Barter Items

say SHTF, what do you have currently that you could use to barter with! having a quick scope around I've come up with a pretty poor list! yea I've got about 80quid in my wallet at the moment but that will be useless! except maybe for the few that think the system will be restored as it was before!

1. a spare sykes fairburn dagger
   
2. a bag of long burning tea lights
   
3. at a push 3 large cans of soup
   
4. a 12 pack of AA batteries (nothing I have uses them except 360 controller)
   
5. various packets of herbs and spices
   
6. few books (survival and recreational)
   
7. spare 60L rucksack
   

so not a very good list at all! Obviously in a crunch I could trade some kit, but would you really want to give up your nice solar charger or medical supplies?

of course there is the chance that in time some rudimentary currency would start to appear again. But in the initial weeks and months it'd be pure bartering!

Pure bartering is the best idea. If a currency is reinstated is should be for services and not goods. Goods should be traded in a market, if a producer wants to pay with real and actual goods of life sustaining value then that should be bartered out by the service provider and the goods producer.

If people come together, draw up a social contract (others will likely come along) or edict of government which can not be diluted, and agree on a system of instating or withdrawing leaders then that would be better than what we have.

People unable to perform who are fit should be compelled to work at the fringe of the group or expelled - just that simple. Kids would have to work along side their parents in light educational duties. ALL citizens should be trained in the defense of the group. Any "invalids" or disabled people should be cared for to the best of the ability of people of the community. Reprobates should be expelled and a group system to keep watch at all times and in all directions with a few "spare" folks serving as back ups in case a watcher faints or falls asleep...

Uhm, I have enough stuff to not need to trade? Hence I would be a service provider for people who need help in exchange for foods and a watering hole - an equal member of "producer/provider" relationship... But, that only works in a perfect world so who am I kidding?

If I were to trade it certainly wouldn't be for or with accessory items like spices and batteries. I think people have had quite enough warning to get on the internet and get themselves into a state of "what if" again.

Oh, medical supplies...ya, uhm...get lots of cotton wool and compress it into a duffel or some other bag that you can attach to your gear - not so much as to impede movement but maybe enough to be a pillow and to hand out to people who need it.

A fun entertainment book to read is by John Ringo called "There Will Be Dragons" - it's really lame on the fantasy aspect but I realized I had forgotten to consider some problems other people might have and need help with.

Uhm, you can't trade with a hungry, psychotic dominate personality person who is hell bent on assailing you for your goods...or a group of them for that matter. And the whinging lay about pacific folks will try to whine you into doing what they want Kinda like now except they will be even more unstable if SHTF.

(a note on SHTF : I say it's a steady stream of S being pumped at the F and that the thing that will change is a clog and resulting EXPLOSION of S all over the place when the S pump blasts apart in a massive expulsion of the uber S tank...but, that's just what I say :dn

lol yea my home town is full of the types who expect to be given things rather than earn them. Drives me nuts! But I find a nice big German shepard keeps most from bothering me when I'm out and about

anyway! yea you may have plenty of gear now, but things don't last forever! its inevitable that you will need replacements. Or just want new things!

Cigarettes.

Coffee.

Make your own wine....wine.

Stuff you do not need but stuff that some people want.

For example I do not smoke but I know that those who do would give a lot for one ciggarette.

What would be a good rate of exchange for barter items?

What willl a carton of 200cigs/5x50g of rolling tobacco be worth?

How much would 1Kw/h of off-grid AC power be worth?

A litre of spirits?

A quiver of arrows/bolts?

50g of crop seeds?

A blister-strip of high-strength painkillers/antibiotics?

I think some form of standardised 'ATS guild' trade-rates should be drawn up so we can get an idea of what to expect



[edit on 4-11-2008 by citizen smith]

I'm thinking it would be a needs basis. More of negations than bartering really as if you really need something its value is exponentially related to your need.

@cs good thinking, I think it could of course be of importance to any msa's to determine prior to an event the value of items in relation to others. With say a base denomination of 1l of water. so the values of items can easily be compared without bias.

Ever played Fallout?
The future will be bottlecaps & pull-pins of soda cans.

I don't smoke however, I could see myself stocking up on Marlboros or Camels. Good as gold in trying times. All of those stressed out hooligans are bound to need a puff to stave off their hunger pangs.

reply to post by -0mega-


those games are awesome! my favourite games of all time, and come payday fallout3 will be bought for the ps3. I cant wait!!!!!

reply to post by IntoTheVortex


As another poster said, I favor "sin" items for barter. Booze, tobacco, etc... Ive even thought about getting some skin mags, hey, there will be some lonely guys out there. Toilet paper comes to mind, but there isnt a chance I would give that up.

An exchange rate? Thats going to fall into individual needs. I wont be the one looking to barter, I am well stocked on everything I can think of. I would only trade for things that would make my life easier/better. For instance someone who can brain tan hides would be a good trade partner with me. Yes, I can do it, but it takes alot of time that I could be doing something else. One would imagine that general labor is going to be what most people have to offer. If you planned ahead, you probably arent going to be looking to barter, rather protect what you have.

For bartering trade-skills and time-banking there are quite a few schemes running, one such definition by wikipedia is L.E.T.S. (Local Exchange Trading Scheme) or see the LETS link UK website for how it works in the community

Widespread specialisation of trades have been eroded since the industrial revolution and division of labour...each person only undertaking a part-task to create the whole.

Learniing leatherworking, mechanics & smithing, electrics, brewing, etc as a hobby would be most advantagous as that would enable an individual to be able to join any post-x community and trade their particular skill and command a good return in survival basic resources

Originally posted by jibeho
Learniing leatherworking, mechanics & smithing, electrics, brewing, etc as a hobby

is pimping a hobby?

[edit on 4-11-2008 by IntoTheVortex]

[edit on 4-11-2008 by IntoTheVortex]

Oh yes that's for sure! That's why to learn how to make stone age tools well enough to be serviceable... or like, tree age? There's lotsa stuff to learn if you want to.

I was a "survivalist" at age...6 or 7 maybe, so it's like "in" my DNA or something? Whole family is like that is why I say that. Beyond getting the basics covered for immediate and near term possible crisis situation, there should be great consideration for the future of yourself and/or family/eventual family.

Consider if you "need" medicine for something, or your family, or even the people across town. Not funny. "What will they do?" Well, what CAN they do is the PROBLEM. Uhm, the Amish folks in Kansas know a thing or two about survival, and I don;t think many of them use allot of English medicine (that's what they say about technology - most all are German, see...)


And the worst thing about learning how to survive is if we are in that situation in some parts of the world we probably won't have a weather station that has a working radar and the satellites won't do any good if the receiver stations are down...so no warning other than "old school" weather guessing.

Save up some dirt and paper. If he ever had a massive flood and the whole world was water, they would be as good as gold!!!!

Oh I am ill-prepared here.... [In all faireness, I am a University Student living in Residence...my parents house is where the stock is].

As for Non-Perishables...
- 3 boxes of Vegan Protein Bars (Larabars, thinkOrganic, and Herbalife Canada Bars) about 30ish bars ranging from 5g protein to 20g.
- 6 bottles of Wine (Red, Merlot and Cab Sav).
- 2 Jars of Multivitamins (the one a day kind)
- 2 Jars of Calicium Supplements
- 1 jar of Iron Supplement
- 2 Jars of Eccinecea
- Protein Powder to add to Fruit Smoothies and such (however no blender so, this will prove to be tasteless (but useful) when only mixed with Water)
- About 4 Cups of Trail Mix (with chocolate, nuts, Oats, Flax Seed)
- About 4 cups of granola
- Oh and 2 boxes of Vegetable Broth Soup Base
- Basic First Aid kit with Gauze, Bandaids, Antibacterial Wipes, Safty Pins, Q Tips, Polysporin, and Iodine...
- Leatherman/Gerber style knife.

Hmm...I'm not too bad off I guess, For the VERY Short term... but I'd be leaving the City if the SHTF....or at least trying to leave to get home...

I would definitely stock up on Alcohol, or learn to make your own.
Wine, Whisky, Scotch, Vodka etc...
Cigarettes, Cigarettes and more Cigarettes.
Tylenol, Ibuprophen, and educate yourself on Natural Healing Plants etc.
Books. Books. Books. - I would stock up on as many kinds of books as possible...

Just somet houghts.

- Carrot


[edit on 11/4/2008 by CA_Orot]

I think the trading skills part of it will play more of a role after the dust (or radio active fallout???) has settled so to speak. When people start realising that they dont know how to build a cabin or rig up a simple jenny etc.

I think one of the main ones will be in creating bio fuels and mechanical engineering to create new / repair / convert jenny's .

creating modern day med's would be neigh on impossible without a lab and training and power. So back to herbal remedies which I don't think is a bad idea. Combined with a healthy life. I'm a firm believer there is everything on this planet to look after us, including cures for all our ailments its just a question of finding it and being strong enough to repair the damage caused.

Not forgetting there are almost defiantly people who think they have a right just to take things regardless, or just like to kill / hurt people. The world has plenty of these today so it's only going to get worse when people know there is no law! so trained security would be very high on the list of important skills especially for large towns / trading hubs. Don't forget the jails would empty in a sitX situation so all those deemed fit for punishment in a civilised society would be free to do as they pleased.


the list could be endless!!

but as CS posted earlier it would be good to get something in place and agreed upon prior to it happening. Least this way we're giving ourselves a head start!

Canoes are good for America. I got bayous here where I might have to go for water (pop in some water purifying pills, strain it through a coffee maker filter or twelve, the run it through an ultra awesome filter) and I know how to live on one if I have too...uhm, Hawaiians and US natives still row massive miles for competition and tradition, can't be too hard to it ourselves.

Ya thieves... make friends with people? Most folks can't go pull a Bear Grylls endeavor so ya gotta team up to live. Find an ex-military person that has been trained (or a civilian) with "isolation" survival experience.

Get some military hand books and the SAS survival guide thing, there's tons of info and it's nice to have the books with you as a check list. The US Ranger handbook is awesome!

I am sorry, by the way, that Holland might suffer for the iniquities of the US. My great mother is Dutch

reply to post by CA_Orot


lol alot more prepared than I am for bartering. All I could rely on is training to errrm "ask politely" for what I needed. hehe End of the day if its my life, or of someone I care about / mates compared to some stranger then I know who is going to be walking away!

I guess it could be useful chumming up with some gangsta types in the uk. so at least you'd have some fire power when SHTF!

on a quick side note, does anybody know a good air riffle to buy for hunting purposes ? I've been looking around I already have a compound bow but that's not feasible for hunting game and small mammels. and there's very few dear around my parts!

Originally posted by IntoTheVortex
the jails would empty in a sitX situation so all those deemed fit for punishment in a civilised society would be free to do as they pleased.

I think it would be the other way around...one of the first acts by the remnants of a community would be the imposition of law and order to prevent further chaos, and more harshly than prior to the sit-x

Severe penalties and public punishments much as in medieval times would be likely to make a return to ensure social security and deter violent crime and theft of valuable resources

I believe the ideas of regular punishment and order will go out the window.

Mostly, It will be people keeping each other accountable for fear of bodily harm. It really comes down to the social demographic of any given community. A has-been authority figure would have a difficult time enforcing laws that are moot and pointless in the face of disaster, unless soldiers were brought in to keep order. I doubt there are enough soldiers to police every last little town in America.


getting back to bartering...

I would be making heaters and cookers to burn any substance imaginable under the sun.
Just our junkyards provide enough malleable steel to turn into some pretty nice wood stoves.

There will be the desperate need for gasoline-free transportation...