Why Ghosts are not Real

reply to post by NephraTari


Then again, here we go. Someone making claims about what goes on in the after life. No scientific proof! Move on and get over it

You claim things when their root hasn't even been proven to exist! How....ill informed.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by NephraTari


There we go, curse, like a child.

Proof is something that can be tested. So your saying because your proof isn't scientific it's our fault?



*Mod Edit: Editted out the personal statements. Cheers - ALIEN

[edit on 7-10-2008 by alien]

CUE STANDARD MOD SPEECH

Hey People,

Just a polite reminder to keep things civil.

Personal attacks serve nothing and noone. They merely detract from the point you wish to make.

I've issued a Warn to a Member and editted another.

Please lets stick to the accepted etiquette of 'attack the post not the poster'.


Thank you.

reply to post by Soulstone


First, you assume that all the spirits of those killed during 9/11 decided to stay behind...why would they, if they had somewhere better to go?

Secondly, there are some indiividuals that believe ghosts are everywhere, such as Mary Ann Winkowski.

I never believed in Shadow Beings - even though I'm a paranormal investigator......until I encountered one myself.

If you read about Hyperspace or string theory, certainly provide for the possibility. I personally, try to keep an open mind as I realize that ghosts and other creatures may not actually be exactly what we think they are. However, I'm sure that one day, we will all learn the truth about not only ghosts but other paranormal creatures as well.

reply to post by alien


My apologies. But why would you foe me?!

By the way, there have been pets reported and photographed. I've gotten EVPs of animials in locations where the owners did not have any pets. I actually lost one of my cats -she was hit by a car. She use to sleep under my bed alot and at night when I turned out the lights, she would either dart into the closet or go to the door and cry to go out. 2 days after we buried her, as soon as I turned off the lights that evening, I heard her cry to get out. Without thinking, I responded and got up to open the bedroom door and then stood there waiting for her to leave the room. Nothing. I called her name and then turned the light on to look for her - totally forgetting that she had died two days earlier. My spouse just looked at me strangely and then I realized that she couldn't be there. The following night, I turned off the lights and swore I saw her dart from under the bed to the closet - again, I called out to her and got up and checked the closet after turning the light on. Again, nothing. But that was it, we never heard her again after that.

As far as locations with horrible tragedies not having ghosts - I friend of mine recently presented that question on another forum. I will tell you this.......one of the reasons you may not hear about reports from those places is that many people feel uncomfortable about being in these locations and so they don't usually stay long. To find a ghost, you have to be willing to stay in those locations for extended periods of time to observe anything. My friend toured one of the concentration camps in Germany and told us that her discomfort was so profound that she couldn't bring herself to even finish the tour. I would also add that for individuals that are sensitive, especially to emotion, some of these places are totally overwhelming. I've walked many a battlefield across the US and I've stood on the Arizona memorial. Many of these places are controlled by the Park Services. Many of them have reports of being haunted....some that I know of are The Alamo, Little Big Horn, Gettysburg, Concord, Gallows Hill, Chalmette, Ft Monroe, Fredricksburg......and the list goes on. If you question this, take a look at Haunted Places Directory by Dennis William Hauck.

reply to post by Soulstone


Hi Soulstone,

I assure you have haven't 'friended' or 'foed' anyone here at ATS. I'm sure we Staff don't have that option - much like the Ignore option we can't use (nor can anyone use it on us either...as much as they may wish to )

I see in your Profile you have a Respected Foe of 'alienj'...so chances are its the *glitch* in the ATS-Matrix - discussed HERE in Board Questions that seems to add people with similar user names...hence your name showing up on mine.

In my profile the list of Friends and Foes are only those who have Friended or Foed me.
As the box states:

I'm a Foe Of:
These members have picked me as their worthy adversaries.

...so...in some wierd way it could be seen you added me...


Its just a glitch. Don't worry - I don't/can't add 'Friends' or 'Foes' as a Staff Member.



Peace.

Ok. Instead of empty promises, I took some time out of my day today and made a couple of amateurish videos with our EVPs in them. To date, these are two of our best captures. I apologize in advance for the crap production value, but at least you get the audio, and that's the important part.

This first video is of the dual source confirmed EVP. One audio source is an Olympus DS4000, the other is a Sony DCR-HC48 MiniDV Camcorder. Both were running simultaneous in the same room. The DS400 picks up nothing unusual, but the HC48 does. None of us heard the extra voice while in the room. It was only found after review of our material.



This second video is from Waverly Hills. We had an investigation in July of this year. A few of us had personal experiences, and we still have audio and video to review from that investigation. However, a couple of days after the investigation, this was found. At the time of this recording, there were only three people in the room. One male, two females, all of them are part of our group. No one else was in the area. The voice you are hearing is not our male investigator. I have yet to review the full audio sample myself, or compare it with the two other audio sources from that room. Once I do, I will have a more complete analysis. This voice was not heard by any of the investigators in that room. Whatever it is, it's very close to the microphone. Most EVPs are garbled, or very hard to understand. This one, sent chills down my spine.



I know that some people will call this fake, and that's fine. But I will let you know that our group consists of a broad range of open-minded skeptics. We range from House wives to law enforcement. We screen potential investigators, and weed out anyone who might be a bit, as you say, over the top. All of us are level headed, and no one in our group would do anything to compromise our integrity as a serious group of researchers. In fact, when we went to Waverly, we almost turned around and left, because the "Tour Guides" were a bit over the top, and we figured we were just wasting our time.

reply to post by alien


Hi alien, I respect your thoughts on dave420 and I guess you may have assumed that I was referring to dave420 in my previous post. With all due respect, I am referring to anyone who is making remarks to others that are blatently disrepectful of their belief, be it right or wrong. We are all entitled to our beliefs and should post these respectfully without taking direct insulting shots at them. I admit that Dave420 is but one of many who lacks due respect. An example quoted from one of his previous posts is "Belief in something without evidence is irrational. You, by definition, are being irrational." In my opinion, this is a direct blow to the poster who simply stated their belief so hence, it should have been edited. Such comments do nothing more than create animosity and insult resulting in posts that get out of control. I agree, that challenges are a good thing but certain remarks stray outside of acceptable challenge. Sorry, I cannot respect someone who shows no respect for others.

reply to post by Oreyeon


First off let me say that I deeply respect you taking the time to prove your point. For that I am giving you a star. With that said it's just gargled noises as far as I can tell. At least the first one seems like junk. The second I found to be very impressive. There is obviously a distinct voice there but you can't seem to make out what it's saying. Which makes me doubtful it is someone trying to be heard. It could be from anything. I am very skeptical of EVPs. I thought I had one once not too long ago. I was able to edit the audio and splice it and found out it was just a mixture of the different noises seeming to make a voice.

Try letting people listen to EVPs without telling them what you think the person is saying. I can guarantee almost every time they'll hear something different. It's what you give them to identify with that makes them hear what your hearing. Example: I couldn't make out any of the words that the alleged ghost was saying in the second video. But once I read what it's suppose to be, I heard it.

reply to post by intrigued2


Completely understand where you're coming from.

Dunno - maybe its a cultural thing, which teaches us to respect even our fiercest and unforgiving of enemies for inevitably they make us stronger.

And as a side issue - again which perhaps highlights my aforementioned brain having fallen out - in the wider scheme of things...moving in *those areas* of spirit...hey, a verbal attack from a living person? What really is that in comparison to 'getting pinged' by the *other side*???



Peace.

reply to post by Soulstone


Explain ball lightning. Explain heat bursts. Explain megacryometeors. Explain how magnetism works. Explain gravity. Explain how human beings can pull off extraordinary feats in extraordinary situations that Science says is biologically impossible.

I'm not here advocating either side of the OP. All I'm doing is illustrating that there ARE MANY natural phenomena that all of us are exposed to that Science cannot explain for the simple fact that it is beyond our means right now. Whether or not ghosts exist at this point in time cannot be backed up by hard, scientific evidence. For example, there's people in Buddhist monasteries who do some pretty whacked out, bat-# insane things. Scientists have seen. Scientists have documented it. Scientists cannot explain it...because we do not posses the technology yet.

Science has thought a lot of things were impossible through the ages and were wrong about that. The airplane, for example. 500 years ago no one could even begin to imagine the Internet. So, my question is: How hard is it to accept that ghosts, among other things, possibly exist? Honestly, logically, they could. I do not disbelieve, but simply accept the possibility and go on about my daily business. If Science someday proves ghosts exist, great. If Science someday proves ghosts don't exist beyond a shadow of a doubt, that's great too. It furthers knowledge. It furthers mankind. Instead, we have people getting all riled up over what amounts to hearsay...and we have close minded people like dave420, whom I have had the personal displeasure of encountering in other posts. People like that treat Science like they were hardcore religious fundamentalists. That is not Science. If you're so curious about ghosts, why not go out and try to prove whether they exist or not? I'm sure they hand out Nobel Prizes for that.

Originally posted by Soulstone
reply to post by Oreyeon

 

First off let me say that I deeply respect you taking the time to prove your point. For that I am giving you a star. With that said it's just gargled noises as far as I can tell. At least the first one seems like junk. The second I found to be very impressive. There is obviously a distinct voice there but you can't seem to make out what it's saying. Which makes me doubtful it is someone trying to be heard. It could be from anything. I am very skeptical of EVPs. I thought I had one once not too long ago. I was able to edit the audio and splice it and found out it was just a mixture of the different noises seeming to make a voice.

Try letting people listen to EVPs without telling them what you think the person is saying. I can guarantee almost every time they'll hear something different. It's what you give them to identify with that makes them hear what your hearing. Example: I couldn't make out any of the words that the alleged ghost was saying in the second video. But once I read what it's suppose to be, I heard it.

Well, I respectfully respect that you are respecting me, but I think you missed the point entirely here. Just my opinion. The point of the first EVP is to show you that something "IS" there. Two sources, recording at the same time. One source picks up a disconnected vocal, the other does not. Clearly this demonstrates that there was something in the vicinity that was vocalizing through a frequency range that was neither audible by human ear, nor the Olympus DS4000's frequency range. It was however within the audio range of the DCR-HC48. We used devices that all have different frequency ranges. Most EVPs fall below 1000 hertz.

As for the second EVP, if you cannot clearly hear "Hey, I've been doing this a long time." , then you may want to play it a few more times. It's so clear that we even had our doubts about it at first. And an FYI, we let our investigators provide input on what they hear, before we share our analysis. I only provided my analysis here, so that I could provide my evidence as requested.

reply to post by Torsten


Your post was very well put Torsten!!! I don't think anybody else could have explained the essence of this as well as you have. You may agree or disagree with the existence of ghosts and the like, but you have a natural ability to keep an open mind about the possibilities without the use of insulting overtures. You are definitely a friend to me and marked as such!!!!

well i can say in all hnoesty that i lived in a "haunted" house for 12 years.
i had real encounters.
i cant say i ever saw a full human figure. as strange as it sounds I saw a figure of a human from the waste down.. but i had been sleeping and awoke to this.. so i guess it could be questionable.

but as far as my real experiences..
i have witnessed objects flying across a room. and no i did not see it in mid air.. because it happened too fast. but it happened.
my grandmother who never ever believed in such things actually saw a person and a "demon" in the form of my mother. that was a genuine experience... i had never seen her so terrified.

but the label "Ghost" is very very vague. there could be a better explanation than saying ITS GHOSTS! maybe these figures are not dead. maybe they are alive. ::Shrug::

my two cents.

reply to post by Torsten


We need more people like you on these boards, who are willing to accept the possibilities instead of blindly clinging to one side of the argument or the other like fanatical fundamentalists, as you pointed out.

reply to post by Torsten


Dude, your post really hit home with me. In all honesty. I'm not going to be a hard ass biased jerk anymore.

Starred for excellence

[edit on 9-10-2008 by Soulstone]

reply to post by dave420


Santa Claus was based off a real person by the way, and as for the comment about their being as much evidence of ghosts as Santa Claus. I never been visited by Santa Claus, but I sure damn have been visited by a ghost or a spirit. There are hundreds upon thousands of sightings of ghosts all over history. From death echos to actual intelligent haunting. Hell we even had president Andrew Jackson get entertain and messed with by a spirit or ghost, check out the bell witch story. As for the comment about the dude and WTC and why there isn't any ghosts, many psychics believe the souls that perished there have all moved on.

I have seen what is needed to be seen. I now have faith such things exist. I have found the answer to my questions.