The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
reply to post by GreenBicMan

 

So it was all retail players who took the market down that day? The market is now so crowded with short term sentiment that all anyone has to do is fart and it sets off a chain reaction. The truth is the players that did leave the game that day did so because their concern is not to give the markets liquidity but to skim easy money off the top of most trades. Flash traders and trading syndicates are a cancer on the markets and need to be eradicated. Since the SEC won't do it then Congress needs to do it through taxation or a 1/2% surcharge on every trade.

I don't understand what you are saying?

I am saying the HFT shut down totally, there are 3 major ones. The biggest being TradeWorx (or something). I posted what happened that day in this thread.

Day traders had nothing to do with what happened.

Flash traders are no such thing. That is make believe. There is volume being *pinged* (small orders such as 1 share), but that is to pick off dark liquidity orders of very big size to try to frontrun them. Those are people trading our type of size to try to front run big institutional orders. Have you ever heard of Pipeline PowerPlay? That is an example of a darkpool people are trying to frontrun.

If you think taxation is going to do anything good, think again. Any tax is going to lessen liquidity then making the cost of doing trades much more which lowers liquidity in markets. We need to make sure liquidity stays high ->gets higher.



[edit on 10-6-2010 by GreenBicMan]

I think I have already posted this before, but here it is again.

This is from TradeWorx, one of the biggest liquidity providers (HFT).

They shut down about 5 minutes before we dropped 600+ points in 5 minutes. This is a .pdf of what they do and how they function in the marketplace.

If you take the time to literally go over all these pages and take the time to understand it most likely you will agree that we need these people. The interesting part is though that their strategies change all the time.

So, the most interesting part IMO, is that there is basically groups of PhD's battling each other everyday - all day long - trying to outsmart each other for virtually pennies on the dollar *CHANGING STRAT'S ALL THE TIME*.

This means to me that short term strategies in the marketplace from here on out are totally invalid because what you are seeing is basically *residue* from multiple strategies that are adapting to and designed to never be the same again. It is pretty interesting.
TradeWorx PDF


[edit on 10-6-2010 by GreenBicMan]

So, the most interesting part IMO, is that there is basically groups of PhD's battling each other everyday - all day long - trying to outsmart each other for virtually pennies on the dollar *CHANGING STRAT'S ALL THE TIME*.

This is why we have the market in the first place?
Don't we have sports for this very purpose, where people constantly try to outsmart and outperform each other, so we can drink our beer and cheer?

Imposing such behavior on economy is sick and the result is serious sickness.

40 million people on food stamps. Think about the causes. I suppose, those are the outsmarted ones? They should be put to sleep...

saw a women on cbnc the other day she said watch the open and then watch the close a trend has developed they cut her off and didnt run her story ever again instead they ran bernankes views 49 times over talked about all the good things obama keeps doing for us taxing cutting health benefits for the elderly they probably won't be needing them anyway been watching cnbc for about a decade and a half this time of year they always run stories about sell in may and go away been going on for the last 35 yrs or better but they wont run this story but i does kind of look like cramer is starting to put his pom poms down and it might be awhile before we get back to the 200 day moving average on the s&p like the entire rest of the summer maybe

Originally posted by DangerDeath

So, the most interesting part IMO, is that there is basically groups of PhD's battling each other everyday - all day long - trying to outsmart each other for virtually pennies on the dollar *CHANGING STRAT'S ALL THE TIME*.

This is why we have the market in the first place?
Don't we have sports for this very purpose, where people constantly try to outsmart and outperform each other, so we can drink our beer and cheer?

Imposing such behavior on economy is sick and the result is serious sickness.

40 million people on food stamps. Think about the causes. I suppose, those are the outsmarted ones? They should be put to sleep...

Throughout the markets history people have always found ways to outsmart others.

Most of this has been going on for almost 20 years now. It is just lately the public is learning about a lot of it.

I am not sure what you mean though. It is no ones fault some people are poor/foodstamps/whatever. I don't see how this has any correlation.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Well, you know, you don't know The point is - what is the point in making everyone your opponent and at the same time claim that you are trying to survive? Like there is no better way to ensure survival but fighting to life or death. That is exactly the worst way to ensure survival.

Something is very wrong, but this "philosophy" is so irresistible that people just get carried along with it. Those are the stupid ones, the "suckers", the "losers".

The collapse of society is every now and then, people perish, and it is programmed by the "players" who are not exactly the "gamblers" - which is the only way for them to survive. They have organized society in such a manner that they stay untouchable, I suppose you have noticed that. Now, that is the epitome of this behavior of "outsmarting" everyone. Do you really think, apart from simply noticing how things really are - that it is OK and that one should do nothing to avoid it or prevent it?

Those players can cheat and steal and murder - but the whole system is there to create the fog of war and keep them safe. People who comply to this kind of game are their best shield.

I think all should be aware that complying to such a system makes them accomplices in this perpetual crime. It is no joke. Look at the "progress" of which "capitalism" is so proud, look at the outcome. It is a pending disaster, because times of romantic consumerism are over. Even if I wanted to be an optimist I couldn't imagine things are going to improve. They are not.

So, pay up is now. It is a very bitter experience for many. The problem is, even when things get contrasted like now, people refuse to stop and reconsider their philosophy of survival. Lemmings. Who can blame them? Suckers.

It is really a shame to get so deeply absorbed into such "logic".

An example. IBM is one of the most successful firms. But, it has very dirty past, since it helped Hitler track German population and herd Jews and others he considered to be "enemies" and eliminate them in the way everyone knows about. All blame is on Hitler and Nazis - they are historical criminals. But IBM was "just business". It was excluded from the trial and judgment. All is very "simple". Simply a matter of etiquette. Labeling.

This is how they get away and keep destroying - in the case of market, "suckers-investors", who stand no chance against such highly organized criminals and their exclusive technological means to manipulate and destroy.

There is an ongoing catastrophe in the Gulf of Mexico, the "oil volcano". The whole goddamn economy is going to suffer because of it, it will reflect on the market. In the long run, (not really so long) whole south-east of the USA is going to suffer immensely. But the system will not protect the people, the small fish. It will protect BP and Halliburton, make them profit and ensure their survival. People from BP will move into some other corporation, they will survive, but millions will be on the verge of survival. You can say - life is a bitch. Yeah. That is easy to say.

Corporations are the environment to ensure survival of criminals. They move from one corporation to another, even if particular corporations go down. They position their members to high office in the state, to ensure their environment doesn't decay, while everywhere else we see destruction. They have managed to make every aspect of society work in their favor. That is the reason humanity developed in such way - the society - a means of survival for criminal mind.

I can understand someone is willing to learn how things function in the grand picture, but if one can do that, one can also see the consequences, the outcome. And it is only about one sole thing - does one comply or not. A matter of decision, not of the logic, which is in truth an alien entity. A matter of courage in the face of this enemy.

mapper.nndb.com...

www.nndb.com...

Peter Sutherland

This guy is EVERYWHERE:

Goldman Sachs Managing Director, Goldman Sachs Int'l. (1995-)
World Trade Organization Director-General (1995)
GATT Director-General (1993-95)
EU Commissioner (1984-89)
Irish Official Attorney General (1981-84)
Member of the Board of Allied Irish Banks (as Chairman, 1989-93)
Member of the Board of British Petroleum (as Chairman, 1997-)
Member of the Board of Delta Airlines (1995-)
Member of the Board of Investor AB
UN Envoy Special Representative on Migration (2006)
Bilderberg Group Steering committee
Council on Foreign Relations
European Institute Board of Directors
Pilgrims Society
Trilateral Commission European Chairman
World Economic Forum Foundation Board
Knight of the British Empire 2004
French Legion of Honor 1993
Irish Ancestry

If BP goes down, and it is very much possible, it will be simply assimilated by other corporations/institutions where this guy and the likes of him exist, perfectly safe and beyond any existing civil law.

And at present moment, BP, that is THEM, control the water, land and skies of south/east USA. And they are destroying it all as we sit and (try to) watch.

Corporation(s) - there is no singular/plural for such an entity. it is one Hydra with hundred heads.


Also here:

www.zerohedge.com...

The readers' comments are also interesting.



[edit on 10-6-2010 by DangerDeath]

reply to post by DangerDeath


Off the scale, DD.

It's certainly good to consider the bigger picture from time to time.


Here's a really thorough current appraisal of BP's predicament:

Oil spill: BP shares slide as crisis continues

Key fact:

...The oil giant's shares were 6% lower by lunchtime after earlier plunging 12%...

BP: 365.50p -26.05 (-6.65%)

I am noticing today of trend of media posting fake positive news headlines, claiming that there is an global recovery and including by CNN

money.cnn.com...

i find these been posted by the media highly unbelievable and whats more, each article is posted or printed on the net after each other,

If you ask me this nothing more then just crap news, i dont watch the news anymore because is so fake.

Oh and heres something interesting for you if your interested in the G20/G8 meeting that is coming here in toronto


www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

A fake lake for the reporters is been promoted and is already been made
you got ask, why a fake lake for just reporters?



[edit on 10-6-2010 by Agent_USA_Supporter]

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


It seems that's the only way these days they keep enough panic out of the market to keep it afloat. "More people applied for unemployment this month even though the economy is improving.." I seriously heard that today on the news in not so many words.

reply to post by PayMeh


Don't forget the one million that just stop looking for jobs,

Raise Social Security Retirement Age: Budget Expert


www.cnbc.com...

Working Draft of Financial Reform Bill Is Released

www.cnbc.com...

The Richest Members of the US Congress

www.cnbc.com...

www.reuters.com...

It is unlikely the U.S. economy will take a turn for the worse and slip back into recession, top economists and investment strategists said this week.

oh wow thats great, nothing to worry about here folks...

www.nydailynews.com...

Gov. Paterson went into full doomsday mode Thursday, warning of chaos and anarchy in the streets if the government shuts down.

"It would create unimaginable chaos around the state and the greater metropolitan area," Paterson said on WCBS Radio 880 this morning.

Paterson warned that the state would run out of money to pay its workforce - including troopers and correction officers - and eventually would not even be able to put gas in state vehicles.

Even stop-gap measures, such as the state Controller issuing IOUs, would work for only so long.

"Eventually the banks aren't going to pay based on IOUs, and you now have no money to pay your police, you have no money to pay your correction officers, your firefighters, your emergency health care workers," Paterson said.

On WBEN in Buffalo, Paterson went so far as to warn of runs on banks and financial institutions that have not been seen since the Great Depression.

"You could have anarchy, literally, in the streets when the government shuts down," Paterson said.

ummm sh*t......... somebody's lying..

Markets soared today, it looks like its all going to bounce back. They are all saying the chances of a double dip recession is pretty slim, are we finally climbing out of the hole, or is there going to be another landslide?

Originally posted by xxshadowfaxx
Markets soared today, it looks like its all going to bounce back. They are all saying the chances of a double dip recession is pretty slim, are we finally climbing out of the hole, or is there going to be another landslide?

The same thing happend last week, they always bounce back, cause its a
rigged system, Dont be fooled by the claims.


We Are Still in a recession.

Since the states are bankrupt, what do you think? Inflation? How are they going to pay their servants?

reply to post by xxshadowfaxx


Every time that they bounce back is "government involvement and money infused in the name of many things".

Still since the last two years the markets can not survive without government intervention.

Originally posted by xxshadowfaxx
Markets soared today, it looks like its all going to bounce back. They are all saying the chances of a double dip recession is pretty slim, are we finally climbing out of the hole, or is there going to be another landslide?

Looks to be time to get out the lawn tractor and start mowing down some green shoots.

Originally posted by xxshadowfaxx
Markets soared today, it looks like its all going to bounce back. They are all saying the chances of a double dip recession is pretty slim, are we finally climbing out of the hole, or is there going to be another landslide?

You will always get bounces, if you look at the chart these past few weeks there has been big bounces which can last for a few days and then it drops down even further. One of my sources thinks there could be a head and shoulders pattern forming and we have just formed the left shoulder and the head, and this guy knows his stuff. Another source who has proved very reliable thinks the Dow is on its last legs.

reply to post by SpaceMonkeys


You can also track the "bounce" to a bailout of some kind or a promise by the Government of new legislation that will benefit Wal street.

The last two bailout was after the 1000 dip of 1 trillion dollar to the Euro by US, Canada, UK and Germany.

The one after that, that bounce the US markets back was a bailout to the states and union workers.

I am trying to figure out what is causing this newest bounce, the only thing I found out is that the IMF as of Friday last week had 4 trillion dollars invested on propping the nations in trouble.

Behind every bounce is transfer of money by governemnts and banks.




[edit on 11-6-2010 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043

Yup
Also I'm sure I heard someone say yesterday something about new "circuit breakers" being put into place either yesterday or today, that might have eased market worries a bit.

[edit on 11-6-2010 by SpaceMonkeys]