum function of the human body and bodybuilding are two totally different things. 90% of the people out there can't distinguish the difference they only care about how they look. If they are not going to take my information to heart, why should I continue to try and give them advice?

#2 When you go and tell your boss you are going to work for no pay, then we can discuss your noble ideals of rendering services for free. I have to eat and put a roof over my head. Training isn't a road to great financial success. I do it because I believe in what I'm doing and I want to help those who want to help themselves.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by Mav3rick
 




#2 When you go and tell your boss you are going to work for no pay, then we can discuss your noble ideals of rendering services for free.


Who said to work for free? You can't give someone free advice on one machine or exercise?

In my work, there is plenty I do for "no pay." You lose sight of the big picture. I will explain in several ways:

#1 You help people and then some will pay you to continue to help them
#2 You help people and then they tell their friends to go to you when they need a trainer. It's called a referral.
#3 You put out positive energy and you get positive energy back
#4 You put out negative energy and you get negative energy back
#5 Which will give you more success: #3 or #4?

You say being a "trainer" doesn't pay much? It will be pay whatever you want it to. There are trainers out there making plenty of money. There are plenty more that don't try to make money and thus, don't make much money. You don't make much because that is the path that you create for yourself. It's called a self-fulfilling prophecy.




posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
You said 80% to 90% of the people in gyms are doing things wrong. I would assume that these are not all trainers, correct? Then why not use your superior knowledge to help those non-trainers? You say trainers have big egos. You appear to fit the mold. You would rather watch someone do an exercise wrong and laugh about it than get off your ass and do something to help the person. This is your chosen profession by the way. Doesn't say much for your dedication to your craft. Did you become a trainer so you could become a perfect exerciser and laugh at everyone else? Or, was it because you wanted to help people? If you did it to help people, then help them. If you didn't become a trainer to help people, then you are in the wrong profession.


I became a trainer so I could come to ATS and prove everyone wrong. While laughing of course.

I'm very open to advice from people that know what they're talking about. I'm willing to listen to anyone. In this field of work, one has to be willing to adapt. If you someone wants to tell me how to get better results faster, I'm all ears, as long as it's done safely. People at the gym, other than beginners, typically "know" what's best for them and think that what they just read in Men's Health magazine is the best and the only thing that works. Period.

I really don't see how you're in a position to question my dedication when your argument is based on assumption.



I'm not sure why you brought up the subject of running as this discussion has nothing to do with running. Nice try though in terms of changing the subject and trying to take the attention off of yourself and put it on me. Well done. Put all that energy into your chosen profession and maybe you can actually do some good.


:shk: Well, it has been you telling us to give advice to everyone performing poor exercises. It has been you asking us to tell people when they're wrong. So I thought I would tell you how inefficient jogging is.



I've been going to gyms off and on for about twenty years. I have NEVER once seen anyone not appreciate getting advice from someone that knows more about the specific exercises they are doing. The problem isn't that the average gym member has an ego. The problem is they have pride which makes it impossible for them to ask for help. When help is offered, it is always appreciated. The problem with most trainers is they don't want to give out free advice. "Pay me and I will tell you how to do that correctly. This isn't a charity.....blah blah blah." That's the problem with "trainers."


Like I said, I'll gladly help beginners. They want to be helped. Veteran weight lifters, however, do not. When help is offered it is not always appreciated. I see it all the time. I've been walking through the gym before, only to be stopped by a couple guys who had two different view on cardio exercising. Both guys had arguments to back up their ideas and wanted to know who was right. Neither one was. When I told them this they laughed and walked away because each one "knew" he as right.

I think you're just angry because we hijacked this thread instead of yours....


-Dev

Edit: Because I'm independent and train part time, I'm more focused on client testimonials than I am about getting paid. I train people and provide nutrition counseling free all the time and when someone asks me for advice, I give it, for free.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by DevolutionEvolvd]



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
reply to post by Mav3rick
 




#2 When you go and tell your boss you are going to work for no pay, then we can discuss your noble ideals of rendering services for free.


Who said to work for free? You can't give someone free advice on one machine or exercise?



You are making an assumption that I advocate using machines at all. I don't. The efficacy of machine training is propogated by those who make machines. Anyone who knows anything about the body will recognize that sitting on a machine in a fixed plane of motion is junk.

There is no WAY that I can teach someone to deadlift correctly with a quick bit of advice. You are falling under the assumption that just because you can move a weight you are doing it right. Some people need weeks even months of beggining movement training to even be able to maintain a safe neutral spinal position.

You are exactly the kind of person that I am talking about who clearly doesn't understand the implications of correct function of the human body. It takes time to learn because movement is a skill.

You think you can bat .500 in the MLB because you go to one day of batting practice? It's the same principle. People need to go back to the VERY BEGINNING to retrain their movement patterns and they don't want to do that. They want to keep doing the advanced stuff when in all reality they aren't capable of doing it.

What aren't you understanding? Movement dysfunction is a very complex issue that can't be solved with 5 minutes of free advice. The only thing I could give them in 5 minutes is just enough information to make them even more dangerous to themselves.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
reply to post by Mav3rick
 



#1 You help people and then some will pay you to continue to help them
#2 You help people and then they tell their friends to go to you when they need a trainer. It's called a referral.
#3 You put out positive energy and you get positive energy back
#4 You put out negative energy and you get negative energy back
#5 Which will give you more success: #3 or #4?



lol it seems YOU are the one changing the subject here. My sales practices and referrel methods are not the issue at hand here. I said I didn't make much money, I wasn't complaining. I make enough that I can live within my chosen lifestyle.




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