Ebert's review/expel of EXPELLED

I've been accused of refusing to review Ben Stein's documentary "Expelled,"
a defense of Creationism, because of my belief in the theory of evolution.
Here is my response.

This is way more then a movie/documentary review.
I'm curious what people think of this king of cinema critiques, take on this film.

A fair assessment or a smear... or maybe a little of both... and why?








[edit on 4-12-2008 by The All Seeing I]

Good words. Normally, I would care less about Expelled. You type it in on Youtube and 2/3rds of the front page searches are videos debunking it. What really gets me though is when Stein has the balls to say Hitler did the Holocaust because of Evolution. It was an utterly disgusting appeal and despite what Stein says, a trivialization of one of the worst massacres in human history.

Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed reviewed on Rottentomatoes.com.

Rating: 10% (That's worse than Catwomen)

Consensus: Full of patronizing, poorly structured arguments, Expelled is a cynical political stunt in the guise of a documentary.

Synopsis: Though Ben Stein is perhaps most famous for his sleep-inducing drone in FERRIS BUELLER'S DAY OFF or for his eponymous game show, he is also a highly regarded New York Times columnist and was a speechwriter for both Richard Nixon and Gerald... Though Ben Stein is perhaps most famous for his sleep-inducing drone in FERRIS BUELLER'S DAY OFF or for his eponymous game show, he is also a highly regarded New York Times columnist and was a speechwriter for both Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford during their presidencies. For EXPELLED: NO INTELLIGENCE ALLOWED, he needs all his powers of persuasion as he calls attention to the plight of exiled scientists and professors. In this documentary, Stein travels the world and speaks to men and women who have lost their jobs and their standings in the scientific world because of their association with intelligent design. EXPELLED uses the Berlin Wall as a metaphor and asserts that these people have been unjustly ousted, merely for speaking their minds. It carefully explains the differences between creationism and intelligent design and demonstrates that the latter is a belief held by people of all deity-based faiths, not just Christianity. It also devotes time to the connections between Darwinism and Hitler's regime. The film's climax features Stein going head-to-head with Richard Dawkins, a renowned atheist and author of the bestseller THE GOD DELUSION. Obviously, neither man budges in his firmly held beliefs, but it's fascinating to watch a debate between two undeniably intelligent men, regardless of whose side you're on. EXPELLED doesn't spend most of its time debating intelligent design and evolution. Instead it focuses largely on how the debate itself and its proponents have been ignored or pushed out of classrooms and academia. Filmmaker Nathan Frankowski inserts both original animations and clips of famous films (including PLANET OF THE APES and THE WIZARD OF OZ) to further illustrate his point. Though critics may find fault with EXPELLED for its one-sidedness, it's no more biased than any of Michael Moore's critically lauded documentaries.

RottenTomatoes

That's a dismal review.

Originally posted by The All Seeing I


A fair assessment or a smear... or maybe a little of both... and why?

[edit on 4-12-2008 by The All Seeing I]

Both. You have "the smartest guy in the world" offering us an hour and a half of creationism with NO PROOF of any kind in it. Seems to me that no matter the topic, or your belief on it, when you have a guy that touts himself as the walking encyclopedia that he is, then his movie about something he claims is true, should have a fact or two in it to actually back up that premise. It does not. Ben stein is boring and little more than and idealogue with an agenda and no modus operendi. How would you review over an hor of "Bueller, Bueller, Bueller, Bueller, there is a god, he created everything, I have nothing to base that on but what a bunch of people like me believe but that is enough to make an entire moving trying to prove something with no proof right? Anyone? anyone? anyone? anyone?"

I would feel the exact same way about a movie written by stephen hawkings about physics that never once offered an experiment, study, observation to back that up as well as any movie on evolution by richard dawkins that failed to ever present any verifiable facts or proof. If you want to play smartest guy in the room, then you ought to make sure your movie is also the smartest one in the room. Even religulous comes closer to making a real case of anything and that was not trying to and was written by a comedien. "Smart" people like Ben Stein should stick to reading the lines given him by hollywood or stick to writing right wing clap trap. The two do not mesh well at all.

P.S.

Rating: 10% (That's worse than Catwomen)

- that is just too funny that this bit of info is now in my brain.

[edit on 4-12-2008 by angel of lightangelo]

reply to post by angel of lightangelo


[*coughcoughstarthepostcoughcough*]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by angel of lightangelo

 

[*coughcoughstarthepostcoughcough*]

my bad. I hope that makes it better.

reply to post by angel of lightangelo




noobfun calls me a star-whore.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by angel of lightangelo

 

noobfun calls me a star-whore.

You are...




To the OP:

I'll let the pro's tear it apart...


BTW - I just love how Stein set everyone up for failure in the movie - even himself...

Narcissim at its worst...

reply to post by chapter29


You think he was bad in the movie, by George, the things he said outside of the movie were worse.

reply to post by The All Seeing I



????????


OT's old for sure...

Not old enough to KNOW about how OLD the universe...

But OT can assurre you/readers...


I WILL NOT SUBMIT MY WORLDVIEW...

to Roger Ebert and Rotten Tomatoes !!!!

Come smart boys, ur better than this!

reply to post by OldThinker


Except that the rottentomatoes review was a consolidation of around 40 different reviews which scored it an average of 3/10. Just click the link and see that all the users who came on rated it at zero.

You should try to show us a secular review that scored it high.



[edit on 4/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by FSBlueApocalypse


Deny Ignorance hey? Hitler did do what he did because of Darwin's Book on the Preservation of Favoured Races, also know as the Origin of Species...

This is a documented FACT and you show how little you know and how lazy you are to not look it up.

The largest Hitler Library in the World has his list of victims of course the Jews on the bottom were 10% Ape in Hitlers own writing. Hitlers book was gonna be dedicated to Darwin, and Engle's was...

You should learn before speaking, that's what we call Denying Ignorance. And IF evolution were true then Hitler would have been correct in taking out the lower races as Darwin's book was named so aptly...

I saw Expelled and didn't think it was that bad. I think it wasn't so much trying to prove Creationism as it was trying to bring to light that in the scientific community one cannot even try and explore it.

I think that if scientist can spend millions a year on Evolution then surely there should be room for exploring Creationism. How can you prove one side if you fail to acknowledge the opposing arguement?

reply to post by theindependentjournal

Deny Ignorance hey? Hitler did do what he did because of Darwin's Book on the Preservation of Favoured Races, also know as the Origin of Species...

Yes and...? Oh that's it huh. tsk. Remember how the Americans dropped the A-Bomb on Hiroshima? Does that make nuclear physics evil? No... Nor does what Hitler did make evolution evil. Don't be so stupid.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by FSBlueApocalypse

 

Deny Ignorance hey? Hitler did do what he did because of Darwin's Book on the Preservation of Favoured Races, also know as the Origin of Species...

This is a documented FACT and you show how little you know and how lazy you are to not look it up.

The largest Hitler Library in the World has his list of victims of course the Jews on the bottom were 10% Ape in Hitlers own writing. Hitlers book was gonna be dedicated to Darwin, and Engle's was...

You should learn before speaking, that's what we call Denying Ignorance. And IF evolution were true then Hitler would have been correct in taking out the lower races as Darwin's book was named so aptly...

Oh independentjournal, for someone who has an avatar complaining about corporate news you sure don't bother to do fact checking much yourself? Then again I know I've had to remind you at least three times since I've been on here that the Supreme Court ruled creationism wasn't allowed in schools so that answers that.

Ever read Mein Kampf? Hitler's interpretation of "Evolution" would be on par with me thinking the Bible should prove all Christians walk on water. Races was interchangeable with species, especially during Darwin's time.

It's no different than when Muslims use the Quran as justification for suicide bombings, or Christians using the Bible to take away our rights.

What Stein was implying was that the actual Scientific theory of evolution was what Hitler was using, among many other reasons, for the holocaust.

[edit on 12/4/2008 by FSBlueApocalypse]

"Deny Ignorance hey? Hitler did do what he did because of Darwin's Book on the Preservation of Favoured Races, also know as the Origin of Species..."

No, Hitler did what he did because of HIS INTERPRETATION of Darwin's Book. Not everyone who has read Origin of Species has decided that genocide is a great idea.

"I think that if scientist can spend millions a year on Evolution then surely there should be room for exploring Creationism. How can you prove one side if you fail to acknowledge the opposing arguement?"

Doesn't the Church have enough money to explore creationism on its own? If it was in any way scientific then i'm sure science would happily pay to investigate it but there is no experiment that can be done to prove it either way. There are only numerous fields of other sciences (geology, archaeology, paleontology, biology, astronomy to name but a few) that cast doubt upon creationism by proxy.

This is an open question to everyone on this thread, a little off topic, but still relevant i think. Does anyone know if other countries have this arguement? I mean do Hindu's argue with scientists in India about their creation myth, or taoists in China etc?

Originally posted by theindependentjournal


Deny Ignorance hey? Hitler did do what he did because of Darwin's Book on the Preservation of Favoured Races, also know as the Origin of Species...

This is a documented FACT and you show how little you know and how lazy you are to not look it up.

yes very documented lets see what he says in mien kampf and how he justifies it with evolution

The fox remains always a fox, the goose remains a goose, and the tiger will retain the character of a tiger. - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. ii, ch. xi

evolution ....no wait thats creationism..ignore this one ill find another

For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties. - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. ii, ch. x

evo..creationism again brb

Whoever would dare to raise a profane hand against that highest image of God among His creatures would sin against the bountiful Creator of this marvel and would collaborate in the expulsion from Paradise. - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol ii, ch. i

evo....dam not again

ok new plan lets try other stuff he said and wrote mein kampf doesnt seem to work

The most marvelous proof of the superiority of Man, which puts man ahead of the animals, is the fact that he understands that there must be a Creator. - Adolf Hitler, Hitler's Tabletalk (Tischgesprache im Fuhrerhauptquartier)

...well thats not evolution either thats crationism again ....

shall we explore the books the nazi's banned and burned?

Lists of Banned Books, 1932-1939
What was forbidden? What was burned? It is difficult to say for sure, in part because there were so many agencies which got involved. According to Leonidas Hill, author of "The Nazi Attack on Un-German Literature, 1933-1945," by 1934, over forty agencies had lists ennumerating 4,100 publications to be banned. The following list is necessarily partial, but should represent the most influential literature blacklists from 1933 to 1935.

so obviously if they were so drawn to evolution we obviously wouldnt find ANY OF THOSE on the list

Guidelines from Die Bücherei 2:6 (1935), p. 279

6. Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel).

www.library.arizona.edu...

....hhhhhmmmm so pro evolutionists demanding all evolution based material be burnt ..... odd

Blacklist for Public Libraries and Commercial Lending Libraries

Fighting League for German Culture:
Guidelines

c) All writings that ridicule, belittle or besmirch the Christian religion and its institution, faith in God, or other things that are holy to the healthy sentiments of the Volk.

maybe this explains it

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

... so doing it for god not darwin ...

Certainly we don't have to discuss these matters with the Jews, the most modern inventors of this cultural perfume. Their whole existence is an embodied protest against the aesthetics of the Lord's image.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

so jews are ungodly not undarwinist

Here, of course, we encounter the objection of the modern pacifist, as truly Jewish in its effrontery as it is stupid! 'Man's role is to overcome Nature!'

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

(Man's dominion over earth appears in Genesis 1:26)

evolution teaches we are part of nature not rulers of it

With satanic joy in his face, the black-haired Jewish youth lurks in wait for the unsuspecting girl whom he defiles with his blood, thus stealing her from her people.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

no satan in evolution ...


so umm just where is the conection? im struggaling to find it

even the ape comment doesnt fit evolution it says WE ARE ALL apes, not some of us but all

The largest Hitler Library in the World has his list of victims of course the Jews on the bottom were 10% Ape in Hitlers own writing. Hitlers book was gonna be dedicated to Darwin, and Engle's was...

funny becasue he never mentions Darwin by name

and evolution teaches we are all apes not just some of us

You should learn before speaking,

you really should

that's what we call Denying Ignorance.

try it some time it might be a refreshing chnage

And IF evolution were true

which it is

then Hitler would have been correct in taking out the lower races

so why did he do it for god with it bieng in his mind at least gods will?? and nothing to do with evolution

as Darwin's book was named so aptly...

species=races the term was interchangable in darwins times

he talked about the races of feline and fish and mammals

maybe read the book?

[edit on 12/12/08 by noobfun]

For me Expelled and Ebert's review brought up even more questions, each could be a thread or chapter of a book unto itself. For instance:

Can creationism and ID truly be separated, and if so how to teach ID without it opening the door for discussing creationism?

Isn't ID more of a philosophical or theological question versus a scientific one? Darwin was investigating the origins of species, not the origins of life, as Stein would have you believe.

If we were to find a way to discuss ID without it derailing science, wouldn't the answer lay somewhere out in the cosmos versus in a man made fairy tale? Carl Sagan has already done an excellent job of covering this terrain for us.

Originally posted by The All Seeing I

Can creationism and ID truly be separated, and if so how to teach ID without it opening the door for discussing creationism?

no it creates an infinity reduction

all roads lead to god, its just a poor effort to gain some support from people who believe we are genetically altered by aliens

we shall use those as our test

people were designed by aliens, who designed the aliens? super aliens, who designed those? super dooper aliens, who designed those super dooper dooper aliens so on and so on

we know the universe in its present state has a finite age so some where you have to stop adding super and dooper which leads us 1 of 2 options

either the first designers were acted upon by natural mechanisms to reach a stage they were able to design others (evolution)

or there was an ulitmate creator that was there before the universe existed and was the original designer of everything (god)

thats before we even go into its inability to present evidence of anything it teaches

Isn't ID more of a philosophical or theological question versus a scientific one?

yes

If we were to find a way to discuss ID without it derailing science, wouldn't the answer lay somewhere out in the cosmos versus in a man made fairy tale? Carl Sagan has already done an excellent job of covering this terrain for us.

if you found that you have left the Id realm, and Sagen(what a great guy ) still held evolution as the answer to natural diversity

reply to post by Good Wolf


You know, I just cannot take a guy seriously when every interview he sits down for, he is freakin' chewing on something!! It looks like he has a perpetual sunflower seed he is chewing on and it is very hard to watch and totally unprofessional for both being on tv to talk and taking part in any kind of interview. Those videos make me sad for people.