Why the Persecution of Illegal Aliens

Original Poster - Look up the concept of 5th column.
Last POster - Sorry but illegal is illegal.

Originally posted by harvib
Simple. Remove the Government beurocracies that create the ability for individuals to live off the fruits of others. That is the major complaint isn't it? Fine get rid of it all. Instead we create all these programs and then complain when people use them.

Which bureaucracies?

Which programs?

Who exactly is living off the fruits of others?

You're just talking in nonsensical societal generalizations.

Try and focus - what SPECIFICALLY would your policy be with regards to immigration?

Originally posted by harvib
reply to post by jfj123

 

All I have to say at this point is

Press 1 to continue in English....

huh???????

Ok. Can you help me to understand why this would bother you? Should other cultures not be allowed in America? I find this confusing as I thought America has always been a melting pot. Would this still bother you if migrants were coming in legally? I thought the premise of the majority was it is not a racial or cultural issue. Surely this is an indication that it is, at least in part. No?

I bet if you go to any other country in the world, you won't see this type of cow towing. For example, lets say I decide to goto France and call information....I bet it won't say "Press 1 to continue in French".....

Since English is the primary language in the US, why isn't it given primary importance? Why do I need to learn a new language so I can follow instructions or get a phone number?

I work in the construction industry and it is being wiped out by illegals and those who use them.

Has anyone been to a Home Depot or Lowes??? Notice every sign in the stores has a duplicate in spanish? The reason is that every spring there is a large influx of illegals when the building and remodeling season starts so they've decided to bow to the illegals and put up signs all over the store.

reply to post by Retseh


Welfare, social security, SSI, Medicaid, minimum wage, etc.,etc, etc.



[edit on 13-8-2008 by harvib]

Just another quick reminder everyone...

Just before you click on that "Post Reply" button we all are so very fond of; take a look at your post.

Is it about the topic and not another member?

Does it contribute to the discussion?

Does it express what I am thinking and not just my anger, or frustration?

If your answers to the above questions are YES, HIT THAT BUTTON AND LET'S SEE WHAT YA GOT...

If you can not answer yes to that, maybe you should reevaluate your post or walk away for a bit... The Staff here at ATS takes action on personal attacks and off topic posts, we absolutely do not like to, but continued violations force us to....

This is a very heated and emotional discussion, but always remember...

Cooler heads will prevail

Semper

swift and company meat packers were raided by feds in six states for illegal immigrants feds said that an investigation started in feb into large identity theft cases they found that some used rightful birthcertificates and some were using stolen social security numbers.. and others used other fake ideniification. this was back in 2006 according to fox.com.. trying to find updated material, or at least from another source..

Press 1 to continue in English....

Ok. Can you help me to understand why this would bother you? Should other cultures not be allowed in America?

I know you weren't asking me, but I'd like to respond because it is one of the things that greatly bothers me. Of course other cultures are allowed in America, but allowing them is not the same as catering to them.

There have been many generations and "waves" of immigrants from different countries who have come to America. And yet, I don't recall ever having had the option of receiving government services in German, Irish, French, Polish, or any other language. Our "official" language in America, our "national' language, is English.

I do understand why retail and commercial businesses go bilingual. I don't like it when I'm faced with a salesperson or customer service rep who can't speak English well enough for us to understand each other, but I do understand why they do it. They want the immigrants' money, which is just as green and spends just as well as anyone else's.

But I do not understand why government agencies and government services have gone bilingual. That's my tax money they're using to make everything accessible to people who speak Spanish, and I find it unacceptable. The language of America is English. If you want to come here and be an American, learn English. Just like I did. English is not my first language either, but both my mother and I learned it in a hurry when we arrived here from Germany (legally). And if I decided to leave America and go live in another country, I would expect to have to learn their language.

If you don't want to become an American, then don't come and live in America. If you do, learn the language. Pretty simple in my opinion.

In many places now I have heard that the test for a driver's license is even offered in Spanish, which makes no sense at all. If you can't read English, how can you read the road signs which are all written in English?

I have my own culture and I respect - and often enjoy- other peoples' cultures, but that has nothing to do with "Press 1 for English."

reply to post by Heike

If you don't want to become an American, then don't come and live in America. If you do, learn the language. Pretty simple in my opinion.

In many places now I have heard that the test for a driver's license is even offered in Spanish, which makes no sense at all. If you can't read English, how can you read the road signs which are all written in English?

Errr. I hate this debate because it is always a slippery slope that leads to individuals arguing that Englsih is the language of the land. However for those of hispanic origin that are citizens who pay taxes just like anybody else shouldn't they have a say in what language they recieve their forms in? Or when they call a government office?

I know I am going to get several replys to this post that will say that English is the official language and everything involving the government should be done in English. To those that are going to make that argument read the whole post. A person's comprehension will always be higher in their native tounge. If a person is a citizen they deserve to be able to fully comprehend government corrspondances. Do they not? After all their tax dollars contribute as much to those forms, signs, and automated systems.

Originally posted by harvib
A person's comprehension will always be higher in their native tounge. If a person is a citizen they deserve to be able to fully comprehend government corrspondances. Do they not? After all their tax dollars contribute as much to those forms, signs, and automated systems.

Okay. If that's the argument, then why only Spanish? Why don't the Chinese and the Japanese and the various flavors of Europeans get the same choice? Why the special treatment just for the Spanish-speaking?

But you see, all those other immigrants didn't get that choice. Heck, not even the Native Americans - who were here first and really should be catered to if anyone is - get the option of receiving government services in their native tongue. The Chinese had to learn English. The Japanese had to learn English. The Irish had to learn English. The Germans had to learn English. Everyone who has ever immigrated to America has been expected to learn English - except, now, the Spanish-speaking immigrants.

That is not fair, and not reasonable. Besides, are there any other countries which offer government services in another language to accommodate immigrants? If I were able to immigrate to Mexico, would I be offered services in English? No. I would be expected to learn Spanish.

And no, their tax dollars do not contribute "just as much." I am concerned that it may not be so for much longer, but for now English-speaking citizens are still the overwhelming majority and most of the tax dollars therefore come from people who speak English.

reply to post by Gateway



I had to reply to this post, If by your logic of one rule for everyone, then why dont we use the rule applied to all of those legal europeans that came here. The rule was simple, if you can afford a ticket to cross the Atlantic you're good to go. Many forget this when arguing how their ancesters(europeans) did it legally. The only reason you dont see more illegal european immigrants here is simple, geographical differences. It is sometimes spun as if Europeans are somehow better than those in latin countries. Look at the number of illegals in this country and where they come from. Im willing to bet the majority are from Mexico(our closest neighboor) and those numbers dwindle as you go further south. I personally do agree that we cant keep everyone who wants to come here but I also see that most of these people are here to give their kids a better life, not to join gangs. So I dont see why say all illegal aliens are terrible people. I dont think I'm a terrible human being when I go over the speed limit, or I download a song from the internet.

There were Irish and Italian gangs in the late 1800s-early 1900s, so does that mean all irish and Italians were bad people? Of course not, it just means that they are not an exception to the old "there are bad apples in every tree" saying. My stance is deport/get rid of all gang members, drug smugglers, etc. and let those who are genuingly here to work stay. I realize some see it as rewarding criminals, I see it as rewarding a hard worker.

reply to post by Heike

Okay. If that's the argument, then why only Spanish?

Government forms are available in other languages. Despite what you have heard.

www.ssa.gov...

Originally posted by harvib
Government forms are available in other languages. Despite what you have heard.

We weren't talking about forms. Or at least I wasn't, and whoever originally posted about "Press 1 for English" wasn't talking about forms. We were talking about the fact that you can call a government agency on the telephone and have to press a button to proceed in the official national language rather than Spanish. "Press 1 for English, press 2 for Spanish," or whatever. Two choices. Not ten, or even three. Just two. Spanish or English, not any other language.

Anyway, you asked for an explanation of why it bothers me. You got it. I'm not demanding that you agree with it, although I really don't see what the problem is with expecting people who want to become Americans to learn the language of America. I did.

Originally posted by Fuggle
reply to post by harvib

 

Harvib,

From my experience discussing the matter with people who have a problem with Mexicans illegally migrating into the USA, I suspect that the issue is really a matter of racism, unfortunately.

I love when people automatically assume racism to be the reason we are upset about illegal immi's. You automatically assume that we mean mexicans, but truth is they are a large majority of the illegals we see, however there are tons of other nationalities who fall into that category. All illegal immigrants are just that...ummmm....ILLEGAL.. that is why we use the term. They don't help boost the economy in most part because other than the minimal money they spend on an apartment that 29 of them split rent on they seem to have a habit of sending most of their illegally earned money back to their respective countries and families in those countries. I have worked in the past in many a restaurant with a ton of illegal immigrants and although I liked the majority of them they are a drain on our society no matter how you look at it. If illegal immigrants should be fine to live in our country without any repercussions then they should let out the majority of criminals in prison and let felons and violent crime offenders own guns. I know it is not quite the same but they are all illegal in one way or the other so what would the difference be? OHHH but illegal immigrants are not criminals...wait...yet they are! they are in our country illegally, that being said I have been deported from a country because my Visa ran out and there was no bleeding heart nationals who gave a rats ass! So why the problems? The real problem is to many nancy ass bleeding hearts in our country whose reign will soon be our downfall.

reply to post by harvib


Errr. I hate this debate because it is always a slippery slope that leads to individuals arguing that Englsih is the language of the land. However for those of hispanic origin that are citizens who pay taxes just like anybody else shouldn't they have a say in what language they recieve their forms in? Or when they call a government office?

Fair enough so where are all the signs and conveniences for the french, polish, hungarians, russians, japanese, etc... ?
They pay taxes too I'm sure.
I've never heard press 2 for japanese, press 3 for russian, press 4 for french, press 5 for polish, press 6 for cherokee, etc..

There is only one answer to the current problem of illegal immigrants...Robots!

[SNIP] labor, third world outsourcing, road gangs, sharecropping, concentration camps, indentured servitude, feudal peasants, conscript monument builders, etc...all words for slavery. Slavery in some form or fashion has been around since one human bonked the other on the head for the first time and said, "Do this!" And slavery will always be a part of the human condition as long as one man feels superior to another.

So if we want to eliminate illegal immigration we will have to trade it for another form of slavery. Unless you want it to be one of the other choices offered above, ya better get to work on those robots.

Mod Edit: Removed racist term

[edit on 14-8-2008 by Gemwolf]

The problem is not the illegal immigrants but our government for allowing the problem in the first place. As has already been said Mexico guards its southern border why are we not guarding ours? Homeland Security is whining about terrorism etc but we leave our border so wide open that military units from another country are repeatedly crossing it.

I do not understand why there is any debate at all. Close the border, determine how many people should be allowed into the country and allow them to enter LEGALLY. Issn't that why we pay taxes and elect officials? So we can have a land with law and order not chaos?

And do not tell me the border is too long. We have the man power and the technology to close that border. There reason it is open is because it is to the advantage of the corporations who knowingly hire illegals at low wages. Follow the money...

Just wanted to add for those of you saying send them all back this article tells you it cost 51 Million in the past 4 years to fly "them" back HAHAHA

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Ya send them all back well pay billions

[edit on 14-8-2008 by M4K4V3LI]

Originally posted by jfj123
reply to post by harvib

 

Errr. I hate this debate because it is always a slippery slope that leads to individuals arguing that Englsih is the language of the land. However for those of hispanic origin that are citizens who pay taxes just like anybody else shouldn't they have a say in what language they recieve their forms in? Or when they call a government office?

Fair enough so where are all the signs and conveniences for the french, polish, hungarians, russians, japanese, etc... ?
They pay taxes too I'm sure.
I've never heard press 2 for japanese, press 3 for russian, press 4 for french, press 5 for polish, press 6 for cherokee, etc..

The problem is people think that the melting pot term means bring your culture with you. It was supposed to be a mixing a cultures, not multiple cultures existing under one blanket.

So far as people who scream racism, and wonder why ere only going after hispanics: Don't you go after the biggest part of the problem first?

This sounds like a real good reason to build the fence that was voted for and keep them out in the first place! Isn't it nice to know the cattle port-of-entry at Santa Teresa, NM, is operated by Chihuahuan cattle producers [Mexican] on both sides of border? Doesn't sound like the US is interested in guarding our borders at all from anything!

at Santa Teresa, NM, Chihuahuan cattle producers [Mexican] operate both sides of the cattle port-of-entry