Dear Mr. Obama

Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by SectionEight
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak and the timid."

General Dwight D. Eisenhower

Nowhere in that quote does Dwight suggest we go off "spreading democracy" while we erode away our freedoms at home.

Name me one freedom I don't enjoy today that I used to.

reply to post by round_eyed_dog


As a Vietnam veteran, I can tell you from my experience that anyone who says they support you as a warrior, but they don't support your cause fooling only himself.

In my generation, the anti-America crowd hated both us and the war, which was painful enough.

These kids today are getting a load of wishy-washy crap, but they aren't falling for it.

Fool yourself, if you wish, but the vast majority can see right through your charade.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
reply to post by round_eyed_dog

 

As a Vietnam veteran, I can tell you from my experience that anyone who says they support you as a warrior, but they don't support your cause fooling only himself.

In my generation, the anti-America crowd hated both us and the war, which was painful enough.

These kids today are getting a load of wishy-washy crap, but they aren't falling for it.

Fool yourself, if you wish, but the vast majority can see right through your charade.

So I suppose we should just not care and let someone else do the thinking for us. So are you saying that you would support, for example, a president dissolving congress and using the armed forces to beat back the citizens for president Obama?

I'm just throwing out a ridiculous statement to your ridiculous generalization. Do you notice how I never said that I didn't support THIS conflict? Did I ever say I didn't support the war in Iraq?

You made that generalization.

If you don't care enough about our troops to find out more about each particular conflict, why should they even defend us. They fight for our right to question our government, and I for one do not take that for granted.

Our leaders aren't demi-gods, they are fallible humans such as ourselves.

Have you ever made a mistake Grady? Don't we owe it to them to them to make sure their mission isn't one?

Thank you for serving in Vietnam, you laid down your life so that I can post on this little corner of the net.

I don't agree with you, but I certainly respect your service.

Originally posted by round_eyed_dog

So I suppose we should just not care and let someone else do the thinking for us. So are you saying that you would support, for example, a president dissolving congress and using the armed forces to beat back the citizens for president Obama?

I'm just throwing out a ridiculous statement to your ridiculous generalization. Do you notice how I never said that I didn't support THIS conflict? Did I ever say I didn't support the war in Iraq?

You made that generalization.

If you don't care enough about our troops to find out more about each particular conflict, why should they even defend us. They fight for our right to question our government, and I for one do not take that for granted.

Our leaders aren't demi-gods, they are fallible humans such as ourselves.

Have you ever made a mistake Grady? Don't we owe it to them to them to make sure their mission isn't one?

Thank you for serving in Vietnam, you laid down your life so that I can post on this little corner of the net.

I don't agree with you, but I certainly respect your service.

For some reason I can't star you so I'll just throw out a quick kudos.
Both of your posts were beautifully put. Bravo my friend.
Star in spirit.

[edit on 5-9-2008 by teeveesfrank]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Actions, my friend, speak louder than words, so really the commercial and it's message are accurate, regardless of your perspective.

Acuracy is only relative to facts. Those were merely the opinions of a McCain supporter who was hired to do a commercial; and, judging by his opinions, Mr. Cook has not really researched Obama's stance on the issues at hand.

If you're concerned with accuracy, then the testimony of Sgt. Jason Lemieux would certainly be of interest to you.



The facts stand that Saddam was not involved with 9/11, and that we were lead into a war with Iraq based on dishonest and misrepresented information. A war based on such can easily be labeled a "mistake". As Sgt. Lemieux witnessed, there are many "mistakes" also being used to whitewash the overall larger "mistake" of being there in the first place.

With all of that said, I do somewhat agree with you, Grady, in that I don't feel the war was a "mistake". The word "mistake" implies an unintentional/accidental misunderstanding or misconception, and I thoroughly believe that there was nothing unintentional about it. The administration purposefully molded intelligenge to support their predetermined agenda.

Putting our troops in harm's way based on lies is an abuse of, and an insult to our troops. If you truly want to support them, then fight to bring them home safely and stop their being abused.

[edit on 9/5/08 by redmage]

I get mad every time tha someone wants to you a current or former Iraq/ Afghanistan service member as political tools because it hurts my heart to be against a comrade.

I have served two tours in Iraq, one in Mosul and one in Balad. I witnessed the chow hall massacre in 2005, I was there. I remember my when a convoy of my comrades got ambush while returning from a activity in which they went to deliver toys to a school in the town that was near by our base, I lost some of my dear friends.

War should not be political, I sign up to serve, at first I thought I was serving a good mission, "helping the iraqis", but then the lies got exposed, no WMD'S, the case for the War got exposed and so on and so forth. I sign up for the military because I really had nothing for my life, in the crime and drug infested neighborhood of the small town in the island of Puerto Rico where I grew up. I barely spoke any english but always loved what the U.S. stand for. 9-11 was what finally pushed me to join, I told myself: " Rather die in a battlefield fighting for something, than dying in this ghetto that is worth nothing".

My story is not unique, our military is mostly comprised of teenagers coming out of poor neighborhoods, white, asians, hispanics, blacks, it dont matter we all share something in common, THAT WE WANT SOMETHING BETTER FOR OUR LIVES!!, we love our country and we respect those above us and trust them with our lives to make the right decisions.

The Iraq War had nothing to do with the right decisions, nothing to do with WMD's, nothing to do with imminet danger to the U.S., it was a war of choice, a war of greed. I was there and I remember busting my rear end 7 days a week for 16-18 hours while the KBR's contractors (aka Halliburton) that did my same job worked 10 hours and got paid $100,000 a year.

The Iraqis are the most corrupt citizens that I have met in the world, their only alliance is towards Allah and their tribal leaders, they would work on our base and then go out to the village and tell the insurgents where our chow halls where located, where our BX where located so they can aim their rockets better at us. I dont trust their army, because of one of them I saw almost 20 die while having a meal. They dont want to help themselves, why we should help them?

The surge has worked but is not what you hear about, is not because our overwhelming presence, is because the shiites and sunnis have decided to stop bombimg the crap out of each other and finally kick out Al-Qaeda from their soil, but once AQ is out they would go right back to fight each other, why? because the wounds that those two sector have inflict to each other date back to centuries, thats what they have always done.

And at the end what you have left is us, we got each others back. is us against them, is not U.S. against the terrorist, we feel already abandoned by our leaders, we take the deployments not because is our duty, not because we want to Drill, baby, Drill!!! we do it because of the guy that is right next to you, because you want him to return to his family alive and well and he wants the same for you.

In a time that we feel all but forgotten and used as pawns, we have each other to comfort ourselves and rely on.

Hope you understand... and won't be answering any questions or replies regarding this personal matter.

[edit on 5-9-2008 by Bunch]

[edit on 5-9-2008 by Bunch]

reply to post by round_eyed_dog


Your response is both nonsensical and insulting.

I've walked in the shoes of today's veterans and I know what they endure and in many cases I know how their lives will play out.

I've spent years studying the effects of war on veteans across many centuries, so your assertion that I am somehow ill-informed is preposterous.

I dare say that it is you who not only lacks an academic background in these matters, but also lacks the personal experience of fighting a war and facing a hostile or apathetic public on return.

You know not to whom you speak.

[edit on 2008/9/5 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Actions, my friend, speak louder than words

I feel the need to quote this phrase again because there's a lot of truth in it, especially in relation to your comment here...

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I'd be willing to bet that it's more like a thousand to one the other way.

It looks as if a certain segment (those actually serving abroad) are certainly putting their money where their mouth is, and as you said, "actions speak louder than words".

Military abroad favoring Obama, money-wise.

The Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan group that tracks campaign money, reported today that Obama has received nearly six times as much money from troops deployed overseas at the time of their contributions than McCain.

Instead of getting paid for their support, like Mr. Cook, these young men & women are actually paying their hard earned money 6-to-1 in favor of the person they feel would do the best job as their Commander in Chief. Actions certainly do speak louder than words.

[edit on 9/5/08 by redmage]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
reply to post by round_eyed_dog

 

Your response is both nonsensical and insulting.

Well, I guess we can both agree there as that's exactly how I found your post.

You continue to dodge answering any of my questions by attacking me. I suppose that is more telling than actually coming up with a response.

Don't we owe it to them to be vigilant?

It seems as if you have a lot of anger bottled up there Grady. This is quite sad but It's also understandable as It was absolutely shameful how some of our vets were treated after the war. The fury should have been sent straight to our leaders and not the soldiers were simply doing there job.

My point is simply this:

We owe to our brave men and women to make sure that they are fighting for something worth dying for. We owe it to them to take their leaders, be it Mr. Obama or Mr. McCain to task.

Originally posted by Bunch
I get mad every time tha someone wants to you a current or former Iraq/ Afghanistan service member as political tools because it hurts my heart to be against a comrade.

I have served two tours in Iraq, one in Mosul and one in Balad. I witnessed the chow hall massacre in 2005, I was there. I remember my when a convoy of my comrades got ambush while returning from a activity in which they went to deliver toys to a school in the town that was near by our base, I lost some of my dear friends.

War should not be political, I sign up to serve, at first I thought I was serving a good mission, "helping the iraqis", but then the lies got exposed, no WMD'S, the case for the War got exposed and so on and so forth. I sign up for the military because I really had nothing for my life, in the crime and drug infested neighborhood of the small town in the island of Puerto Rico where I grew up. I barely spoke any english but always loved what the U.S. stand for. 9-11 was what finally pushed me to join, I told myself: " Rather die in a battlefield fighting for something, than dying in this ghetto that is worth nothing".

My story is not unique, our military is mostly comprised of teenagers coming out of poor neighborhoods, white, asians, hispanics, blacks, it dont matter we all share something in common, THAT WE WANT SOMETHING BETTER FOR OUR LIVES!!, we love our country and we respect those above us and trust them with our lives to make the right decisions.

The Iraq War had nothing to do with the right decisions, nothing to do with WMD's, nothing to do with imminet danger to the U.S., it was a war of choice, a war of greed. I was there and I remember busting my rear end 7 days a week for 16-18 hours while the KBR's contractors (aka Halliburton) that did my same job worked 10 hours and got paid $100,000 a year.

The Iraqis are the most corrupt citizens that I have met in the world, their only alliance is towards Allah and their tribal leaders, they would work on our base and then go out to the village and tell the insurgents where our chow halls where located, where our BX where located so they can aim their rockets better at us. I dont trust their army, because of one of them I saw almost 20 die while having a meal. They dont want to help themselves, why we should help them?

The surge has worked but is not what you hear about, is not because our overwhelming presence, is because the shiites and sunnis have decided to stop bombimg the crap out of each other and finally kick out Al-Qaeda from their soil, but once AQ is out they would go right back to fight each other, why? because the wounds that those two sector have inflict to each other date back to centuries, thats what they have always done.

And at the end what you have left is us, we got each others back. is us against them, is not U.S. against the terrorist, we feel already abandoned by our leaders, we take the deployments not because is our duty, not because we want to Drill, baby, Drill!!! we do it because of the guy that is right next to you, because you want him to return to his family alive and well and he wants the same for you.

In a time that we feel all but forgotten and used as pawns, we have each other to comfort ourselves and rely on.

Hope you understand... and won't be answering any questions or replies regarding this personal matter.

[edit on 5-9-2008 by Bunch]

[edit on 5-9-2008 by Bunch]

That was amazing Bunch.


I will simply say thank you for serving.




[edit on 5-9-2008 by round_eyed_dog]

Originally posted by redmage

Military abroad favoring Obama, money-wise.

The Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan group that tracks campaign money, reported today that Obama has received nearly six times as much money from troops deployed overseas at the time of their contributions than McCain.

Through June 30, Obama had received 134 donations totaling about $61,000 to 99 totaling about $45,500 for Paul, and 26 contributions totaling less than $11,000 for McCain

www.boston.com...

That's an interesting statistic, but there really isn't enough information there to draw any conclusion. It's not that many donations and frankly, the men in the ranks are not likely to be donating much money to political causes because they don't make that much.

It'd be interesting to see where that figure is today. These data are from June. In political terms, that was a long time ago.

Originally posted by round_eyed_dog
It seems as if you have a lot of anger bottled up there Grady.

Don't patronize me.

You question the word of someone who's been there and done that and then tell me I'm angry when I remind you that when it comes to facts, you're more than a little light.

And when it comes to the treatment of troops, those like you aren't doing them any favors.

So, climb off your high horse and get down here with those who know a little about the reality of service.

You might even consider service, instead of standing in no-man's land.

[edit on 2008/9/5 by GradyPhilpott]

reply to post by Bunch


Bunch

I'll thank you for your service and I'll go one further and remind you that your service nor your mission was in vain.

Your war and my war were among the hardest to fight. When goals and missions become muddled by human error, morale is hard to maintain when your own countrymen are your worst enemy.

There has never been a war when intelligence was not faulty or men did not spend time serving in a theater that was less important than another or when declared objectives were found to be off target.

What is important in these times is that men like you are willing to serve in the interest of peace and freedom.

It's rough when you first get back. You suffered and sacrificed and you've witnessed the worst and what is worse, when you get back there are those who pretend to care about you, when they really care about destroying all you sacrificed for.

When it comes to comparing contractors to soldiers, you're way off base. Contractors are not there to do your job. Your job is national service and it's not a lucrative career and it never has been, although you and your generation do better than we did in my day.

If the job of a contractor and those wages appeal to you, you can go back in that capacity, but it does no one any good to compare the military and contractors. Neither can work without the other. Contractors go there to make money, while those like you and me have loftier goals. You will come to understand, I assure you.

When you say that it is the veterans who must hang together and offer each other support, you are exactly correct. That is one thing that has been true since the dawn of warfare and it will never change.

Use that to your advantage and join a veterans' organization. Attend meetings. Volunteer in VA hospitals and offer support to those who will respect your service in a way no others can.

I will tell you from my experience that it's too early for you to assess this war or your place in it, but in my own experience and based on my interaction with those who've served in every war since WWI, in the long run, you will cherish those days like no other and your freedom will mean more to you than it ever could to those who simply inherit theirs.

The most important thing is to keep the faith and stand with those who share your experience and trust that with the advantage of hindsight, you'll see the world in clearer terms than those who sat on their hands and offered weasel-words in a time of national need.

[edit on 2008/9/5 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by round_eyed_dog
It seems as if you have a lot of anger bottled up there Grady.

Don't patronize me.

You question the word of someone who's been there and done that and then tell me I'm angry when I remind you that when it comes to facts, you're more than a little light.

And when it comes to the treatment of troops, those like you aren't doing them any favors.

So, climb off your high horse and get down here with those who know a little about the reality of service.

You might even consider service, instead of standing in no-man's land.

[edit on 2008/9/5 by GradyPhilpott]

See, the issue here is not questioning your word but questioning our government.

Why is this so terrible?

How am I patronizing you? I specifically said you were understandably angry.

Unfortuanately, since I walk with a cane because of complications from Spondylolysis I doubt they would want me.

I'm also too damn old.

Grady thanks for showing yet again the powerful "arrogant ignorance" of so many on this website. Those who lie and say "we support the troops" yet at every chance rip down the flag the "troops" fight for, a flag that represents the worlds last best hope for freedom from tyranny.

Thanks and Semper Fi.



Obama is a marxist liar who will destroy america and become another Stalin..............

Originally posted by round_eyed_dog
Unfortuanately, since I walk with a cane because of complications from Spondylolysis I doubt they would want me.

I'm also too damn old.

Service is not limited to the young or the able-bodied.

There are many avenues for those who want to make a meaningful contribution to one's community and to the world.


[edit on 2008/9/5 by GradyPhilpott]

Whats this I see?

Our forces have killed more innocents "by mistake"


Truly a shame.

I feel dreadful for this kid.
All he's lost in service to his country.
He and his kind are to be commended, to be lauded, to be cherished, and to be helped in any way we can.

I also feel dreadfully sorry for him.
He’ll probably never be able to face the truth no matter how much proof is shown him.
The truth that he lost his leg - for a great big fat ugly filthy lie.
God help him if he does ever find the truth and take it to heart as he’ll realize even more fully all he did loose, and, in realizing this feel even more insulted, injured.

In his case maybe it’s true, being naive = being blissfull.

I hope all that’s good in the world visits him always.



...I feel safer knowing you're there...

[edit on 5-9-2008 by silo13]

Another sensationalist commercial made to discredit an opponent, how surprising. At what point did politics become more about how much the other guy sucks, and less about what good YOU will do for your country? Entire campaigns are made to discredit, sensationalize events, or otherwise make your opponent look like an insensative, dumb, arrogant, ruthless jerk. You cannot put too much into these sorts of things.

I served in the Army, overseas, and I don't think Obama feels the way the way they make him sound like they WANT you to believe he thinks. Gee, let's put the one-legged guy on TV, that'll buy us some votes! Politics often make me sick to my stomach.

Originally posted by SectionEight

Originally posted by eNumbra

Originally posted by SectionEight
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak and the timid."

General Dwight D. Eisenhower

Nowhere in that quote does Dwight suggest we go off "spreading democracy" while we erode away our freedoms at home.

Name me one freedom I don't enjoy today that I used to.

My apologies, you clearly weren't ready to have the wool removed from your eyes...

continue warmongering and ignore anything said to the contrary because the only way to defend freedom is to attack people who didn't do a thing to us.

edit: And before someone can misconstrue that, I'm talking about Iraq not Afghanistan

[edit on 9/5/2008 by eNumbra]