ATF says plot to kill Obama, 102 people disrupted!

*edit:

Kosmic clarified his position. Plus, the post was pretty far off topic anyway.

[edit on 27-10-2008 by Sublime620]

Ummm...no. I'm just saying that this is likely a case of extreme buffoonery OR more than meets the eye. Skinheads are stupid.

Additionally, I think it's more likely that, based on this scenario, some undecided voters may vote against Obama rather than for him, just to avoid what they perceive as inevitable if he's elected.

I have personally heard supposedly intelligent people use this as an excuse to justify a vote against Obama.


[edit on 27/10/2008 by kosmicjack]

Im somehow thinking this will be similar to the poor guy who happened to have a rifle in the same city as the convention . The media blew it out of all proportion . All smoke and no fire.

The idea that criminals would exploit the weapon free zones, schools, churches, and other locations which post and enforce a "No Weapons Allowed on This Property" restriction, is very logical. Criminals do not want to get hurt by someone having a concealed carry weapon or firearm in the trunk or glovebox of their vehicle. They are going to target schools most often with their mass murder plans, as in the school they will be more certain to be confronting an unarmed population.
This is several accidents waiting to happen by the infringement on the second amendment to restrict and prohibit persons fron bearing arms.
Though it is disgusting that criminals would exploit this unnecessary weakness, it is natural for a criminal to think that way as they want an "easy" victim.
Good that the BATFE thwarted the attempt. I only hope they will be as lucky in future events like this.

Originally posted by kosmicjack
Ummm...no. I'm just saying that this is likely a case of extreme buffoonery OR more than meets the eye. Skinheads are stupid.

These guys were 18 and 20, still kids in many respects. They become skinheads for much the same reasons people their age join street gangs. In a sense they are lost and the message of such groups makes sense on their impressionable minds. Often intelligence has little to do with it.

Problem, Reaction , Solution can be generalized to the point of non-function.

But in this case it works pretty well.

-Problem from the perspective of the gov't. (We need more control over the people.)

-Staged problem to cause a reaction. (Skinheads plot to kill Obama and a bunch of black school kids.)
In normal society this would not be a headline, because this type of scenario incites terror, therefor to cause terror you broadcast it in ever major paper, cable news outlet, and other, causing the desired effect......TERROR.

-Solution hmmm I don't know, how about some of those lovely liberty destroying hate crime laws to be rammed through because of the public outrage caused by their dastardly promotion and broadcast of a non-event!!

sorry dudes, but this gun is no joke. kill shot at 150-200 yards with minimal training. that rifle used $3500 used: www.gunsamerica.com...#

The more I read about these two idiots the more I suspect a media or government ploy like the one stated above. I'm sure they're skin heads, I'm sure they talked a lot of crap. I'm just not sure if it is a ploy or not to try and influence the election.

Yeah that crossed my mind, or something like it did. I just don't see how Obama was threatened. Did these guys really have a plan? I thought they got busted in the beginning stages. Is it gonna turn out that they were just texting a little neo nazi banter back and forth and whoops.....forgot big brother was watching? Are they even gonna have anything on these guys? Most of the terror plots that have been busted in this country turnout to be nothing.

On a side note. I would just like to say that in case of a neo nazi skinhead backlash on this site; just remember that there are also traditional skins that are all about unity, and loud music who may actually be cool people. Let's not start confusing the 2 and trashing any old skinheads.

reply to post by ppskylight


I think they're seeding the idea that he will be assassinated so when it happens, we're not going to be surprised. Just like the Joker said, "it all goes according to plan..."

It's an obvious trick, they did it a while ago, and there have been News reports on it all the time and people say it all the time. That shouldn't be a common thought by Americans that if he gets elected he will probably be assassinated. That's just evidence that they've got that in your brain now.

reply to post by downtown436


Well, then you could apply your logic and speculation to the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

Again, so what? Even when David Icke uses it I say, "So what, David?"

I fail to see the merit of the Problem>Reaction>Solution equation. It's useful for discussion of past events, yes. However, a discussion won't suffer clarity if it's not used.

And again, we have plenty of history to draw upon where patterns of similar events have been analyzed, and could be analyzed that one could speculate that as long as certain systems exist, similar events will likely happen in the future.

I'll concede that Problem>Reaction>Solution is a catchy phrase, is easy to learn, and that once understood it provides one with a coarse perspective of past events. It's useful for coming to quick conclusions, or providing quick explanations.

But the thing that bothers me most about it, is that when it is applied to past events, it imposes a rough symmetry on the event. That is, it forces upon the event a beginning, a middle, and an end. And so the historian ends up with a Hollywood understanding of a past real life event. (Which has already been compromised because someone had to record it.) And maybe that's all one needs from time to time, but isolating a historical event diminishes the comprehension of the event and its place in history, instead of increasing it. Why? Because no real life event is truly isolated; unlike a film.

Anyway, it is useful, but I find when it's used, I say, "So what?". I say that because what I want is more information that allows the past event to breathe with relevance. Maybe instead of saying, "So what?" I should ask, "What happened before?" and "What happened next?". Those questions are useful in Hollywood. They seem to be a natural fit for Problem>Reaction>Solution.





[edit on 28-10-2008 by Areal51]

reply to post by mrwupy


Hot dangit, I can't edit any of my posts this morning

Thanks to you and Anonymous for pointing out the number symbolism. Google filled me in quite nicely, and now the plot makes even less sense
(I get it....really.....just mass murders/ planning makes me sad)

You will be lucky if Obama makes it past the 1 year point if he becomes president. A lot of racial groups will not like being run by a black president. Some of those people are very influential. There is no need to get their hands dirty, they can just use one of their soldiers to do it for them.

Personally, I hate for you guys to have to choose between the lesser of two evils. But there are ways to go about dealing with these types of issues other then killing and assassination.

These guys in my opinion are no different then your current administration and their goons. The lesson they are teaching is if the opposition does not co-operate then take them out. They did that with Saddam, the Shah of Iran, etc.

If Obama is elected I hope nothing happens to him, but hopes are not as real as actions.

reply to post by liquidsmoke206

Originally posted by liquidsmoke206
I would just like to say that in case of a neo nazi skinhead backlash on this site; just remember that there are also traditional skins that are all about unity, and loud music who may actually be cool people. Let's not start confusing the 2 and trashing any old skinheads.

Good point! Not all skinheads are neo-Nazi's.

Back in '87 I used to go to a nightclub where the clientele was mostly skinheads, goths, and Black people. And so if you didn't get Nitzer Ebb or Xymox or Front 242 or Fishbone or 24-7 Spyz, you probably didn't get the crowd either.

So, not all skinheads thrive on ignorance.



[edit on 28-10-2008 by Areal51]

Originally posted by bluemooone2
Im somehow thinking this will be similar to the poor guy who happened to have a rifle in the same city as the convention . The media blew it out of all proportion . All smoke and no fire.

Based on what's come out, these to morons couldn't assasinate an elephant in a closed room with a bazooka. All stupid skinhead "macho" BS......but the media who is in love with obamassiah will do anything..........

To make it clear. 88 does indeed stand for Heil Hitler, H being the eighth letter of the alphabet. The number 14 stands for the "Fourteen words", created by David Lane. "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children." You will often see the numbers together, 88/14, 14/88, and so on.

It was two white surpremists one 18 and the other 20... their plan was to go on a robbing and killing spree before attacking Obama, but they couldn't even manage to pull their first robbery off without blowing it.

Which is good.

just thought of something interesting..
they probably caught these idiots by using anti-terror laws recently passed to prevent home-grown terrorists...


...

Seems to me the media purposely pits black people against whites.

reply to post by Z.S.P.V.G.


Well if this is one of the guys he is going to make friends real quick in prison.

Sorry but I would be more fearful if he actually looked like he was something other than a scared child hiding behind his real power.


You have to wonder though if the plan was so well thought out why did not they even get started? I agree with some other posters that this seems to be a well timed story from people we most already do not trust. To me it seems they might have had the guns (sure a lot of people including nut case neo Nazis have guns) but that really they were more talk and said it to the wrong people. Now they are going to get screwed in many, many ways. I hear that in prison they like to knock the teeth out of the pretty ones right away.

On the other hand now they will at least get a chance to live with other races on a day to day basis.

Raist

reply to post by stikkinikki


the 14 is a reference to a 14 word summery of David Lanes view

"we must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children"
David lane was a white supremacist who died last year in prison.