(Website Claims..) Iraqi Cilvilians Massacared By American Soldiers (Highly Graphic)

Originally posted by Sonya610
Yeah...and what are your thoughts after having watched the video?

Those rounds in the vehicle weren't from a helicopter. If it was, that car would be in pieces. The entry holes are too small. They are also at a bad angle if it's from above. Looks like the vehicles ran into an ambush.

Okay then, and you watched the videos showing small weapons (well small barrels...not judging) firing and you know for a fact it could not possibly be American soldiers.

Yes?

Originally posted by Sonya610
Okay then, and you watched the videos showing small weapons (well small barrels...not judging) firing and you know for a fact it could not possibly be American soldiers.

And you have proof it was from US Soldiers? I see some shot up vehicles and dead civilians.

So, automatically, it MUST have been from US Soldiers, right?

No i do not have proof. I am not a bullistic expert, and I can pretty much guarantee no experts are going to research it. And on some levels i do not care who killed them.

They are dead, torn up, their faces shot full of holes, they are kids.

So is it all about "who did it?" Is that all you can say? Wtf?

Originally posted by Sonya610
So is it all about "who did it?" Is that all you can say? Wtf?

Yep, all I can say is "Who did it" because I'd like them punished. Slowly.

reply to post by Sonya610


I am going to have to agree with Jericho here, that is what this article is about, is who did it. In this case the article is about the accusations that American Soldiers did this. The debate is weather based on the assumptions of the author and the op if there is any real evidence that could possibly incriminate American Soldiers. Of course there is not and in fact the story that is written does not jive, with what people who are not ballistic experts here can easlily see. So the alternative for those who oppose the war and oppose American brainwashed jack booted soldiers who have oil and bloodlust for women and children running through their devil blooded veins is that even if they didnt do it in this case that does not mean that they are not doing it. These are the most ignorant arguments I have seen yet on this subject.

What has happened here is that someone has taken some pictures where there is no evidence of American soldiers (or anyone for that fact) and created a story to suit their spin on a war they do not approve of and used their bs to rally those who are like minded and even when there is no proof whatsoever, except for some keen observations that are contrary to the story, it changes to well it might not be so here but you know it is happening. No I dont know that it is happening all I see here is some anti-american propaganda.

reply to post by jerico65


..........and Sonya I just want to beat you to the punch, if you are like the people who just want to attack those who would defend their country and country men and women from unfounded accusations, what you are going to say next is "It just goes to show how people like Birch Tree and Jer 65 are, all they care about is if Americans Soldiers didn't do it, they dont care about the lives of these Iraqi people." I say that because that is the next exercise of dumb logic that will have to be executed in order to keep this bologna thread going, even though that is not what this thread is about, it is called a red herring perpetuation. That is to continue an argument that has failed into ineuendo, that states just because we cant prove it in this case, the fact that the argument exists mean it must be true somewhere and if that does not workit is continued by attacking on a persons character for actually being on the otherside of the argument. It is called a pseudo argument for a reason, because it is a false argument meaning the opposite of truth not a part of reality. In many schools of devbate if you bring a pseudo argument to the table you will not even be allowed to be heard.
Now I am sure Jerico as well as myself will tell you we do not always agree with the actions of our government and I will tell you that things like this could happen in a war, the point is in this war when any violation by our forces has occurred it has been on network news and the individuals have been punished. So I am not seeing that here and I do not doubt that with a Presidential Candidacy in the ropes that a democratic group of some sort would not make light of a story like this as part of an exit strategy, all life is precious but wars happen and they will continue to happen. We dont have to like it but it is reality, at least the reality of now.

[edit on 3-7-2008 by birchtree]

[edit on 3-7-2008 by birchtree]

sick video. 2 questions though (i dunno if answered already)
1. shouldn't there be more blood?
2. why didn't the vehicles exploded? (just like in the movies)

they need not shoot those kids man

reply to post by beastamerica


I will take on these questions

1. No there does not have to be more blood, first off we do not know if these bodies were moved out of the vehicles or from their original resting place, Second of all once the parasympathetic nervous system kicks in it constricts blood to certain parts of the body and the sympathetic nervous system may not have time to return to normal if oxygen to the brain is cut off and that person dies prior to the body returning to its normal mode of operation in the the sympathetic nervous system. Another thing is where the entry and exit of the wounds take place..ie did the bullets hit arteries and organs, did they lodge in the body or pass through and etc.

2. It is very rarely that vehicles actually explode for small arms fire, the right conditions have ot occur and often if anything they will catch on fire and burn, Another thing here is if this so-called convoy of two vehicles was pelted from above with a helicopter especially an AH-64 Apache it would be swiss cheese, it provb would have exploded and there would not be that much of a body to look at, if lets say considering Americans are accuse it was a troops carring Black Hawk with lets say a mounted chain gun or perhaps a swing sling door gunner it would depend on the caliber of weapon and RPMs of the weapon being used but it would not be much better and I just dont see these folks getting out of the cars in the first place. That does not mean it could not happen but I would expect to see a lot more damage to bodies and injury to the tissue itself.

You are right those children should not have been killed, especially under the circumstances explained.

Well regarding the helicopter story, after watching the video again there does not appear to be ANY bullet holes in the roof if the car, or any noticeable bullet holes on the hood.

Does that mean the story is a complete lie? Well I don't see why if they were going to make a story up they would need to involve a helicopter.

To me, the damage and wounds inflicted we at ground level by low velocity small arms fire. A helicopter gunship packs some heavy #. I have seen the effect of heavy machine gun fire. When a projectile of this size hits a soft target, such as a human, it rips it apart. A team member of mine was hit by a high velicity 7.62mm round. It mushed his head like jelly. I had his brains all over my uniform. So, you can imagine what a round from a helicopter gunship would do.

I think that in this case, the US Army had no involvement whatsoever. Please, Ladies and Gentlemen of ATS, let us get all the proof before we blame these troops. They have a hard enough job as it is. They do not know friend from foe. We had similar problems in Northern Ireland. These guys are doing the best they can and they are getting murdered for it.

Please, give them a break.