How great a leader is George W Bush ?

What are members opinions on the greatness of President Bush ?

To keep it short; despite the fact that doubters like to harp on his syntax, surely it is obvious that his actions speak of his greatness. No longer can enemies of the US and free world, rely on the indecisiveness of a complacent White House.

Feel fee to comment.



[Edited on 19-1-2003 by mad scientist]

He is not a great leader.

Steel tarrifs that upset any conception the world had that the USA was in favour of free trade.

Expelling ,before 9/11,Russian diplomats in a move that brought back the worst memories of the cold war.

China's Spyplane incident.Beligerently transgressing China's airspace and then cranking international tension up when he couldn't get his plane back.

Kyoto.When civilised countries agreed to improve the enviroment.

Cape Town.A missed chance to give millions of poor around the world fresh drinking water.

Tax breaks that enrich further the top 5% with 90% of the extra money.

Hypocracy when dealing with the Israel/Palestinian problem.

A disregard for the truth when trying to draw comparisons between Iraq and OBL.

His inability to deal with the accounting scandal that endangers the entire world economy because so many of his closest advisors are up to their neck in it themselves.

Has everyone forgotten exactly why it was that everyone around the world had such a high regard for Rudolf Guilianni.It was the exceptional way he purported himself when his President was running around like a headless chicken.

So is he a Great leader?He couldn't lead a piss-up in a brewery.He brings ridicule from around the world onto a great country.

he is not that great but he serounds himself with good leaders which balences it out so it is all good.

I'm not American...so don't have this guy as my President...but from what I can gather from our Media he appears only slightly more intelligent than Bubbles the Chimp...

...however, theres a small spark of hope within me that simply HAS to believe the American public WOULDN'T vote a complete moron into office...or we're all ferked...



Peace,
ALIEN

sorry but what actions speak of greatness? has he resolved anything with the power of his speeches shown great diplomtic skills and brought the world together? NO by some fairly stupid words (ie axis of evil) he has divided the world and alienated the others

come back to me and tell me his great when the worlds a much better place, far too soon call him anything other than a warificator.

Decisiveness does not make for greatness,

don`t get me wrong not anti american, don`t think of evil america, the guys just a joke, think Muppet when when ya think GW

(apologies for my comedifaction of your president)

[Edited on 19-1-2003 by cassini]

Yes Ghostman, Bush is surrounded by very smart people, who would influence all of his decisions.

I was posing my question in the context of the 'war on terror', not his domestic economic policy etc.

However I wouldn't call Bush stupid. Attacking his intelligence just because he has trouble articulating his thoughts sometimes, is really weak.
The fact that he isn't a rhodes scholar may actually allow him to have more clarity on these subjects.

...oooookay...so his being dumb (if indeed he is) WORKS in his favour and provides him clarity??? Interesting...

...reminds me of the Monty Python 'Parrot Sketch'...

"He's not dead...he's just sleeping"

even within the 'war on terror' I`m still struggling to see how his actions may merit the title of great. The american government may have started to act on this but there has not been any resolution to the situation and we are still in much the same position we were directly post 9/11, the action in afghanistan has only led to a wider and harder to pin down distribution of the terrorist network




[Edited on 19-1-2003 by cassini]

[Edited on 19-1-2003 by cassini]

Originally posted by mad scientist
What are members opinions on the greatness of President Bush ?

He reminds me of a frightened little boy thrust into a role he'd rather not fill, and certainly isn't prepared for.

I tend to hold little regard for politicians, and find precious few I admire. However, on a human level, he seems to be someone I wouldn't mind sharing a fine single malt highland scotch with.

He is the public face of a mildly sinister Republican machine. A machine over which he has only been granted control over a few buttons and levers, but only the ones that appear to do something, not the real controls.

But, these are my humble opinions, based on my observations only.

I think Bush is a good leader (or good at maintaining the *appearance* of leading while still being lead along himself)...But then considering that Hitler was a great leader too & seeing the constant errosion of the Constitution picking up in its *rate* of erosion under Bush's regime, I have serious misgivings about what he's *leading us into*!


[Edited on 19-1-2003 by MidnightDStroyer]

I find Winston comments intriguing.A kind of Wizard of Oz booming and pulling levers that set of fireworks.And all we really had to do was think of Kansas.

For me he is one of America's worst Presidents.Right down there with Nixon.He doesn't come close to F D Roosevelt or Reagan even his Father had Statesmanlike Gravitas.

Bless your heart, John, you see FDR as a good leader?

Interesting, all the greivances you listed against the Shrub are the things I like

1) Tarrifs are fine if levied against the U.S. (I'm speaking at Europe) but not by the U.S.

2) Why were the diplomats expelled?

3) That was not a spy plane, but a recon plane, and it wasn't in China's airspace. It was severly damaged when a Chinese hotdog struck it, also killing himself in the process. The plane and its crew was held captive by the chinese. And you side with the Chinese. I hope you are British and not American.

4) When countries agreed to impose restrictions on those who are already doing more while producing more. Hipocricy.

5) Where the liberal elites drank white wine and ate lobster literally yards from those in abject poverty. You should be ashamed at even mentioning that.

6) What? For not helping the middle east use "Palestinians" steal land that was never theirs? Palestine? What Rome called Israel in an attempt to erase the name from history? Hipocracy? I see it everywhere, but not where you are pointing.

7) Get real. In order to make that statement, you had to ignore many facts and a whole ton of evidence.

8) What, pray tell, is the president to do with the accounting scandal? Are you one of those big-government types that think the government is suppose to regulate everything? I see why you adore a FDR now. Gee, John, you swallow the liberal garbage without reading counter-info. You might find out that the inferences and accusations made by the left against people like Dick Cheney are baseless and aren't meant for close scrutiny. Most people who believe the garbage don't look closely at much, anyway, and the left-wing spin machine is aware of that.

9) John, I really can't believe you'd write something as stupid and ignorant as that. I have no desire to detract from Guilianni, but he was not responsible for the entire nation. Bush and Cheney both had jobs to do, as well as did the Secret Service. For you to sit in front of the computer and type such nonsense, well, I'm not believing it is you. I'll assume someone has hijacked your computer.

The last statement is baseless on its own lack of merit.
The rest of the world may have enjoyed the last politicician that was in the oval office. You remember the one, the guy that could be bought, the guy that "led" by checking polls every 30 minutes, the guy who brought crassness and immaturity to the White House, the moron that made a joke of the oval office and cigars, the idiot that is responsible for children learning about oral sex before they learned their ABC's to any profficient degree...this man we have in there now is heads above what was in there. This one is a leader, not a politician that follows polls, but a leader. While I may be getting ill with him quite often lately, he is still far better than what we've had since Mr. Reagan.

I belive that Bush is a good president especialy after Clinton. He is helping stop terror all over the world. Slowly but he is getting the job done. He is on the verge of riding the world of a psychotic dictator, and soon riding the world of a nuke crazy country.

while most people i know think george bush is a bad leader. i feel he is doing a great job. he says what he means and does what he says. he doesn't go by what the polls say he goes by what he believes. whether it's right or wrong it's what he believes. if you don't go by your convictions what good are you? and you never have to wonder what he's gonna do next, he's gonna come right out and tell you. that is honesty and all good leaders have that.

sure he isn't the greatest speaker, but i would rather have a man who speaks the language of the country than someone who has 40 writers inserting words you might hear twice in your life. another complaint many people have of him is his lack of knowlege about the rest of the world. well then he is no different than the rest of the country, how many of you can name the leaders of every country on this planet? not many i would guess. that is why you surround yourself with smart people, it's called delegation of authority. then you don't have to try and do it all yourself you just have to hear the proposals and decide if it's a good idea or not.

The Texas Hillbilly

(Sing along to the tune of Beverly Hillbillies)

Come and listen to my story 'bout a boy named Bush.
His IQ was zero and his head was up his tush.
He drank like a fish while he drove all about.
But that didn't matter 'cuz his daddy bailed him out.
DUI, that is.
Criminal record.
Cover-up.

Well, the first thing you know little Georgie goes to Yale.
He can't spell his name but they never let him fail.
He spends all his time hangin' out with student folk.
And that's when he learns how to snort a line of coke.
Blow, that is.
White gold.
Nose candy.

The next thing you know there's a war in Vietnam.
Kin folks say, "George, stay at home with Mom."
Let the common people get maimed and scarred.
We'll buy you a spot in the Texas Air Guard.
Cushy, that is.
Country clubs.
Nose candy.

Twenty years later George gets a little bored.
He trades in the booze, says that Jesus is his Lord.
He said, "Now the White House is the place I wanna be."
So he called his daddy's friends and they called the GOP.
Gun owners, that is.
Falwell.
Jesse Helms.

Come November 7, the election ran late.
Kin folks said "Jeb, give the boy your state!"
"Don't let those colored folks get into the polls."
So they put up barricades so they couldn't punch their holes.
Chads, that is.
Duval County.
Miami-Dade.

Before the votes were counted five Supremes stepped in.
Told all the voters "Hey, we want George to win."
"Stop counting votes!" was their solemn invocation.
And that's how George finally got his coronation.
Rigged, that is.
Illegitimate.
No moral authority.

Y'all come vote now.
Ya hear?

[Edited on 19-1-2003 by Netchicken]

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NC, you oughta publish that...
(Typed with tears streaming out of eyes)

I've spelled it out quite extensively on why he's an abomination to this thing we call the American Experiment. I'd say a good 85% of my posts are on this idiot alone.
On the aesthetic issue, I'm amazed that people still 'admire' his semi-retarded ramblings as 'down home'; forgetting that he's a Yale & Harvard graduate who has been a CEO several times over.........take an informal cross sample of anyone from any of the aforementioned categories and tell me they mangle the language as badly.
On the International issue, well, forget about our enemies.....look at the protests, just from this weekend alone, with our ALLIES!!!!
On the domestic issue, read my posts......it's been a labor of 'the-opposite-of-love' to chronicle the break neck speed at which the Bush Oligarchy has dismantled American prosperity and has proven to be the most immoral lying administration in our short history.....and that includes LBJ!!!

Overall, "The United States of America has gone mad" by John le Carr� sums it up pretty nicely.
A sample:"The imminent war was planned years before bin Laden struck, but it was he who made it possible. Without bin Laden, the Bush junta would still be trying to explain such tricky matters as how it came to be elected in the first place; Enron; its shameless favouring of the already-too-rich; its reckless disregard for the world's poor, the ecology and a raft of unilaterally abrogated international treaties. They might also have to be telling us why they support Israel in its continuing disregard for UN resolutions."


www.timesonline.co.uk...

Yes Alien, American's are smart enough not to vote in a Son of Satan.......but, they can be manipulated into thinking it's partisan politics to question the legal wranglings and complicit Supreme Court that installed him. And yes, you are screwed!!!!
We do go through periods of insanity, like we're in now, but McCarthyism passed eventually, no?

he's had the highest approval rating of any president, ever.

First, TC, with three. they were caught spying on us. And Bull, TC right with the airplane. The international line is twelve miles, the airplane was at about 25, they were in the right, not the chinese. Numbe five, yes, the rich drink fine wine and such while peasants starve. But hey, it's America's fault, we stick our nose in the business of others so much people expect us to do something. With six, where was Palestan? When Egypt and Jordan owned those lands never heard of Palenstiniens(sp?)

NC, that is the greatest song I have ever heard. But don't forget, this Yale Grad can't even say sublim, sublimimini, subliminimainiamianiniamimnaimimnl.(subliminal) First part reminds me of GWB and his kids/nieces. They do blow, drink, so forth, never get in trouble. All of a sudden, they fall of the planet. Cover up you hear? They do all kinds of sh*t, illegal sh*t, then just go "poof" from the media. Ask me all in Betty Ford for doing to much blow, white gold, nose candy.

First, TC, with three. they were caught spying on us. And Bull, TC right with the airplane. The international line is twelve miles, the airplane was at about 25, they were in the right, not the chinese. Numbe five, yes, the rich drink fine wine and such while peasants starve. But hey, it's America's fault, we stick our nose in the business of others so much people expect us to do something. With six, where was Palestan? When Egypt and Jordan owned those lands never heard of Palenstiniens(sp?)

NC, that is the greatest song I have ever heard. But don't forget, this Yale Grad can't even say sublim, sublimimini, subliminimainiamianiniamimnaimimnl.(subliminal) First part reminds me of GWB and his kids/nieces. They do blow, drink, so forth, never get in trouble. All of a sudden, they fall of the planet. Cover up you hear? They do all kinds of sh*t, illegal sh*t, then just go "poof" from the media. Ask me all in Betty Ford for doing to much blow, white gold, nose candy.