BTS.music: A Case of Rejection

PODcast:

A Case of Rejection

So I spot this ad in a local paper for a drummer to play on some fusion tracks. So I'm like cool. I call the guy up, end up going over to his place with a portable recorder and record a few tunes straight off his keyboard. Just piano mostly, but this one had a bit of keyboard bass in it too. So after messing with it for a while, I sent him back the included mp3. Just added me playing on a drumset with some wind chimes. Recorded it live just listening to his piano track, and having to learn the suttle timing shifts in his playing and the random stops and punches. He had recorded with no click straight into his sequencer in freewheel mode. No easy task on this tune. So he calls me back a few days later and says essentially it was not what he was looking for. Ok, no biggie. But played it for some musician friends, and they said I did pretty good considering, and that he ought to reconsider. Just curious what your guys opinion might be.






length: 03:15
file: btsmpod_3086.mp3
size: 3053k
feed: btsm
status: live (at time of posting)

feels a bit like jazz/lounge.

sounds nice so keep it up

Hey Grey Magic,

Thanks for your compliments and flag (if that was you). So what do you think about what I put in the description? (There's a story to this song, see OP) Should he reconsider? Was hoping someone familiar with fusion (Jazz/Rock, mostly instrumental) would comment as well. But glad you liked it!

Yeah the flag was from me.

Nice work to start with, always room for improvement but the basis is there.

Just keep developing yourself.

Might go into music next year too.

I am planning on buying an electric guitar next year, always wanted to learn to play that and I think its getting time to make that dream come true

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I did post production audio for a full length motion picture awhile back and the producer/director/co-star explained how the location boom mic operator was always pointing it the wrong way, etc...

I did the sound track and had many effect monster voice overs and we had to bring in the main actor to re lip many scenes.

One scene had the two main charactors at a camp site at night and one plays an accoustic guitar number called "cow tipping", which was actually a funny and well written piece.

One night, I decided to build it up like a over the top production in "blazing saddles" and brought in a keyboardist, horns, bass, and finally a drummer who was very proficient.

Since the original piece was recorded live on the film location, I had to rehearse sometimes each measure to get a feel for the timing fluctuations.

It took all night as in until dawn to get it tight with the guitar. I would bet my share of the 700 billion bailout that no drummer could ever do a take on that type of build.

Anyone who doesn't appreciate getting that drum track tight is a fool. You should be commended not rejected.

Once I did a guitar rythm as the starting track in real time, and it was a 6_ minute piece. I had the most talented drummer/multi-instrumentally proficient person I know, a natural at rythmic synchopation and he did the drum track in one take, with a stereo feed, and all with his fingers on a synthesizer. It was pretty amazing.
If you care to hear it, U2U me for a link.

You are the first person I've found that talked about that process and I want you to know, I for one, know what is involved to accomplish it.
Hi 5 to you.

Originally posted by imd12c4funn
Anyone who doesn't appreciate getting that drum track tight is a fool. You should be commended not rejected.

Hey man, thanks much for your kind words, flag, and interesting stories you have there! Added you as a friend. Us production people gotta stick together ya know! (ever been to gearslutz.com?)

And yep, you're right. It's one thing to sit down and play to something easy in 4, to a click, with predictable phrasing. But the challenge of this piece was really in learning all the breaks, weird passages, and timing fluctuations. Getting through that smoothly was rough with nothing but a set of headphones. And really I stopped after having cut that take. That was close enough where I wanted to see if this was the direction he wanted to go, so I stopped there. But I had intentions of doing much better on a "serious" take, with more intricate fills and more "out" playing, if you know what that term means in the jazz sense. And glad I stopped, because it wasn't what he wanted.

But hearing from people like you that really understand the process, and how challenging it can be really helps me feel vindicated. One good drummer friend of mine told me the drums were better than the keyboards, lol. I thank you once again much for your spirit lifting comments, and hey, please get an mp3 up and give us all something to listen to!

Regards,
TA

Reminds me of music from Sim City. That is a good thing. Ive always loved game music and this reminds me of it. Maybe you could consider that route. good money.

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85
Reminds me of music from Sim City. That is a good thing. Ive always loved game music and this reminds me of it. Maybe you could consider that route. good money.

lol, well I'm more of the FPS kinda guy myself. I hear ya though, thanks. Unfortunately in this case if you will see the OP, that ain't gonna happen with this tune.

Um, WOW. Given the amount of tempo acceleration and deceleration variance on his part (which says nothing bad about his playing as everyone has some, even world class classical pianists) you did an AMAZINGLY great job!

I wouldn't take what he said as a rejection so much as a statement of what he perceived as incongruous musical vision. He was probably imagining something totally different to what you played. I'm sure you've come up with things that you imagine in very specific ways only to have someone else suggest you do something totally divergent from that and been like, "Huh?" For instance, at about 1:28 you can hear him entering what might have been envisioned by him as a less percussive, more delicate part. Your interpretation was awesome, but maybe it just wasn't what he was envisioning.

You might want to see if he's willing to talk with you about what he wants; what he hears in his head. Then maybe you guys can collaborate more directly and end up with something that's natural to both of you yet consistent with what his "mind's ear" was thinking.

You did awesome, though. Nothing wrong with your playing whatsoever (or his for that matter.) I thought you were both awesome. Together the sound is sort of reminiscent of some of Tori Amos' more jazzy stuff.

I like it, but it does remind me of playing The Sims.
Definitely not my kind of music, but it's good.
Do you do work of your own?

Hiya Ace, thanks much for that. And you are probably right. It was SO far from what he envisioned, it just wasn't going to fly. He did call me back and said he had found another drummer that fit his vision better, and that was pretty much that. It just takes time to do that stuff, and the disappointment to my creative streak is the hardest to take, lol. I'd rather be dumped by a woman than have that...

No worries, though, I am pretty much over it. But glad you liked it, and realize kinda what it took to get it to that point. And I think that's the point he missed. I am a real drummer, and just wish he would have given my angle more of a chance, and developed more instrumentation around it to see where it might have gone. Hell, he said "fusion" in the ad. And that's what I gave him. What he really meant was washed up, overused, poppy sounding, straight beat cheese. I just wish he would have saved me the time and call a spade a spade if that's what he really wanted...

Edit to add:

Originally posted by WishForWings
I like it, but it does remind me of playing The Sims.
Definitely not my kind of music, but it's good.
Do you do work of your own?

Umm yes I do, but frankly I couldn't handle posting most of my current stuff. There is some older stuff already posted I have done on here, and a lot of it is collaborative works. I've realized that I just can't stand the heat, so prefer not to. I have also found the response usually to be lacking here, as this is mostly a conspiracy site, and not really the right venue.

[edit on 7-12-2008 by TrueAmerican]

Yeah that's sort of what I was hearing, too. Definitely not fusion, but I guess genres are hard to quantify (that's why I personally try not to even use those terms, but I know you have to call it something especially when advertising for a drummer of all things!)

Ah, well! There's room for everything under the sun in music land! I also totally understand about not being to handle posting your own stuff online. I only share my stuff with very close, trusted friends lol.

Putting it out there for all to see is TERRIFYING! (That's why I'll sadly never be able to do it for a living. But dammit, I still love it, and that's enough for me. ) Rock on, I say.

I agree with everything ACE said in his first post.

Great job, TA! I actually liked the music quite a bit...

reply to post by TrueAmerican


Excellent work hun, you put lots in it.. the pace was excellent... what can I say... I think it was a soul work ))

Hey man!

I've been playing guitar for over a decade and making my living in live sound for the last 5+ years.

Your drum playing is very good and even more so considering the rhythmic issues the keyboard player is having you did particularly well.

A previous poster said that he would not call this fusion and I would agree. I'm guessing from the keyboard style that the person wanted a very minimal drum sound, simply put he was probably intimidated by what you did. Or to put it another way, the keyboard player wanted to musically masturbate on the keyboard with drums backing/beefing up but not adding anything to the song. Just my experience talking...I've been playing Bass for nearly as long as guitars and learning drums the last couple of years and I will say that most people get intimidated if it isn't a straight 8th note beat, a shuffle...

It just takes time to do that stuff, and the disappointment to my creative streak is the hardest to take, lol. I'd rather be dumped by a woman than have that...

Know what you mean, I sent some tracks to a friend I used to collaborate with and she replied with...ummm....I can't sing over this. It seems like if I'm not their to guide in person she can't do anything different.

Creativity seems to be non-existent for most musicians but your playing really showed creativity, versatility and the ability to make something work that many would not have been able to.

lol, thanks mucho you all. It is really helpful to hear the nice comments. They mean a lot to me. It does take some time to get comments on music around here, but more often than not they are worth the wait! I particularly appreciate the insight of you guys that can see through what happened there, and what I was up against.

BH: You know of course how highly I value your opinion. Thanks.

vig: hun? lol, I sure hope you are a she. If so, then thanks hun! If not, who you calling hun? (me=straight white male, you know that disappearing species.)

SoC: nice post, thanks. I think for sure you know where I am coming from on this, and I think you are pretty much spot on. In fact, that same drummer friend of mine suggested the same thing: that he was probably looking for cheese so he could remain the star. "How DARE a drummer come along playing all that to MY stuff."

Bah, it's just music. Or is it.

So here's an interesting update to this, some 8 years later. The same guy gets a hold of me the other day, really apologetic like, and saying that he's really sorry he didn't consider this work more. He said he just wasn't ready at that time to understand what I had done on drums to his tune. Since, he's had his own band playing around locally, and gotten nowhere with his vision of the exact straight, boring and cheesy drum tracks that you guys have commented on in this thread. He thought that's what he wanted, but found out that isn't really making interesting music. Not really.

So now he's trying hard to get me in his band, calling me up and emailing. Some lessons just have to be learned the hard way though, and I'm not interested. Not after he did me like that, and just wrote me off. The moral of the story here is when someone takes an interest enough to put that kind of work into your own project for free, perhaps you really SHOULD listen and not just write them off without so much as even a thank you. Karma is a bitch. So eat it, sukka. No thank you. But it just feels good to get the last laugh for a change. And it's too bad too, because together we could have made some very cool music.

And btw, I miss ATS podcasts. Bring them back!

Oh, and btw, here is a link to many of the other music podcasts I have done here with all kinds of different stuff:
My Podcast Directory