Grammar Equals Intelligence?

... now that my friend is a good point and one for debate even.
I think it "is" fair to judge someone's intelligence by how much money "they" "earn".
You can't be stupid and make money. ( notice how I said "earn" not some lottery winner or a Paris Hilton.)
There are plenty of anecdotal exceptions to this, but generally I think we can say that it takes a smart person to make, earn, accumulate money.
(well at least it is just as good of a measuring tool as anything else we have but it is more so than spelling or grammar.)

reply to post by Res Ipsa


Nah you're wrong mate, it takes a person devoid of any compassion.

COLUMBUS , Ohio – It doesn't take a rocket scientist to make a lot of money, according to new research.

A nationwide study found that people of below average intelligence were, overall, just about as wealthy as those in similar circumstances but with higher scores on an IQ test.
Jay Zagorsky

Furthermore, a number of extremely intelligent people stated they had gotten themselves into financial difficulty...

“Intelligence is not a factor for explaining wealth. Those with low intelligence should not believe they are handicapped, and those with high intelligence should not believe they have an advantage.”

Source

It's not intelligence it's choice, or choices...
If you think you're intelligent because you have made money you'd better think again...lol Any dumbass can make money, those that survive in poverty are the ones that get my respect (for what it's worth).

To me someone who works only to make money is a pretty sad and empty person. Those that do the work they enjoy are usually happier, no mater how much they make. Life is too short to spend it exploiting others, and then thinking you're superior somehow for doing it. I don't believe we were put on this earth to just make our bank accounts bigger than our neighbours.
When you step back and look in at society you realise how stupid, pointless, degrading and soul destroying it all is.

People say they worked hard to make their money, well the Nazi's worked hard at what they did too...

Oh and someone owes some slaves a big check, who really did all the work that created Amerikas wealth?

Ooops did I get off topic? Sry...You could always pick apart my grammar lol.

For me it depends on what the poster is trying to say. If the person is insulting someone/something, then any poor grammar or spelling mistakes makes them look foolish, in my opinion. And I'm only talking to the extreme-- a few misspelled words and grammar mistakes aren't a big deal because it happens to the best of us. (chances are you'll find a few in this post, lol)

But I actually had someone write, in respone to one of my posts (on a different forum), " i hate stuped people."

Grammar does not equal intellegence, the way grammar is taught is a parrot type indocrintation. I have in my life met intelligent people, who did not have perfect grammar, these people taught me a thing or two.

Different people have different types of intelligence/knowledge. Some people have academic smarts, some have streetwise smarts and some have intuitive smarts.

In short focusing on one subject such as grammar as a insight to intellegence is asinine and those who believe in this rubbish have a very limited outlook on this thing we call life.


[edit on 20-6-2008 by djaybeetoo]

My spelling and grammar is shocking, yet my IQ is high and I excel in other things like Mathematics.

So I don’t think bad spelling and grammar has anything to do with intelligence, it’s just something some people are good at and some people are bad at.

If you gave me a choice of having great grammar or great Math skills, I’d choose the Math!

I don’t mind if posts are grammatically incorrect or if people mix up the “there/their/they’re” words or “where/were/wear”, as long as I can actually understand the post and as long as it’s not written in “text message” form then it’s ok.

The simple solution for people like me who have bad spelling and grammar, just type the post in MS Word first, do spell check, once it’s all good then post.

Mike

From a possible alien point of view, as in extraterrestrial, I would be ashamed if they tried to fit in on this forum and were constantly corrected by some drunk that has perfect grammer, but, can't drive. (or fly)

Besides, most people appear to just skip my posts or have me on ignore anyway. I skip many because it's too much to read. But, mostly because it's too hard to read as a chore.

Some will be gracious enough to say how good your grammer is for someone in your condition. But, at least they responded. Um, thanks...I think.

U2U....code 13 or whatever. There does seem to be a clique here. Maybe I'm just paranoid? (No, you just can't read.)

[edit on 20-6-2008 by aleon1018]

Completely agree with the original OP. People have a penchant for various things, and often those specializations don't translate across to different areas. I myself have a touch of dislexia, and I can't remember the last time I made a post without having to go over it several times and correct it, in spite of a fairly high typing speed. Does that make me a lesser person? Well, who knows. I don't care if it does.

My physics prof. in college...... his writing was awful. His manner of relaying information was really, pretty poor. He KNEW his stuff, and if one were patient and attentive enough, you'd eventually glean the real message he was relaying, but he was not what I would characterize as a natural teacher. To hear him speak, you might think him a half bubble off of plumb. Still, I learned a LOT from him, once I learned to listen to his particular style.

No, I don't think proper grammer, usage, spelling translates directly into intelligence.

Originally posted by argentus
Completely agree with the original OP. People have a penchant for various things, and often those specializations don't translate across to different areas. I myself have a touch of dislexia, and I can't remember the last time I made a post without having to go over it several times and correct it, in spite of a fairly high typing speed. Does that make me a lesser person? Well, who knows. I don't care if it does.

It doesn't make you a lesser person in the slightest, Sir. I'm not dyslexic and I still have to go over my posts several times and correct them (and I still make loads of mistakes). Don't worry about it. Grammar doesn't necessarily equate to intelligence. There are people with great grammatical capabilities yet they're as thick as a #ing chair. There are also people who really struggle with grammar yet are massively intelligent.

I think we as humans try and create too many rules, as if the world were that easy to understand. "Oh, if you've got nice grammar you're intelligent. If you haven't, you're dumb."

As if it were so simple...

I'm not sure if it equals intelligence, but I think it looks better.

reply to post by Pandapple


While I agree that grammar isn't everything when it comes to getting an idea across (getting across content and context is more important) I think using proper grammar is very important.

It makes people take you seriously when you present yourself in a manner that lets them know you have knowledge on the subject you're talking about. To use sloppy grammar just seems like you're wasting your time and their's.

Now I know in today's hypertext world of the internet that sometimes you don't take the time to check the spelling but it's distracting when you come across simple mistakes that would have taken only a few minutes to proofread.

The written word is a powerful weapon when wielded correctly. It is also a vanishing art in the digital world. It should be taken seriously in my opinion.

reply to post by SixKiloKowboy


I can agree with that. I do definitely think it's important, especially in this climate of "dumbing down," but I don't agree that grammar necessarily equates to intelligence (you didn't say that, I know, but that's what this thread is about).

it seems as though some of you are implying that using proper grammar and having meaningful life-experiences (aka street smarts) are mutually exclusive.

I don't look down on someone because of their grammar/spelling/punctuation, but at the same time, it certainly does not establish much rapport right off the bat either. Just like when I meet someone that has an exceptional vocabulary, I don't assume for an instant that they are therefore ignorant to urban survival, creative thinking or etc.

Learning to spell, form paragraphs, utilize punctuation and etc. do not mean you are some kind of robot taking orders and following laws. It means you have a great deal of respect for communication, and for the other parties involved. Without maintaining some form of standards for communication, we would have no record of human history whatsoever.

reply to post by Pandapple


There is AT LEAST a correlation between grammar and intelligence; smart people don't speak/write like morons. Fact.

the plpoee taht hrap on grmamar are splimy oevr-csinoamnetpg for htier own fgilnees of iudaanecqy > it’s a way to eedf the ego wichh awalys has to be dnoe at atenhor eespnxe > and wehn i say ego i'm rrieenfrg to eiatitgocsl tuohhgt patretns > the thhugot ptatnres are lneared beaoihvr and are uesd to eedf off negviate eengry > tehy are eengry vmrepias taht amtptet to ctraee nvageite eergny in oethrs to reeplisnh teihr own dpteeeld croase sesflih ntaveige eregny > the eitrne nvigetae ptah is ninthog mroe tahn a pimrayd scmhee whree tshoe on top feed on toshe on bttoom > tohse on boottm feed on ecah oehtr > the scjbuet of tihs thraed is jsut a somtypm of the chocie to tkae taht ptah > i wrtoe all tihs smlpiy to eliapxn the mtioaovtin binehd scuh thigns taht seem igclloail to orhtes > uannddneitsrg laed to aatcpencce > aetccncpae of oehrts eevn thsoe on the drak ptah is the ohetr ptah > the beacnlad usdaitrnednng actpecing anpripcateig ptah > konw tehm by tiher fiturs > knwiong the mottoiaivn and uesnnaditnrdg it and aneitcpcg it eunrse taht one deos not gvie off the ngaviete eerngy taht is dlnietpeg to the egnrey feild > dtoeplein of the ergeny felid laeds to mnay iessus > heatlh iuesss and poyascglcohil isesus and the ilaiitbny to craonttcene and olrveal msaiale


the people that harp on grammar are simply over-compensating for their own feelings of inadequacy > it's a way to feed the ego which always has to be done at another expense > and when i say ego i referring to egotistical thought patterns > the thought patterns are learned behavior and are used to feed off negative energy > they are energy vampires that attempt to create negative energy in others to replenish their own depleted coarse selfish negative energy > the entire negative path is nothing more than a pyramid scheme where those on top feed on those on bottom > those on bottom feed on each other > the subject of this thread is just a symptom of the choice to take that path > i wrote all this simply to explain the motivation behind such things that seem illogical to others > understanding lead to acceptance > acceptance of others even those on the dark path is the other path > the balanced understanding accepting appreciating path > know them by their fruits > knowing the motivation and understanding it and accepting it ensure that one does not give off the negative energy that is depleting to the energy field > depletion of the energy field leads to many issues > health issues and psychological issues and the inability to concentrate and overall malaise

[edit on 20-6-2008 by Cons Piracy]

The use of good grammar is not necessarily a true indication of intelligence. For most people, it is a sign of laziness. One can be relatively stupid and still have great grammatical prowess if one just remember and applies the rules of grammar.

However, the English language has rules. It's interesting how so many people compare their deficiencies in English to their strengths in math. However, mathematics has rules just like a language. If you do not follow them, you get an incorrect answer. There is no difference with a language. If you're too lazy to remember the rules and apply them, then you look much like someone who could not complete a relatively simple math problem. The application of the rules can be just as challenging with sentence structure as it can be with calculus.

Regardless of the actual correlation between the proper use of grammar and intelligence, the fact remains that poor grammar is perceived as a sign of poor education, laziness and/or the lack of intelligence. It doesn't matter how warm and fuzzy you feel by patting yourself on the back over your poor spelling or your inability to properly use a semicolon, the fact remains that you are perceived in a negative light versus one who possesses a decent command of the language's rules. At one point or another, you will be judged on this whether you know it or not. This is even more prevalent in the business world.

I do know the basic rules of English. When I am in doubt, I use reference materials and grammatical handbooks. Unfortunately for all of you self-proclaimed "math geniuses", the opportunity for you to solve complex trigonometry ("Don't forget to show your work!") doesn't come along very often, but displaying your ignorance of English does. Check your reference materials if in doubt - it only takes a minute, and you can take pride in your ability to succinctly express yourself through your writing.

When I read a post and it's filled with errors (spelling and punctuation), I usually skip it. Consciously or not, as with many people, if you can't write with a modicum of intelligence, then what you have to express probably isn't that intelligent, either.

Like it or not, it's the way of the real world.

Also, people must know that some of us, like me, did not learn english as a primary language

Most Americans only know one language anyway, why not try to be good at it?

I remember when I was young, my parents taught me not to swear because it sounds unintelligent. They didn't harp on how it was sinful or offensive, they just alluded to the fact that there so many better words out there to use. I must say I agree.

Whatever happened to poetry in prose?

Show me an arrogant individual that believes he is intelligent simply because he speaks proper English and I'll show you his fellow co-worker that speaks and writes broken English, yet they are both professionally equal.

This could be the case---if the people were not living in an English speaking country.

In reality, high literacy and proficiency in one's native language is always correlated strongly with professional success in the majority of endeavors.

Now, a few have more than just proficiency, but an actual artistic talent and fluidity, words which don't just communicate but delight. These are called "writers".

[edit on 21-6-2008 by mbkennel]

Individuals who have strong grammer skills tend to be the same people (not always) who really have trouble with complicated concepts, abstract thinking etc, etc...

A mind bound too deeply in rules lives by rules, particularly in a forum like this, which requires people to think about nontraditional concepts I don't find the highly analytical and structured mind to be very open.

Also most Grammer come backs are just people who have nothing valid to retort and rather choose to attack something utterly unrelated.

As for myself, I just don't have the time to go over every post, I'm highly dubious of people who take the time in a forum to "present" thier material so efficently, the phrase "get a life" comes to mind, I like to come in and debate, but I write as I speak or think, spell checking and the rest is a fair annoyance, not trying to get published just enjoy a lively debate.

If grammar equaled intelligence, than a dictionary would be the highest form of intelligence on the planet.


We might stop to reflect on what pieces are missing from the puzzle as we gaze in awe upon our lord high dictionary, and await it's magnificent guidance.