Japanese invent car that runs on water

Originally posted by rjmelter
After watching this video from you tube....... www.youtube.com...

I became angered. Why are many people so greedy, and why will soo many do nothing?

so what are you doing?

I am angered more by the people who pretend to care and do nothing, than those who don't care and do nothing.

Originally posted by gormly

I am angered more by the people who pretend to care and do nothing, than those who don't care and do nothing.

I'll second that. The internet is full of people "getting angry" about whatever then doing nothing apart from going along with it and ranting on internet forums.


Anyway, just had a another look at the water powered car claims and it's clearly just running from a battery charged from the mains:

The demonstration vehicle was a Takeoka Reva[7], a small electric car whose manufacturer claims a range of 85 km running on its standard set of batteries, which take 8 hours to charge off the mains at 100 V on a 15 A circuit. A charge of up to 12 kWh for a range of 85 km suggests that the micro car draws about 40 times more power than the claimed rating of the fuel cell. This would indicate that during the test drive the fuell cell could have contributed little more than 2% of the power used, the remainder being drawn from the previously charged batteries.

2% power boost? Likely to be just measurement error. The car is certainly not running off water, but a battery charged from electricity generated from fossil fuels.

Agreed. Like I said

WATER IS NOT FUEL. Everyone who is a modern man should etch this fact on his thick skull as to accept reality that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

The reason these 'water fuelled car' scams exist because there are dumb dumb dumb woo-woo woo woo believers of faith, they only need parrot like rantings of their peers as proof!

These 'snake-oil' hoaxes have happened again and again and again and dumb people always baught them again and again and again.

WATER IS NOT FUEL. If you think water is fuel, simply put, you are DUMB.

When will people realize how stupid they are? Oh yeah, I guess stupid people can't see stupid. LOLOLOLOL





[edit on 17-6-2008 by Macrotus]

reply to post by Dubyakadubla


hello guys/girls I havent been reading all the posts about this subject but Im gonna post it anyway.
this sounds remarclebly similar to JOE CELL . this cell also goes on water and it has been used in australia for decades now. I'm suprised that somebody here didnt notice the resembly with that.
anyway if you are interested more just type in the search bar: Joe cell and you will found thousand of articles.
p.s. sorry about my bad english

reply to post by Macrotus


You're back at it again. May I redirect you to my previous response. It is not about belief, the technology is here and in several incarnations, the most visable of which is the Honda FCX. Sure, the corporate world probably wants to keep people away from the direct energy source which is to be hidden in a veil of ignorance, but the reality is there is plenty of energy in water, it is probably the best fuel there is, even if in a worse case scenario you need to use solar powered electrolosis to seperate it into it's core gases.

Or are you going to spout more nonsense and say there is no energy in hydrogen and oxygen gas?

reply to post by Macrotus


Water is not fuel. Hydrogen IS fuel. Water is H2O. For the stupid ones, the H is hydrogen. The only thing slowing this process from being a reality is the global economic ramifications to an immediate switch to alternative fuels. You could even try going to Hondas web site and reaserching the fact that they have a home hydrogen station that produces hydrogen to refuel your vehicle, and power your house. One day soon, you might even be able to learn new things by closing that pie hole of yours and look around a bit.

So how do you get the hydrogen from H2O in the first place wothout external input, genius?

Anyone who has a rather basic grab of thermodynamics can attest that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Scam artist : Water is fuel

Believer of faith : Squaaawwwkkk! Water is fuel! Squaaawwwkkk!

Scam artist : You can get Hydrogen out of H20

Believer of faith : Squaaawwwkkk! You can get Hydrogen. Squaaawwwkkk!

Scam artist : I'm stupid

Believer of faith : Squaaawwwkkk! I'm stupid. Squaaawwwkkk!

Scam artist : My money is yours.

Believer of faith : Squaaawwwkkk! My money is yours. Squaaawwwkkk!





[edit on 17-6-2008 by Macrotus]

reply to post by Macrotus


It's done through solar powere electrolosis. Even if you're right, and the only technology uses more energy than it produces, it dosen't matter, as you're paying 0 for the sun and you end up with a usuable fuel from water. This is the Honda system. And solar cells have had amazing developments in recent days, they are now possible by printing techniques, which greatly cheapens fabrication.

So there you have it, a usuable fuel, from water with working economics using proven technology that is currently available, if still low volume.

And this is without the actual direct method, which, as was alluded to by AllisOne, I am pretty sure is also possible because, well, It comes up on the news about every 6 months now, and has been shown on various documentaries. Water is fuel, get used to the idea. And if by chance you do work for the oil industry, I would change midterm plans and think about new career opportunities.

Originally posted by Macrotus
So how do you get the hydrogen from H2O in the first place wothout external input, genius?

The idea is that they've developed very efficient ways of extracting the hydrogen.

For minimal input, you get a whole bunch of hydrogen out, which is good

reply to post by sty


I remember reading that a Phillipine man "invented" the water powered car several years ago. I might still have that article somewhere...anyway, the article said that a Japanese company looked at the car but didn't want it because they couldn't make big money on it.
Sapph

Originally posted by theendisnear69
"Well their sick of gas prices now huh? Well now we are going to make them sick of water prices muahahahahaha".

So how will they put a meter on rain water you can collect in a barrel?

So how will they put a meter on you dipping a bucket into a river, lake etc?

So you get some mineral sediments in the bottom of your fuel cell... seems to me easy enough to install a filter that you change like the air filter or oil filter in your car... you DO know you have to change those right?

There are many ways to separated hydrogen and oxygen from water electrolysis is one way and true that uses electricity..

But if you rub water molecules together you can produce electricity

Just step out into the next thunderstorm and see

It amazes me that people actually say in this thread that we will run out of water because of this...

Look up any electrolysis experiment a car battery... two wires two glass jars and a bucket of water all you need...

Separate the water and hold a match over the hydrogen collector... you get one heck of a BANG... look at the residue WATER

So you split water with electricity, get hydrogen and oxygen... when hydrogen 'burns' (oxidizes) you get energy and WATER as the 'exhaust'

I would use sea water and collect the residue... because sea water is full of minerals especially GOLD conservative estimates put10 ppt of gold in seawater. (Sea water contains about 0.1-2 mg/tonne of gold dissolved in water (average 1 mg/tonne).)

So at the current price of gold.... hehehe

I wonder if those who say we will run out of water with this work for an oil company

Edit to add....

BTW when iron 'rusts' it is actually 'burning' albeit very slowly... take a piece of steel wool light it with a match... and stick it into the other collector jar... the one with the oxygen...

See iron burn brightly

Now remember that H is lighter than air so keep the jar openng down. O is heavier so you can turn it over and stick the burning steel wool into it...

Small scale this is safe and very impressive if done right... don't get greedy though... we don't want you doing a Hindenburg in your garage

Here is a basic setup





OH and BTW the 'salts' or dissolved minerals actually make the reaction happen faster that distilled water

[edit on 18-6-2008 by zorgon]

I ran the japanese web site through the Babblefish translator.

The only significant facts aside from an english translation of the not very technical explaination of operation was that the cell has a 4.5 year expected life.

They do not explain how they crack the water into hydrogen and oxygen but a membrain is used, as would be expected to seperate them post hydrocracking.

Originally posted by Macrotus
Agreed. Like I said

WATER IS NOT FUEL. Everyone who is a modern man should etch this fact on his thick skull as to accept reality that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

The reason these 'water fuelled car' scams exist because there are dumb dumb dumb woo-woo woo woo believers of faith, they only need parrot like rantings of their peers as proof!

[edit on 17-6-2008 by Macrotus]

You obviously stand behind the second law of thermodynamics.
Unfortunately for your position on this subject, it does not apply to chemical reactions. It is a physics law not a chemistry law.

Please try explaining to a stick of dynamite that it cannot possibly explode. Since no one charged it up with more power than was used to light the fuse.

What is currently lacking in electrolosys is the ability to seperate the atoms with less power than is obtained from them. Since they bond simultaneously the second law of thermodynamics could only require the equivalent amount of energy to seperate them as a minimum.

Have a nice day.

Oh, and I do believe the Japanese invention is a hoax. But I hope otherwise.

Honestly, some of you lot need to get a basic science education.

Water is not a fuel. Hydrogen is. To produce hydrogen you have to add energy to water. This is not 100% effecient process. So when you burn the hydrogen you will always get back less energy than you put in to split out the hydrogen from the water.

You might not like that, but it's a fact.

If you are using solar panels to split out the hydrogen then the fuel is sunlight, not water. If you then collect hydrogen into a cell from this process then it's effectively a battery - charging a normal battery from the solar panels could well be more effecient, as you aren't wasting energy on electrolysis.

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
Water is not a fuel. Hydrogen is. To produce hydrogen you have to add energy to water. This is not 100% effecient process.

I think you need a basic science class, or maybe you should experiment before you believe what people tell you.

You do NOT "add energy to water to produce hydrogen". Actually the hydrogen is already there! You only need energy to separate the oxygen from the hydrogen, to make the hydrogen usable. The energy needed to separate hydrogen from oxygen is far less then the energy that hydrogen makes when combusted. Over-unity.

reply to post by zorgon


Oh b.t.w. zorgon. You got it buddy.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by ALLis0NE]

I just want to take some mystery out of the technology involved with the MEA, (membrane electrode assembly), which lies at the heart of Genepaks fuel cell.

The process is not exclusive as it is being developed all over the world it is just Genepaks application that has grabbed the news at this point.

The MEA is the component that splits water into Hydrogen and Oxygen and is known as a "catalytic" chemical process.

There are many different materials that can be used for this and the one that Genpak uses may be their particular little secret as the performance of this unit dictates the output.

Because of this there are many companies that are putting research funding into these materials and one of the first market pressures was durability, claims have been made now that this concern has been solved so I would posit that the next goal will be efficiency, ie greater output.

News headlines for Genepaks announcement is a little creative but essentially true, if no other power source is used in charging the batteries as this seems to be the function of their generator, ie a battery charger that uses Hydrogen from water to generate electricity.

Chemical catalytic Hydrogen production may not be the answer to a Hydrogen based economy so electrolysis may be the next step if production efficiencies can be proved to be viable.

Frankly I feel it matters not about claims of over unity at this time as long as we have an alternative to our fossil fuel hungary energy needs, clearly science is just begining to apply itself to the hurdles of production but there does seem to be some progress.

Some links to sources.

www.pfce.net...

www.sciencedirect.com... rsion=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=e2f1a627f64d687827419f3ce9ca7fa8

www.transportation.anl.gov...

reply to post by Macrotus


squaawk....everything that there will ever be known is written down in a book already....squaaawk.

Squaaawk... I have such a little mind that I am afraid to expand my knowlege for fear of forgetting my name....squaawk

close your mouth and grow a brain.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE

The energy needed to separate hydrogen from oxygen is far less then the energy that hydrogen makes when combusted. Over-unity.

Prove it.

Originally posted by mikellmikell
Hydrogen for one you will never see in your automobile because of storage problems and it's hazzardous by products. Yes water once thru the system will be controlled by the EPA so what do you do with it??

I am curious as to what 'hazardous' by products you get from burning Hydrogen? seeing as you were an engineer... you could explain this?

Might increase the humidity a little to be sure... and might make the roads rain slick... but hardly hazardous waste...

I do conventions here in Las Vegas.. a couple of years back I set up Shell Oil's new Hydrogen pump... they promised a "hydrogen Highway" up both coasts in 10 years and already have the first station operating in Washington DC...

The safety issue has been solved... carbon fiber tanks that do not explode on contact, nickel foam to 'absorb' the hydrogen...

But surely as an 'fuel system engineer' you would know this yes?

Here is Bush filling up one of the Whitehouse staff cars that run on Hydrogen... seems its good enough for the Whitehouse ... but YOU need to shell out big bucks for oil In the video below you will see the Military is working on converting HumVees to run on water and/or gas




I have a water torch... I use it for jewelery work... pour in water plug it in to a standard wall socket and you get hydrogen and oxygen to weld with..

Watch this video... HHO welders have some very unique properties

The people who call this a Hoax are most likely working for the OIL THUGS



What pisses me off is here we are talking about the Japanese 'breakthrough" when we have our own people in the USA have already done this...

What the hell is it going to take to break through the IGNORANCE and get USA back on top again?

And France has come up with the Air Car at the same time an Australian developed a similar engine... runs on compressed AIR The Australian one is quieter as its a rotary engine...

All these reports are from the BBC To bad American media is a bunch of Morons...





Air Car from France (1 of 2)



Air Car from Australia (2 of 2)




Wake up America... before WE become the next Third World Country

BTW anyone know what happened to Beerguy? He designed a hydrogen fuel cell and we posted it on Pegasus and I have not heard from him since... anyone that knew him? The problem with avatars is you don't have a way to trace someone when they are gone...



[edit on 18-6-2008 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon

BTW anyone know what happened to Beerguy? He designed a hydrogen fuel cell and we posted it on Pegasus and I have not heard from him since... anyone that knew him? The problem with avatars is you don't have a way to trace someone when they are gone...

I do not know of this guy but this thread may or may not be of interest to you, not a fuel cell but still something different, I have not delved deeply into the design, you might want to get matyas to look it over.

www.abovetopsecret.com...