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Originally posted by chickenshoes
He grew up to become an alcoholic/addict.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
This may sound harsh, but I wish abortion had been an option for her at the time. It would have save 3 generations of people a lot of heartache.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
While it is unfortunate that you had a bad experience, I can tell you from first had experience that PP and others do not handle it this way. They thoroughly explain the procedure to you, answer any questions you might have,
explain what other options you have,give you time to think further if needed, and even offer the services pre or post, of an on site counselor if you feel you want or need it.
And, they also make sure you have a pack of bc pills and a prescription for them in your hand before you leave the building.
Sometimes birth control fails. My son was the result of a birth control failure.
My husband and I absolutely cannot afford another child. Now, given that I have first hand experience with birth control failure (which we use religiously) would you suggest that I stop sleeping with my long time mate?
Originally posted by chickenshoes
Umm, look, you don't know my dad, but I do.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
He has tried to commit suicide before.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
He was so desperate for a drink at one point that he chugged a bottle of Listerene. Does that sound like he had much of a choice to you?
Originally posted by chickenshoes
I am so sick to death of people who don't know what they are talking about insisting that alcoholics and addicts choose to live such a sick, miserable existence. But, that is off topic.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
I have not become an addict, more probably because I did not have the life that he did.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
The entire point of me sharing that story, was that being forced to bear a child can have terrible consequences which affect people throughout multiple generations.
He had the same choice I had.
Here's the kicker. I no longer live in a sick, miserable existence. Looking back, I'm glad and grateful that I survived because since then I found out there's a lot of things worth living for. I look at my family and cannot possibly imagine what it would've been like had I not known them. I could not see at the time I was in my deep depression that I would ever have a good day again, or fall in love, or become a parent to an awesome child...but I did.
You still have that choice, or rather made that choice already.
Each person lives life with the choices we make. Sometimes good, sometimes bad, but the hope is that we make enough of the right ones to experience a life worth living.
From someone who has made a couple of good choices since my edge-of-death situation, I know what the pain feels like and will do everything I can help others make that right choice. I think Clearskies has exactly the same motive. So rather than "kill the baby, life will probably suck anyway", my message is "give all you can to make that baby experience a wonderful life...even better than the one you've had". If someone tries hard enough, they just may be surprised how capable of a person they really are. Where there is life, there is hope.
Originally posted by asmeone2
And to chime in to the debate that the 2 of you had going on, I know a few women who have given babies up for adoption, whom I think have perhaps been more negatively effected than those who have had abortions.
Originally posted by saint4God
Originally posted by asmeone2
And to chime in to the debate that the 2 of you had going on, I know a few women who have given babies up for adoption, whom I think have perhaps been more negatively effected than those who have had abortions.
Ever question why? In both cases, the baby is given up. The difference is in one choice the baby lives.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
Oh really, so you mean to tell me that you have been in his exact shoes? That you know what his motivations were at the time? Were you there when all those times we had to rush him to the emergency room because he had chugged nyquil, or drank mouthwash, or od'd on benadryl or fiorinal? Interesting that you seem to think you know all about it. Typical.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
Great for you, but he did not have that option. Have you been through someone telling you every day that they resent your very existence?
Originally posted by chickenshoes
Unless you have, you have no way of knowing what he went through, and still does go through. I admire that he has come as far as he has, considering his life's experiences.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
Well, it wasn't for lack of trying that I have not become an addict. If I had been through what my dad had, I think I might well have become like him. I really don't know.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
My message was not kill the baby life will probably suck anyway. As I have said multiple times before, but it just never seems to sink in, it can be detrimental to force someone to do anything against their will, whether it be forcing someone to have an abortion, or forcing someone to have a child.
Did I say exact? I said I know what it's like to be suicidal. To be without hope. To say 'typical' puts me into a stereotype, does it not?
Yes. In addition, including someone I really really liked tell me they wished I were dead. It was twenty years ago. I didn't forget.
I also married someone who attempted suicide a few years ago. Although they will claim it had nothing to do with me, I cannot help but feel that there was something I could've done different. I'm not sure which feeling is worse...hopelessness in myself or feeling like the cause of someone else wanting to kill his/herself.
I'm glad you've chosen to live life free of addiction.
Sometimes you have to encourage something to do things they don't want to do. As a parent, I understand the value of disciplining my child. Neither of us like it, but the result is good.
I'm not here to list my credentials to explain why I'm qualified to speak on suicide and the like. It doesn't take downing a bottle of pills to know how it feels.
Even if we're forced into a hellish situation, we still have the right to choose what we do as an individual.
Still waiting on the answers of these two:
Can you recall anyone that you (or your father) may have helped in all these years of living? Anyone you've made a positive impact on?
Originally posted by chickenshoes
I took you to mean that being an alcoholic was his choice, and from my personal experience, he did not have a choice. Your response is typical of someone who has never seen this firsthand. If you had been there when my dad did all those things, you might understand why I feel as I do about it being a choice vs. a compulsion.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
Really, so your very own mother rejected you totally?
Originally posted by chickenshoes
Look, I'm really sorry you have had those experiences, but unless you are my dad, you cannot understand what is in his mind, and the difficulty of his life.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
I don't know either. I'm sorry that happened. I feel for both of you.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
Well, as I said before, maybe you misunderstood, I have done many foolish things in my life, such as drink and take drugs. Fortunately, I have not become addicted and now only have a few beers occasionally. It seem that for now, I can handle it ok, but my dad was not so fortunate. Does drinking Nyquil and mouthwash sound like the man had a choice in the matter? Yes, of course, he had to make a decision to physically pick up the bottle and put it to his mouth, but when you have multiple diagnosable mental disorders, plus an addictive personality, plus a history of childhood abuse, it's not a black and white situation anymore. Dismiss his disease all you want, that doesn't make you correct.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
True, but you're talking about children here, not grown people who have a right to make their own decisions. What happened to your opinion that we all must make choices and live with the consequences of our actions?
Originally posted by chickenshoes
I don't know about that. Personal experience goes a long way, which I have in spades in the alcoholism department.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
Really, so my dad, as a tiny little helpless boy, had a choice in the matter? I don't think so.
Originally posted by chickenshoesMy dad, honestly, no. He has always been sick, needy and dependent, as well as angry and sad, which to me underscores the consequences of his mother feeling forced to have an unwanted child. It had a terrible effect on him and his subsequent family.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
Me, well, I'm fortunate in that my mom is a good and patient person, and therefore even though my dad has been horribly sick for years and years, I could depend on her for stability and love in my childhood and beyond.
Through her love and example, yes, certainly I have been able to make a difference in the lives of others, however small that might be. I am quite grateful to be here.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
But, as I said before, my point in even telling that story was that forcing someone into a situation they don't want, regardless of what that is, can be very detrimental, even for future generations.
The key word is "live". I would not let a friend walk off a cliff, I love them too much for that. They could probably sue me for preventing them from making that choice, but so be it.
Some things happen that we cannot prevent, but how we react to them is what's most important.
Always? Not one positive effect on anyone?
I'm glad she chose life for you. Even if at the time of considering abortion she may have not felt the love then as she does now or maybe felt she didn't know you, I'm confident she feels life was the right choice as well.
I met a friend I hadn't seen since high school. She said, "If you hadn't come up to me on my first day of school and welcoming me to sit at the table with you and your friends, life for me here would've been miserable." I didn't recall the event...but she did. One hello, friendly smile and invitation and her life changed and I never realized it. I believe at the end of this life we will see the chain reaction of all that we have said and done to everyone. If not for those good ripple-effects...what kind of world would it be I wonder.
Life hurts, but by virtue of what you've told me of yours, it is well worth the pain. You're a survivor, a friend, and a counselor to those in need.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
I understand what you're saying, however, I make a point not to interfere in the lives of my friends. Yes, I would probably stop my friend from walking off a cliff, but anything up to that point, in my opinion, is their business. I may offer my opinion if I am concerned, but my friends are adults, and are capable of making their own decisions.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
Yes, this is true up to a point, but when you are so sick and deranged like my dad was, you reach a point where the choice is out of your hands. Do you blame people for their own mental illness if they don'tdrink or take drugs?
Originally posted by chickenshoes
No?
Originally posted by chickenshoes
Well, my dad is mentally ill, has been diagnosed by a doctor. The difference is that he drank and took drugs, and that was all part of his illness.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
Always? Not one positive effect on anyone?
I'm being quite honest when I say no. I can't think of anything positive or selfless that he has done for anyone in his whole life.
I will say that even though he was blitzed every single night, he would still get up and go to work every day, and he never missed work even though he had to have been hung over as all hell. So he did provide a roof and food and clothing.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
My mom always wanted me, I was on purpose, for her abortion was never a question.
And, I'm glad that I didn't have to suffer like my dad.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
Yes, this is true, and it is the very reason why I always strive to be grateful for my life. It is only through the loving kindness of others that I am even here. I could just as easily been born in the situation my dad was born into, and I am grateful to have had the life that I did, imperfect though it was.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
Our words can harm or help, and leave lasting memories and effects, just like his mothers words did to him.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
Yes, it can, but it has beautiful parts too. And to me, part of the greatest beauty of being a human is the right to choose how we conduct our lives. The worst ugliness is when that right is taken away.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
Right now, we are free to decide whether we want to have a baby or not, and, if we are wrong in that decision, we will find out eventually. But, in the meantime, aborted babies are not forgotten, imo. That energy goes back to God until it decides to come back.
Originally posted by chickenshoes
At any rate, I think it might be easier if I allowed people to tell me what to do and what to think, but my experiences in life wouldn't be nearly as valuable to me. I learn best by doing, even if I make a mistake, and the hard lessons are what have made me stronger.
Saint, I do think you are a very kind and compassionate person, and your faith seems to be very important to you.
I am glad that you have such strong beliefs, and I admire that, even if I don't agree with it.