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Originally posted by wytworm
reply to post by jsobecky
I wouldn't wrap myself in the US Flag as I was brought up with very specific guidelines on how you treat the flag. I am disappointed you feel otherwise.
Originally posted by wytworm
Your attitude on the org is one i encounter frequently by those who confuse the model with the execution. The premise of the org is sound, I think there are some concerns about its execution, yes but as Americans we do not quit because things are hard right? Why not just fix it?
Originally posted by wytworm
Laziness? In this case I would imagine it gets pretty hot for Human Rights abusers to be involved with such a group. I certainly wouldn't want to represent the USA with its current stance of having no stance on human rights.
The same day as the announcement from the State Department, 56 members of the House of Representatives called for an investigation into the possibility that the Bush Administration may have committed war crimes in its advocacy for more intense interrogation techniques against detainees.
The model fails because it fails to take into account the most important element: human nature...because of human nature.
You are also making a mistake by implying that dropping out of this org means the US has no stance on Human Rights. That does not follow; it is a false conclusion.
the leadership position is not the equivalent between a country like Sudan and a country like the US. Who is better positioned than the US to provide leadership? The UK? Russia? China?
You seem to fail, or ignore the fact that
I am sorry to agree with jsobecky,
.
I really hate replying to your posts because i am not in 100% disagreement with you
Originally posted by SaviorComplex
For the record, for those knee-jerks bashing the United States for quitting the UNHRC, you should know that the US was never part of the UNHRC. It held observer status, and had no voice in the the council. It held no vote on the issues. The US simply ended it's observer status.
[edit on 10-6-2008 by SaviorComplex]
Originally posted by Quazga
What we want to see is the US taking the lead in securing human rights around the world. Why? Because that is what our country was founded on... "inalienable rights endowed by our creator".
Originally posted by wytworm
Pretend either or all of them are -- the point you are failing to acknowledge is that no one is excused. We are all equally criminal. What to do? In your model, nothing.
Originally posted by pavil
It truly baffles me that you are more concerned with the U.S. leaving the Council, where it was only an observer, when members of the council are able to effectively ignore another nations (Sudan) genocide of it's own civillians. Humans rights??? The UNHRC is a very bad joke. That you seem to laugh along with the UNHRC disgusts me.
Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Originally posted by Quazga
What we want to see is the US taking the lead in securing human rights around the world. Why? Because that is what our country was founded on... "inalienable rights endowed by our creator".
And the UNHRC is obviously not seeking to secure human rights around the world. All indications are that it is actively seeking to supress human-rights. It is pointless to be on the UNHRC or attempt to change it, and the experience of the Western nations on the UNHRC shows this. They are consistently overwhelmed by the nations that want to both seek to supress human rights and cover-up the supression.
Originally posted by Quazga
Can you please cite references for the "indications are that it is actively seeking to suppress human rights?"
....Could you show me something which would persuade me otherwise? I'm not a UN bigot in any way (pro or con), and I'm not talking about the UN in general here, just the Human Rights Commission.
The HRC was an awful joke as well.
On May 4, 2004, United States ambassador Sichan Siv walked out of the Commission following the uncontested election of Sudan to the commission, calling it an “absurdity” in light of Sudan’s ethnic cleansing in the Darfur region.
As the UN Human Rights Council’s inaugural year comes to a close, the Council is meeting this week in Geneva to determine some of the fundamental procedures that will be used by the body in years to come. A number of member countries have proposed that country-specific “special procedures”—the special experts, representatives and rapporteurs who investigate human rights abuses in particular countries—be abolished, particularly those assigned to Cuba, Belarus, Burma and North Korea. The system of special procedures had been one of the few effective mechanisms of the UN Commission on Human Rights in responding to urgent human rights issues both thematically and regionally and prescribing avenues for improvement.
Other procedures determining the Council’s future activities will also be voted on this week. In particular, the structure of the Universal Periodic Review (UPR), which was mandated by the resolution that established the Council last year, will be established. Under discussion is whether outside experts and nongovernmental organizations will be able to play a key role in the review; currently, documents provided by the state in question appear to comprise the bulk of the evidence used for the review.
Originally posted by Quazga
Can you please cite references for the "indications are that it is actively seeking to suppress human rights?"
The Commission noted that its report on the conflict would be incomplete without fully investigating both sides, but that "the Commission is not entitled, even if it had wished, to construe [its charter] as equally authorizing the investigation of the actions by Hezbollah in Israel," as the Council had explicitly prohibited it from investigating the actions of Hezbollah.
"At the United Nations, censuring Israel has become something of a habit, while Hamas's terror is referred to in coded language or not at all.
The resolution itself at first calls for freedom of religion, but then goes on to say that people must speak “with responsibility”, and freedoms of speech may be limited in areas regarding “public health and morals” or “respect for religions and beliefs”.
Eighteen of the 19 states dubbed "the worst of the worst" by the monitoring group Freedom House (Israel is not on the list) were ignored by the council in its first year. One mission was dispatched to examine the situation in Darfur. When it returned with a report criticizing the Sudanese government, the council refused to endorse it or accept its recommendations.
The regime of Gen. Omar al-Bashir, which is responsible for at least 200,000 deaths in Darfur, didn't just escape any censure. Sudan was a co-sponsor on behalf of the Arab League of the latest condemnations of Israel